Why Not Restore and More?

[The Goose]

To paraphrase a certain "Reverend": don't count your chikinz ..... til they've come home .... to roost!

To quote Soupy Sales (remember him?):

"Don't count your chickens before they're hatched - eat 'em."

 

[Bob Owens]

No, I profitted because others were willing to sell their stock for just over a dollar a share and I took that gamble. I've never denied that.

It recovered in large part because AA managed to impose more than $8 billion of concessions on the represented workgroups over five years.

Exactly, you bet on us getting screwed and and you profited as a result.

On top of that, you and the other AMTs are anything but the "average airline worker."Prior to the concessions, base pay was more than $70k plus the several thousands of 2.5 holiday pay you keep talking about plus whatever overtime you grabbed. Be very surprising if the average AA AMT W-2 showed much less than $90k.

Consider yourself suprised because even on my best year, working eveery holiday and all the OT that was profferd I've never earned near $90k. Our base pay was only at $70k for one year. Here on Long Island $80k is the median income.

Substantially more than many people earn.

We earn much less than similarly skilled profesions.

Back to the topic: Looks like revenue is going to take a dive, as today's news reveals that paid biz and first travel was way off in September compared to 2007:

SWA does quite well without Buisness or first class.

So even though oil is still dropping today (down to $54/bbl), airline stock prices are crashing even faster.

Revenue, revenue, revenue. Nearly $7 billion more with 24100 less employees. Even if revenue dropped by a couple of billion the huge decrease in fuel, equipment and employee costs would still leave the company able to restore our wages. The elimination of 24,000 employees cuts around $1.4 billion from the payroll.

 

[WeAAsles]

Revenue, revenue, revenue. Nearly $7 billion more with 24100 less employees. Even if revenue dropped by a couple of billion the huge decrease in fuel, equipment and employee costs would still leave the company able to restore our wages. The elimination of 24,000 employees cuts around $1.4 billion from the payroll.

Restore and more Bob. We all gave up 1.8. If we got 1.4 with 24,000 less employees how much would that be. Don't anyone be fooled for an instant. AA at the VERY LEAST can afford the restore.

 

[eolesen]

Let's see....

The stock market is down 44% year over year (thanks Pelosi/Reid led Congress...).

The bailout which was supposed to fix the economy has actually made things worse.

We have the most inexperienced presidential candidate ever to be elected coming into power, and based on his cabinet picks, it's starting to make David Dinkins' executive ability look good...

The alarmists are saying we're in a depression.

The optimists are calling it a correction.

The moderates are calling it a recession.

Retailers are closing their doors, Las Vegas tourism & service related industries are collapsing (there are several hotel projects which have simply stopped construction with the buildings half completed).

It's more and more likely that the auto industry (tied to some 5-10% of the working class jobs in America) is about to go thru in 12 months what the airline industry went thru in the past eight years. Just think how much of an impact that's going to have.

If unemployment hits 10 to 12% (about double what it is today), just how many people do you think are going to be thinking about hopping on a plane?


Yet you're still naive enough to believe there's going to be money left over to "restore and more"???


Honestly, I think you'll be lucky to get an extension of the current contract if the economy continues to tank.

 

[bigdawg52]

Let's see....

The stock market is down 44% year over year (thanks Pelosi/Reid led Congress...).

The bailout which was supposed to fix the economy has actually made things worse.

We have the most inexperienced presidential candidate ever to be elected coming into power, and based on his cabinet picks, it's starting to make David Dinkins' executive ability look good...

The alarmists are saying we're in a depression.

The optimists are calling it a correction.

The moderates are calling it a recession.

Retailers are closing their doors, Las Vegas tourism & service related industries are collapsing (there are several hotel projects which have simply stopped construction with the buildings half completed).

It's more and more likely that the auto industry (tied to some 5-10% of the working class jobs in America) is about to go thru in 12 months what the airline industry went thru in the past eight years. Just think how much of an impact that's going to have.

If unemployment hits 10 to 12% (about double what it is today), just how many people do you think are going to be thinking about hopping on a plane?


Yet you're still naive enough to believe there's going to be money left over to "restore and more"???


Honestly, I think you'll be lucky to get an extension of the current contract if the economy continues to tank.

Even though I am a union member, I believe in what you say. People on this board, mainly AMT'S always say the same thing. Restore and more. Anyone with any kind of education should realize that this will not happen(even with Obama).

Reality is this we are in a bad recession, soon to be depression, and yet people on this board want the world. I am a realist, I look at the economy and see exactly what we could possibly get with the variables at hand.

Load factor is dropping, fuel is dropping, flights are dropping(capacity) and so on. If you want me to get more into detail I can, but I think most get the jest.

I look at it this way, which may piss off some but so be it: We take a dollar an hour raise, this year, with the holidays going back to 2X, then next year, for us that have a job, we get a dollar and so on.

Basically what I am saying is this. ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY!!!!

