Why no contract from the Association?

[WeAAsles]

That is some disparity. They must really work those guys productivity ,productivity. Weez looking at DL's compare to ours I think I changed my mind on Ready reserve bring them on and pay me"
" I need mine"

Many would have zero problem with it Al. We also have more Clerks than they do and the reason maybe for the disparity between the two?

 

[Albert]

Many would have zero problem with it Al. We also have more Clerks than they do and the reason maybe for the disparity between the two?

Is the clerk disparity as large as with MTC

 

[NYer]

You're not kidding, I'm afraid to tell them I have 10 hours of double time on my paycheck that's $60.34 per hour. That's why I'm picking up the check when me and my coneheads brahs go out to dinner, Do they have any good Italian restaurants in DFW?

Double time is nice, but not at the expense of other language.

For instance, on the Fleet side, if we get double time but they allow PTers to sign up, be eligible and called for OT before a FTer, then it could become a net loss.

As it stands, on the TWU side our OT calls for FT to get OT before any PT. Another important point is that a bypass gets paid as opposed to being given the opportunity to work the hours at another time.

If our language becomes what the IAM has, even with double time included, we can make an argument that would be a net loss for us.

 

[WeAAsles]

Is the clerk disparity as large as with MTC

Hard to tell exactly Al? I think the metric for Passenger Cargo and Aircraft handling also puts in PSA as well. We probably do have more workers in house than other airlines? But our average pay and benefits comes in almost equal with # 3 where in house maintenance comes in an easy # 2.

But hey they only get half pay for the first day sick right.

 

[Rogallo]

But hey they only get half pay for the first day sick right.

I guess in your view that's better then no pay, huh?

 

[xUT]

Well, let me say this about that And I will retreat to the Cooler.
As is well known, I have always been a proponent of unionism.
I have walked the picket line at both the Eastern and NWA strikes. ( as well as others)
I was always an advocate of AMFA as the Philosophy fit mine.
However, I never understood the denigration of other class & crafts to achieve the goal of having an independent union for the M&R.
Yes, I have heard of the ‘your riding my coat tales’ and I am smarter than you because I have a ‘righty tightly’ A&P ticket.

How did that work out?

Now ‘your unions’ have kicked you in the ass, and I don’t blame Weasels and Albert for pointing out the arrogance.

“IF” the AA M&R voted in AMFA, you wouldn’t be here sucking teet for the TWU/IAM==A$$ociation.

Now, for me, back to the cooler.

xUT

 

[1AA]

Well, let me say this about that And I will retreat to the Cooler.
As is well known, I have always been a proponent of unionism.
I have walked the picket line at both the Eastern and NWA strikes. ( as well as others)
I was always an advocate of AMFA as the Philosophy fit mine.
However, I never understood the denigration of other class & crafts to achieve the goal of having an independent union for the M&R.
Yes, I have heard of the ‘your riding my coat tales’ and I am smarter than you because I have a ‘righty tightly’ A&P ticket.

How did that work out?

Now ‘your unions’ have kicked you in the ass, and I don’t blame Weasels and Albert for pointing out the arrogance.

“IF” the AA M&R voted in AMFA, you wouldn’t be here sucking teet for the TWU/IAM==A$$ociation.

Now, for me, back to the cooler.

xUT

Sadly the industrial unions unskilled outnumber the skilled. Today it's all about union dues and numbers. Plain and simple. The TWU does not want a repeat performance of what happened back in 1977. My fellow AMT'S unfortunately are a tough bunch to get onboard with the class and craft union thing. They have been for years side tracked and divided by believing the lies and false promises from the TWU and went one step further falling for the Teamsters crap. So here we are today stuck with the Association and the threat of the IAMPF being shoved up our A$$es.

 

[conehead777]

Well, let me say this about that And I will retreat to the Cooler.
As is well known, I have always been a proponent of unionism.
I have walked the picket line at both the Eastern and NWA strikes. ( as well as others)
I was always an advocate of AMFA as the Philosophy fit mine.
However, I never understood the denigration of other class & crafts to achieve the goal of having an independent union for the M&R.
Yes, I have heard of the ‘your riding my coat tales’ and I am smarter than you because I have a ‘righty tightly’ A&P ticket.

How did that work out?

Now ‘your unions’ have kicked you in the ass, and I don’t blame Weasels and Albert for pointing out the arrogance.

“IF” the AA M&R voted in AMFA, you wouldn’t be here sucking teet for the TWU/IAM==A$$ociation.

