Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[700UW]

You dont have to hear anything, you can read it, or you can choose to ignore, but the bottom line is they voted it in and have to live with the consequences, you nor I dont.

 

[737823]

Company and concession loving boy is proud of this agreement, the IAM gets to begin collecting dues from the sCO ATW. The IAM will bring the same garbage to US and eventually WN.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Are you talking about Jetjob, Socplat13, or both?

 

[737823]

Are you talking about Jetjob, Socplat13, or both?

Nope the former stock clerk at USAIR that boasts about pathetic IAM agreements and thinks its a badge of honor to usher in unprecedented concessions.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Glad to see you keep posting lies and cant stick to the topic.

 

[Kev3188]

Nope the former stock clerk at USAIR that boasts about pathetic IAM agreements and thinks its a badge of honor to usher in unprecedented concessions.

Josh

 
 
How does noting that UA people will now have to live under this agreement equate to thinking it's a "badge of honor to usher in unprecedented concessions?"

 

[700UW]

Nope the former stock clerk at USAIR that boasts about pathetic IAM agreements and thinks its a badge of honor to usher in unprecedented concessions.

Josh

So now you are calling the UA/CO employees pathetic, because they voted it in?
 
Go back to your bridge.

 

[WorldTraveler]

How does noting that UA people will now have to live under this agreement equate to thinking it's a "badge of honor to usher in unprecedented concessions?"

so, it was ok to say how bad the agreement was before the vote but now that it has occurred and you and Tim lost and 700 et al now have to live with yet one more failure of labor to provide the job protection that you said unions are so good at doing, it is Josh who is disconnected from reality?

Seems to me that those of who have continually said that the labor movement doesn't get it are being vindicated each and every day.

And I can assure you that there will be cuts in UA operations announced before the first retro check that is supposed to be part of this CBA is even issued.

UA got what it needs in order to start cutting jobs as part of their integration process... and the same thing will happen with AA/US, no matter how long it takes.

The reason why DL has been able to limit job cuts to those who take packages and normal attrition is because DL quickly developed the financial strength and has made the right strategic choices to grow its business, something no other network carrier has yet done after their mergers.

It also didn't hurt that DL and NW merged right after both exited BK when many of the cost benefits were still present and using the benefits that were gained in BK. UA/CO and US/AA both lose some or part of that benefit. There are real business reasons why DL succeeded that other airlines can't duplicate... and unions have nothing to do with those reasons.

As much as you and others want to argue how much labor has done, the overwhelming evidence is that it is the success of the business that determines how well employees fare.

Perhaps AA can do that and UA will eventually but the evidence is not there that either airline can overcome the huge staffing overages and pay increases that are part of integrating a workforce.

 

[Kev3188]

so, it was ok to say how bad the agreement was before the vote but now that it has occurred and you and Tim lost and 700 et al now have to live with yet one more failure of labor to provide the job protection that you said unions are so good at doing, it is Josh who is disconnected from reality?

 
 

 
 
I realize that you're increasingly desperate to discredit some people on here, but even you can do better than this.
 
Yes, it is ok to call this agreement awful. It is regressive at best, IMO.
 
Yes, it is the UA/CO employees that will have to live with the effects of it, whatever they may be. 700's assessment may be unpopular- and a low information poster may equate that with absolving 141's leadership of blame- but when you distill it down, it's true. 
 
Yes, Josh's statement about 700 (and your feeble attempt to pile on) are disconnected with the reality facing UA/CO employees.
 
Carry on.

 

[saywhat]

so, it was ok to say how bad the agreement was before the vote but now that it has occurred and you and Tim lost and 700 et al now have to live with yet one more failure of labor to provide the job protection that you said unions are so good at doing, it is Josh who is disconnected from reality?

Seems to me that those of who have continually said that the labor movement doesn't get it are being vindicated each and every day.

And I can assure you that there will be cuts in UA operations announced before the first retro check that is supposed to be part of this CBA is even issued.

