Why no contract from the Association?

[Albert]

Sorry I don't have a crystal ball.
I don't recall every claiming I owned one.
You just can't satisfy certain people on this board. You make comments based on experience and past events then you get challenged on it to show proof. Then you post links and references and still is not satisfactory for some.

You name says your a magician, can you make the association or the threat of the IAMPF being forced upon the AA guys dissappear?

You would say he only performed an illusion, that you'll be forced anyway

 

[WeAAsles]

You would say he only performed an illusion, that you'll be forced anyway

 

[MerlinMagician]

Sorry I don't have a crystal ball.
I don't recall every claiming I owned one.
You just can't satisfy certain people on this board. You make comments based on experience and past events then you get challenged on it to show proof. Then you post links and references and still is not satisfactory for some.

You name says your a magician, can you make the association or the threat of the IAMPF being forced upon the AA guys dissappear?

Not sure if you are able to answer my original question or not but please explain to all of us how you know with so much certainty that you will be forced into the IAMPF.

 

[Real tired]

ANY and ALL investments you make come with risks. ANY and ALL.

And in 10 or 20 years there will be no more multi employer funds? Another guy here with a crystal ball.

Game, set, match. Corporations completely pulled the wool over your eyes and have you walking in lock step hand in hand with their narrative.

His crystal ball might be a little better than yours.

Since you like links..................

https://www.pbgc.gov/documents/Tran...ivery&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

https://www.pbgc.gov/news/press/rel...ivery&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

https://www.pbgc.gov/news/press/rel...ivery&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

 

[CremaDiLimone]

When I was referring to the analyst I was referring to AA's prosperity not our pay. When PI merged with US there pay and benefits did go up. LUS also readjusted former Empire airlines employees seniority. It seems Pi had TWA'd Empire employees LUS did not think that was fair and gave the Empire folks there full seniority. When LUS merged with AW the AW folk did receive big wage increases on our first combined contract. Better check the 80's LUS did very well up to the merger I'm not sure about AA. If AA was doing so well why did they and the TWU come out with a B scale that screwed the whole industry?

do you believe your imaginary analysts believed the rust belt was coming back and stand-alone us air would out-do stand-alone aa..by sheer volume of lus pit-cle/phl-ath flights opposed to laa jfk-lax/ord-lhr flights??

you are an honorable us air soldier, in fact you are captain us air....but some of the stuff i read is a good chuckle.

as far as the B scale, that happened before i arrived. when i arrived on the airline scene, the enemy to all airline workers was lorenzo at co and later at eastern. the B scale wasn't catastrophic..especially compared to ready reserve status at dl.

the B scale wasn't indicative of aa's financial status...i'd say a BK filing is. 2 in 3-4 years for lus air in the early 2000s? where was your cash war chest? the same cash war chest accumulated in the 80s-90s by aa that allowed it to stay out of bk, when every other legacy carrier filed.

in england, one would say you are 'taking the piss'. in the usa, they say, "are you sh1tt1ng me?"

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Obamaphone. More Fake News...

reagan started the program in 1986...clinton took it from land line to cellular..but obama got all the credit/blame.

we must have many, many millionaire clerks. i can understand voting on social issue(s), but how can any union worker vote for anyone with an 'R' next to their name and then defend republican economics?

 

[WeAAsles]

His crystal ball might be a little better than yours.

Since you like links..................

https://www.pbgc.gov/documents/Tran...ivery&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

https://www.pbgc.gov/news/press/rel...ivery&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

https://www.pbgc.gov/news/press/rel...ivery&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

Can I "PLEASE" seriously have something that says the IAMNPF is one of those Multi Employer Plans the PBGC is talking about?

There are plenty of Stocks out there right now too that probably wouldn't be good investments (Sears, Radio Shack) but at least many of those I can research enough to definitely know I should stay away.

After the last Global economic crash some say put your money under your mattress but I'm still putting 20% into my 401k anyway.

Can you "PLEASE" give me something that tells me for an absolute FACT I want to join you guys in your motivations to not even have it offered to us at all?

 

[Real tired]

To maybe clear up a few things about the pension in case it's in the upcoming JCBA, most likely, and coming from the IAMNPF Summary Description, the new AA members will be given credited time for your time employed at AA. In other words, if you had 30 years at AA when you joined the plan, you would be eligible to draw your pension rigth away if you retired under the "30 and out" rule.

Unfortunately...... you still will have to vest for 5 years. You can't get something for nothing. In other words, if you were to retire within the first 5 years of joining the plan, you would only get a one time lump sum payment. So the ultimate scenario for the new AA plan members might be a 25 year employee who vests for 5 years, then retires with a monthly check at 30 years.

Now for some numbers. And keep in mind exact numbers from the IAMNPF are hard to come by unless you retire and sign up for your pension, then they make the final determination for you pension amount. And even my yearly statement of benefits is about a year behind. So up to date numbers are hard to find.

Since being forced into the plan in '08, as a Mechanic, I've invested somewhere around $37,400 into the plan.