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

eolesen said it. TWU should have locked in that offer AA made earlier this year. The more we sink into a prolonged economic crisis, the less money AA is going to make. You'll be amazed how quickly the offer turns from a little bump to an outright concessionary contract.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Awesome 8 years and no hourly raise after a 17.5 percent paycut
where do I sign

 

[Mr.Robot-tow]

It is to late now for that offer American offered the AMT's,as the TWU neg team rejected AA offer last night in Dallas, and has counter offered back to it's orginal proposal back in Dec of 2007,springback-plus. 12 plus months of negoiation down the drain. This looks to be a position that the TWU is gonna take into Federal mediation with American for the board seems ready on votes now to request fed help.Sometime in the spring.It seems that the neg team for the TWU felt that American was never serious about the restore,that it only interest was to continue down the road with the 2 bonus checks for the last 4 months.Both side's I feel are at a point that a total break-down of negiotations has occured.J Weel stated that after looking over the TWU counter-offer and rejection of all the offer that AA was offering that both side were way apart.American is now facing both pilots and AMT's in federal mediation.This will not look good for summer travel as a threat of a strike loom's if the mediator release's both pilots first them AMT on another front,this could cripple the airline greatly.This smack's of the NWA situation several years back.Which as we know ended in a buy-out of the carrier to Delta.Meeting only once a month now as ruined moral and performance of the carrier,in-which the FAA nows has eye's on American every day now. American has money now to weather the damage this spring by the pilots and the AMT'S. We well see if the new incoming President will be labor friendly as he has stated,both the company and these unions at American are counting on him to be on their side.

 

[Bob Owens]

Load factor is dropping, fuel is dropping, flights are dropping(capacity) and so on. If you want me to get more into detail I can, but I think most get the jest.

It must be jest.Despite all the bad news the numbers are still what they are $24 billion in revenue, nearly $7billion more than in 2003 with 24100 less employees and a lot less airplanes capacity and fuel burned.

We want the blood letting to stop, we want it all back.

Basically what I am saying is this. ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY!!!!

We are not looking to build Rome, just take it back.

 

[eolesen]

October traffic for AA was down 8% year over year. Load factor was down 1.5%. Capacity was down 7%

Domestic traffic decreased 11.5% YOY on 10.3% less capacity. Intl was down 3.6% on 1.1% less capacity.

Cargo ton miles were down 11% YOY.

Good thing AA pulled out capacity in September... September's drop was similar.


Bob, you can continue to fantasize about your $24B revenue number. Just be sure to reduce it by 11%.... and growing.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

"Basically what I am saying is this. ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY!!!!"

No, it wasn't. But my concessions were taken in less than a day! Actually, after a meeting with the three union presidents on AA property was all it took for my wages to be gutted and have executives reward themselves with bonuses.

We have sacrificed for more than the 5 years this concession package was to last. We are into year #6 with no end in sight. The company is NOT bargaining in good faith, yet the TWU still does. Each contract proposal the company slides across the table is an insult to me and my craft. Enough is enough already.

It looks like the AMTs will be headed towards mediation if AA once again rejects our proposal. The company is shrinking by parking fuel guzzlers in the desert. We will be receiving newer, more fuel efficient aircraft very soon. We have less employees than before. The economy is hurting but it will not hurt forever.

Restore and more now!

 

[Man of the People]

Even though I am a union member, I believe in what you say. People on this board, mainly AMT'S always say the same thing. Restore and more. Anyone with any kind of education should realize that this will not happen(even with Obama).

Reality is this we are in a bad recession, soon to be depression, and yet people on this board want the world. I am a realist, I look at the economy and see exactly what we could possibly get with the variables at hand.

Load factor is dropping, fuel is dropping, flights are dropping(capacity) and so on. If you want me to get more into detail I can, but I think most get the jest.

I look at it this way, which may piss off some but so be it: We take a dollar an hour raise, this year, with the holidays going back to 2X, then next year, for us that have a job, we get a dollar and so on.

Basically what I am saying is this. ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY!!!!

Spoken like a true coward. have fun JG.

 

[The Goose]

"Basically what I am saying is this. ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY!!!!"

No, it wasn't. But my concessions were taken in less than a day! Actually, after a meeting with the three union presidents on AA property was all it took for my wages to be gutted and have executives reward themselves with bonuses.

We have sacrificed for more than the 5 years this concession package was to last. We are into year #6 with no end in sight. The company is NOT bargaining in good faith, yet the TWU still does. Each contract proposal the company slides across the table is an insult to me and my craft. Enough is enough already.

It looks like the AMTs will be headed towards mediation if AA once again rejects our proposal. The company is shrinking by parking fuel guzzlers in the desert. We will be receiving newer, more fuel efficient aircraft very soon. We have less employees than before. The economy is hurting but it will not hurt forever.

Restore and more now!

Ken - you wrote:
... yet the TWU still does [bargain in good faith]. WHISKEY, TANGO, FOXTROT - OSCAR? My detector for bovine fecal matter broke itself when I read this line.

The TWU bargaining in good faith? After all saying the charades are prearranged for so long? How about going through the motions trying to fool the membership? No contract is cheaper for the company if delayed long enough.

You're due a drug test after that comment.

 

[iluvaa]

http://www.twu.org/downloads/pdfs/aaupdate112008.pdf

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ken - you wrote:
... yet the TWU still does [bargain in good faith]. WHISKEY, TANGO, FOXTROT - OSCAR? My detector for bovine fecal matter broke itself when I read this line.

The TWU bargaining in good faith? After all saying the charades are prearranged for so long? How about going through the motions trying to fool the membership? No contract is cheaper for the company if delayed long enough.

You're due a drug test after that comment.

Goose,

My Local President is on the negotiating committee and he is working hard to bring back a good contract. My point was that the company does not respond with contract offers that are meant to reach a goal of respect and good faith. Yes, we are all aware of the way the contract negotiating process takes place but the company is to blame for not returning what was taken from us. (Sorry about your fecal matter machine.)