UA got what it needs in order to start cutting jobs as part of their integration process... and the same thing will happen with AA/US, no matter how long it takes.

The reason why DL has been able to limit job cuts to those who take packages and normal attrition is because DL quickly developed the financial strength and has made the right strategic choices to grow its business, something no other network carrier has yet done after their mergers.

It also didn't hurt that DL and NW merged right after both exited BK when many of the cost benefits were still present and using the benefits that were gained in BK. UA/CO and US/AA both lose some or part of that benefit. There are real business reasons why DL succeeded that other airlines can't duplicate... and unions have nothing to do with those reasons.

As much as you and others want to argue how much labor has done, the overwhelming evidence is that it is the success of the business that determines how well employees fare.

Perhaps AA can do that and UA will eventually but the evidence is not there that either airline can overcome the huge staffing overages and pay increases that are part of integrating a workforce.

I posted earlier about pilots agreeing to let some of their work go to express which in turn leads to a domino effect on other work groups. Flight attendants don't fly express, maintenance doesn't work on express and so on. You make some valid points but when there is signs of trouble in the industry I'll take a Union every day over Non-Union. In a DL station that had both DL and NW employees, DL beefed up hiring before the vote to get a no vote and since then has hired nothing but RR.
 
The answer has to start with pilots holding on to their work and then the unorganized in this industry have to be organized. If we continue down this path we will all be in trouble and no Union leader will be able to stop the hemorraging.

 

[737823]

What protections has the IAM championed for the affected employees? Just boarded a sUA flight and the service director and IAM shop steward said they full expect PVD will be contracted out soon. Security and piece of mind of an IAM contract! Better go to ORD/EWR/IAD to keep a job.

Josh

 

[john john]

they voted it in and have to live with the consequences, you nor I dont.

All agents in the industry will have to live with results of the contract UA IAM leadership put out there. You do know how bargaining negotiations works dont you

 

[WorldTraveler]

All agents in the industry will have to live with results of the contract UA IAM leadership put out there. You do know how bargaining negotiations works dont you

yet here again we are being told what unions can do while also noting that the current world's largest airline just pulled off a coup to cut its labor costs that is unparalleled by an airline outside of BK... and the majority of people voted for it because UA was willing to throw $100M or so around to get them to sign on....

that's a lot of money to receive at one time but UA has it.... but it is nothing compared to what those people will lose over time.

Democracy in action.

A perfect example of why labor fails to deliver anything of value to anyone who doesn't have a union and in reality harms the people it says it is helping.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Here we go again now we have to hear this for the next 5+ years

What did I lose?  I didn't lost anything and not even under your dopey new contract.  I presented a dissenting voice.  The loss will be to the membership and organized labor. Has nothing to do with me.   As bad as TA2 was, it was better than TA1.  TA2 was a result of the membership NOT listening to you, so the membership can thank themselves for securing another $3 per hour in 2016.  You wanted them to only make $23.85 in 2016 because TA1 was your contract.  TA2 had nothing to do with the leadership and everything to do with the rejection of TA1. 
 
Still, a cruddy contract with only 7 stations under scope. And you have no job protections that are any better than a normal reduction in force article.  To say otherwise is silly.

 

[john john]

What did I lose?  I didn't lost anything and not even under your dopey new contract.  I presented a dissenting voice.  The loss will be to the membership and organized labor. Has nothing to do with me.   As bad as TA2 was, it was better than TA1.  TA2 was a result of the membership NOT listening to you, so the membership can thank themselves for securing another $3 per hour in 2016.  You wanted them to only make $23.85 in 2016 because TA1 was your contract.  TA2 had nothing to do with the leadership and everything to do with the rejection of TA1. 
 
Still, a cruddy contract with only 7 stations under scope. And you have no job protections that are any better than a normal reduction in force article.  To say otherwise is silly.

I couldn’t agree more. I was referring to the never-ending voice of posters saying, “membership approved it”