Now, for me, back to the cooler.

xUT

It's easy for you to say. It' is our fault no doubt about it. We have guys who keep beleaving the same old TWU lies . The Tulsa versus line guys etc etc . Al and weas are rude and condescending I wouldn't be rude back. but why is fleet service guys worried about amts head count we amts do not make the business plan the company dose and they decide how many amts they hire. Not us amts just like they decide to hire any work group. If al and weas are so worried about it they need to go in management .
Yes guys have let the association kick us. But the amts I work with are for a AMFA .see when the union and company put dead people on the seniority list they killed us. And of course the company and twu have the money so they win. But if we get AMFA I hope we are not like the united guys beleaving the ibt lies and voting AMFA out. So you see we are not the only airline that let a union kick there ass united guys did to. Southwest guys and Alaska have it right. And AMFA HAS HELPED THE DELTA guys with dl trying to keep the union out. So it's easy for you to talk bad about aa guys but united is no different . And animosity with fleet is guys like al and weas who have no respect for licensed amts. my goodness weas goes to the pilot thread just like 700 did they have no respect if they make a mistake and leave a bag behind no one dies. But until they take legal responsibility for a aircraft with there being asses I'll show them no respect . I respect all work groups but when you disrespect my work group then I'm coming out fighting. I,have no proplom with antook are nyer people like that and can have a discussion with. But al and weas are disrespectful especially when you do not agree with them so yes I do blame them for sticking there nose where it dose not belong

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Well, let me say this about that And I will retreat to the Cooler.
As is well known, I have always been a proponent of unionism.
I have walked the picket line at both the Eastern and NWA strikes. ( as well as others)
I was always an advocate of AMFA as the Philosophy fit mine.
However, I never understood the denigration of other class & crafts to achieve the goal of having an independent union for the M&R.
Yes, I have heard of the ‘your riding my coat tales’ and I am smarter than you because I have a ‘righty tightly’ A&P ticket.

How did that work out?

Now ‘your unions’ have kicked you in the ass, and I don’t blame Weasels and Albert for pointing out the arrogance.

“IF” the AA M&R voted in AMFA, you wouldn’t be here sucking teet for the TWU/IAM==A$$ociation.

Now, for me, back to the cooler.

Shooting [/ QUOTE]
I cannot disagree with a lot you say but it is a fact that the TWU and AA were working together in the effort to keep AMFA out. If you have been paying attention you know the TWU is dominated by Fleet and also you know that although we are in the same union Fleet (And Stores) has more benefits than we do. As we speak there are no AMTs on the international ATD staff. Only Fleet Service. There is a huge difference between a FSC and an AMT job and the responsibility that the AMT has with their job is extremely large. This responsibility and the constant scrutiny by the FAA warrants higher pay and at least the same benefits as a Fleet Service Clerk. To date we are second class citizens in this union although we pay higher dues than any FSC or Stores employee. We call this taxation without representation. That is why we tried and hopefully will try again to get away from them. That being said we AMTs are also our own enemy by the constant fighting between O/H and Line and station vs station. But the biggest question that remains is: If the TWU was watching out for AMTs and representing them well would the AMTs want to leave? No they wouldn't. The TWU International knows they are not representing us but not only do they fight like hell to keep us from leaving, but they continue to kick us in the nuts and push inferior benefits on us. Why does a FSC and Stores get a full day's sick time paid while we get half pay? Why does a FSC and Stores get longevity pay but AMTs do not? I do not look down on other work groups but I certainly will always believe I deserve the same benefits they do. As far as Weasels and the others a comment here and there is always ok but they try to take over any maintenance thread and bate everyone. They are not qualified to do our job and they have no idea what that job entails so they certainly have no business judging us or critiquing us as they do. I challenge you to identify any AMT who takes over FSC threads as they do ours. Putting them on ignore is the only option and I wish all would do that and stop replying to them and allow them to continue to belittle our jobs and to justify inferior treatment. If it is arrogance to point out being treated like second class citizens in our union then I am guilty as charged. I don't blame all FSC but I do blame the International and the FSC who run the ATD.
Now I'll go back to my cooler.

 

[MetalMover]

Weez there are 2300 AMTs for over 700 planes at WN how many does our merged company have? I think I'm I might be on to something here. I would like to go on record I'm willing to wait as long as it takes for our AMTs to get a fair contract even if it means they change their union.