If I were to retire today, my monthly check would be somewhere near $750, before taxes.

Figuring somewhere around 20% in taxes each month, that leaves my estimated check near $600 per month.

So, that leaves my payback time on my investment at somewhere around 5 years (2022) before I make my first dime on my initial $37,000 investment. And keep in mind that as soon as we joined in '08, the plan went into "endangered status" and cut the benefits of the Fleet people by about 40%. If that happens after I retire, it takes my payback date that much further down the road.

 

[1AA]

Not sure if you are able to answer my original question or not but please explain to all of us how you know with so much certainty that you will be forced into the IAMPF.

The creation of the Association.

 

[Real tired]

Can I "PLEASE" seriously have something that says the IAMNPF is one of those Multi Employer Plans the PBGC is talking about?

There are plenty of Stocks out there right now too that probably wouldn't be good investments (Sears, Radio Shack) but at least many of those I can research enough to definitely know I should stay away.

After the last Global economic crash some say put your money under your mattress but I'm still putting 20% into my 401k anyway.

Can you "PLEASE" give me something that tells me for an absolute FACT I want to join you guys in your motivations to not even have it offered to us at all?

I'd sure love to scan some of the paperwork I have from '08 and let everyone read how the trustees and the actuary used all their double talk and pulled the plan from endangered status by using the WRERA, of which we are still under to this day.

Maybe a USAirways Fleet person can man up and post his numbers from his annual benefit statement so everyone here can make their own decision on if the plan is a good financial investment or not.

 

[WeAAsles]

To maybe clear up a few things about the pension in case it's in the upcoming JCBA, most likely, and coming from the IAMNPF Summary Description, the new AA members will be given credited time for your time employed at AA. In other words, if you had 30 years at AA when you joined the plan, you would be eligible to draw your pension rigth away if you retired under the "30 and out" rule.

Unfortunately...... you still will have to vest for 5 years. You can't get something for nothing. In other words, if you were to retire within the first 5 years of joining the plan, you would only get a one time lump sum payment. So the ultimate scenario for the new AA plan members might be a 25 year employee who vests for 5 years, then retires with a monthly check at 30 years.

Now for some numbers. And keep in mind exact numbers from the IAMNPF are hard to come by unless you retire and sign up for your pension, then they make the final determination for you pension amount. And even my yearly statement of benefits is about a year behind. So up to date numbers are hard to find.

Since being forced into the plan in '08, as a Mechanic, I've invested somewhere around $37,400 into the plan.

If I were to retire today, my monthly check would be somewhere near $750, before taxes.

Figuring somewhere around 20% in taxes each month, that leaves my estimated check near $600 per month.

So, that leaves my payback time on my investment at somewhere around 5 years (2022) before I make my first dime on my initial $37,000 investment. And keep in mind that as soon as we joined in '08, the plan went into "endangered status" and cut the benefits of the Fleet people by about 40%. If that happens after I retire, it takes my payback date that much further down the road.

So what happens if you retire and live 25 years and it doesn't ever cut your benefits? On your deathbed would you say that that was a good investment then?

 

[WeAAsles]

I'd sure love to scan some of the paperwork I have from '08 and let everyone read how the trustees and the actuary used all their double talk and pulled the plan from endangered status by using the WRERA, of which we are still under to this day.

Maybe a USAirways Fleet person can man up and post his numbers from his annual benefit statement so everyone here can make their own decision on if the plan is a good financial investment or not.

That all I've ever been looking for. As much "honest information" as I/we can get if we're going to have the chance to make a decision.

Unlike many of these guys I'm not making my decisions based on my emotions.

 

[WeAAsles]

And for informational purposes. WRERA

http://www.retirementdictionary.com/definitions/wrera

 

[Real tired]

Can I "PLEASE" seriously have something that says the IAMNPF is one of those Multi Employer Plans the PBGC is talking about?

There are plenty of Stocks out there right now too that probably wouldn't be good investments (Sears, Radio Shack) but at least many of those I can research enough to definitely know I should stay away.

After the last Global economic crash some say put your money under your mattress but I'm still putting 20% into my 401k anyway.

Can you "PLEASE" give me something that tells me for an absolute FACT I want to join you guys in your motivations to not even have it offered to us at all?

And also.....

It's great you are putting that much into your 401K. I which I could too. But keep in mind they took our 401K match money from us in '08 and used it for the IAMNPF.

I still had to make my bills, so my 401K contribution had to suffer when we joined the plan.

Don't get me wrong, a monthly check, ever as small as it might be, is nice in retirement, but my $37,000 that I invested in the plan would have taken me much further had I invested it in my 401K.

 

[Real tired]

Unions should NEVER have gotten involved with Pension funds or any management of their members finances outside of just negotiating the best deals they could for their members and servicing those contracts.

They should have continued the fight to have the Companies fund those retirement investments and there never would have been the level of animosity there is now if a Union focused or run Pension fund got into trouble.

They brought it upon themselves IMO.

And by the way, this was a very good post. Thanks.