You forgot to mention that WN mainly flies one type of equipment. The 737 requires less maintenance, thus less mechanics. There is also LESS ground support required in many areas including fleet service. Less logistical requirements as similar parts and tooling make a big difference.. AA flies a lot more wide bodies than WN. Can't really compare a 777-300 to a 737-800? 777-200? 767-300? And that's just on the LAA side. This has been discussed and rehashed comparing the number of AA mechanics to the number at WN. They were born with the outsourcing mentality and to have legacy airlines try to convert that way of life can only be difficult and painful.
And reading some comments from the fleet side, it sounds like there is some frothing at the mouth that a/c maintenance are now the main target with respect to a JCBA. I already see it locally regarding the transition of aircraft movement being turned over to line cargo..
Just a reminder to all: OUTSOURCING IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE! Not line cargo, not automotive and not building maintenance.

Remember Cabin Service?

[

 

[MetalMover]

Of course there are so many other factors that go into MTC costs. I know UAL had a buyout maybe they will do that for our AMTS. I just hope that doesn't mean more work for us I'm burnt out/ Also some AMTS say there is an AMT shortage but I think UALs buyout disproves that. Also to make $50 per hour with just a 2 year trade school diploma sounds pretty good to those less academically incline in other words it sounds like a pretty good gig. But AA's disparity with other airlines could be a tough sell for our negotiators

Maybe those AMT's should rephrase and say a EXPERIENCED AMT shortage.

 

[conehead777]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliver...he-global-fleet-and-raise-costs/#37d4748b4984

About the shortage

 

[swamt]

It's easy for you to say. It' is our fault no doubt about it. We have guys who keep beleaving the same old TWU lies . The Tulsa versus line guys etc etc . Al and weas are rude and condescending I wouldn't be rude back. but why is fleet service guys worried about amts head count we amts do not make the business plan the company dose and they decide how many amts they hire. Not us amts just like they decide to hire any work group. If al and weas are so worried about it they need to go in management .
Yes guys have let the association kick us. But the amts I work with are for a AMFA .see when the union and company put dead people on the seniority list they killed us. And of course the company and twu have the money so they win. But if we get AMFA I hope we are not like the united guys beleaving the ibt lies and voting AMFA out. So you see we are not the only airline that let a union kick there ass united guys did to. Southwest guys and Alaska have it right. And AMFA HAS HELPED THE DELTA guys with dl trying to keep the union out. So it's easy for you to talk bad about aa guys but united is no different . And animosity with fleet is guys like al and weas who have no respect for licensed amts. my goodness weas goes to the pilot thread just like 700 did they have no respect if they make a mistake and leave a bag behind no one dies. But until they take legal responsibility for a aircraft with there being asses I'll show them no respect . I respect all work groups but when you disrespect my work group then I'm coming out fighting. I,have no proplom with antook are nyer people like that and can have a discussion with. But al and weas are disrespectful especially when you do not agree with them so yes I do blame them for sticking there nose where it dose not belong

I have a feeling that al and wees has been removed from the forums. I will say this is much better without them posting here. Haven't seen them post or anyone quoting them (thank God) for several days now. A much, much better forum to follow. Thanks to all who are responsible for it.

 

[AA89]

You forgot to mention that WN mainly flies one type of equipment. The 737 requires less maintenance, thus less mechanics. There is also LESS ground support required in many areas including fleet service. Less logistical requirements as similar parts and tooling make a big difference.. AA flies a lot more wide bodies than WN. Can't really compare a 777-300 to a 737-800? 777-200? 767-300? And that's just on the LAA side. This has been discussed and rehashed comparing the number of AA mechanics to the number at WN. They were born with the outsourcing mentality and to have legacy airlines try to convert that way of life can only be difficult and painful.
And reading some comments from the fleet side, it sounds like there is some frothing at the mouth that a/c maintenance are now the main target with respect to a JCBA. I already see it locally regarding the transition of aircraft movement being turned over to line cargo..
Just a reminder to all: OUTSOURCING IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE! Not line cargo, not automotive and not building maintenance.

Remember Cabin Service?

[

Don't forget outsourcing is based on maintenance spend not headcount. I also have to question the numbers provided by the Ass. Stooge. $55,000 total compensation numbers posted for UAL? I'm throwing the BS flag.

 

[AA89]

I have a feeling that al and wees has been removed from the forums. I will say this is much better without them posting here. Haven't seen them post or anyone quoting them (thank God) for several days now. A much, much better forum to follow. Thanks to all who are responsible for it.

I does make for quicker scrolling...