Why no contract from the Association?

[Traymark]

, but how can any union worker vote for anyone with an 'R' next to their name and then defend republican economics?

It was incredibly easy.
It was either Trump or this bat shite crazy beotchh

 

[CremaDiLimone]

yeah...that's fine. i felt she was a brutal candidate and believe she lost due to social issues.

 

[1AA]

Reason # 9 is one of the main reasons to keep our 401K match to maximize the amount in our accounts.


http://www.401khelpcenter.com/401k_education/10_reasons_to_join_your_401k.html#.WTaZJXTD_qA

More good info on 401K and a match from your employer.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/082115/your-401k-more-important-you-think.asp

 

[Real tired]

So what happens if you retire and live 25 years and it doesn't ever cut your benefits? On your deathbed would you say that that was a good investment then?

Ding-Ding-Ding. You are a winner!!

Of course I'd say it's a good deal.

But that's not how it works. They are banking on you to die. Then they win.

But of course there are spousal benefits under the IAM plan. And if you are married, unless you elect otherwise, your spouse will get 50% of your monthly benefit until they push up daisies.

But.............. if you are married, your monthly check is reduced somewhere around 25%, and your spouses is 50% of that. (the calculations are convoluted, and done on a difference of age)

So.........my $600 after taxes monthly check is now around $450 with spousal benefits. And hers comes to around $225 a month 'till the old hag kicks the bucket.

How is that a good deal now? Calculate the payback rate on that deal.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ding-Ding-Ding. You are a winner!!

Of course I'd say it's a good deal.

But that's not how it works. They are banking on you to die. Then they win.

But of course there are spousal benefits under the IAM plan. And if you are married, unless you elect otherwise, your spouse will get 50% of your monthly benefit until they push up daisies.

But.............. if you are married, your monthly check is reduced somewhere around 25%, and your spouses is 50% of that. (the calculations are convoluted, and done on a difference of age)

So.........my $600 after taxes monthly check is now around $450 with spousal benefits. And hers comes to around $225 a month 'till the old hag kicks the bucket.

How is that a good deal now? Calculate the payback rate on that deal.

Ok but wait a minute here. You're not skipping out on the Tax man with your 401k either. You're either going to put money into your 401 pre taxed or defer that until you retire and begin to draw it down.

You seem to be making the assumption in your posts that you're going to be able to find a safe haven from the IRS which we all know you can run but you can't hide. He'll find you even if you run to a tiny island with only one coconut tree.

You technically have a spousal offset built into your 401k as well when you think about it. Two people wearing different clothes, each eating food, and maybe both with medical issues paying a doctors bill. And again the 401k if you live long enough will eventually draw down to $0.00

Yes I'm sure they want us to retire later and croak earlier for a longer sustainable plan and they probably love guys like me who are single and aren't thinking spousal offsets but limited amounts to a chosen beneficiary and I'm out. But I'm more concerned about what I have to live while I'm here on earth, not what I leave behind (yea maybe that helps people I've never even met, as others are maybe helping me)

Let me be clear again. I'm NOT supporting one over the other by a long shot. I'm supporting diversity and choices. I don't look at it as others on this thread are. I don't care what it's called or if they rename it because the IAM name bugs people. I'm thinking (even though I doubt it) what if aw dammit I'm 99 and still freakin stuck here man.

BTW your Social Security has a spousal offset too. Everything has a spousal offset if your spouse was a housewife and she didn't earn an income of her own for you to not worry if you step through the pearly gates leaving her behind with her old age ailments. Marrying a women who had a great long term career like you did, now that's a fantastic investment. (Your kids rarely ever return any "financial" investment you made in them)

 

[WeAAsles]

Reason # 9 is one of the main reasons to keep our 401K match to maximize the amount in our accounts.


http://www.401khelpcenter.com/401k_education/10_reasons_to_join_your_401k.html#.WTaZJXTD_qA

More good info on 401K and a match from your employer.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/082115/your-401k-more-important-you-think.asp

My increase in wages gave me the ability to defer that increase to my retirement accounts rather than keeping it all on the front end. Essentially I made up my own Match.

I went from putting 15% into my 401k to putting 20%. And I'm even considering by years end moving that amount up to 25%. With the wage increases we received in October I'm putting far more money into my 401 (by myself alone) than I was the year prior. And to also add my Social Security payouts will be higher as well because of the raises and more going in to SSI.

Let's forget the idea of any match whatsoever and even the IAMPF. Wouldn't you prefer to gain more wage increases on the front end to invest how you chose rather than having it deferred to the back end in a 401k that may not allow you areas that you would like to make personal investments in?

Even if you received a contribution rather than a match it's going to come out of a total value compensation package that was negotiated for you.

You need to start thinking a little more outside the box and stop isolating yourself so much to one arena.

I hope you're thinking about other retirement ideas for your future? Real Estate and maybe having an income flow from those investments and maybe even retiring out of the Country and becoming an expatriate?

You're too focused only on this 401k match thing for my tastes personally.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW Retiring early is a nice idea too. But if you're not busting a nut and enjoy what you do why are you looking for the early escape hatch?

For me by the time I hit my thought out minimum retirement age I'll probably be a Crew Cheif in a Bagroom? With Swap Shifts (CS) I can give away 50% of my shift and pretty much enjoy whatever I want especially working for an airline.

Maybe when the time comes (And hopefully I'm healthy enough) I'll stick around a while longer?

For you guys who post on here and come across as pretty angry most of the time. Maybe you need to find your joy for what you do again like your probably did when you first hired in?

 

[Real tired]

BTW Retiring early is a nice idea too. But if you're not busting a nut and enjoy what you do why are you looking for the early escape hatch?

For me by the time I hit my thought out minimum retirement age I'll probably be a Crew Cheif in a Bagroom? With Swap Shifts (CS) I can give away 50% of my shift and pretty much enjoy whatever I want especially working for an airline.

Maybe when the time comes (And hopefully I'm healthy enough) I'll stick around a while longer?

For you guys who post on here and come across as pretty angry most of the time. Maybe you need to find your joy for what you do again like your probably did when you first hired in?

There is a wonderful happy life outside of the airline, if you have one. A life, that is.

Keep in mind I love my job here, I just hate the way I have been treated. So far they have lied to me, stole from me, and broken every promise the company has ever made to me since I hired on at Allegheny. Inside and outside of the contract. If I wanted to be treated this way, I would have put in my application at Trump Shuttle, or Trump Casino !!!

But when people come here and say a pension is a great leg of the stool of retirement, they are totally right. Just not a multi-employer pension plan !!

Like your frozen defined benefit plan, and my terminated defined benefit plan, that investment money came from the company and the shareholders. With a multi-employer plan, that money comes from you. Right off the top of your paycheck. Under the PBGC, my terminated defined benefit plan is guaranteed almost at a rate close to what it would have been if it were not terminated by my employee friendly company in 2005. A multi-employer plan is guaranteed at somewhere near 35 cents on the dollar.

A pension is a great investment vehicle coming from a company that treated it's employees with respect. I just wished this was one of them.

 

[WeAAsles]

There is a wonderful happy life outside of the airline, if you have one. A life, that is.

Keep in mind I love my job here, I just hate the way I have been treated. So far they have lied to me, stole from me, and broken every promise the company has ever made to me since I hired on at Allegheny. Inside and outside of the contract. If I wanted to be treated this way, I would have put in my application at Trump Shuttle, or Trump Casino !!!

But when people come here and say a pension is a great leg of the stool of retirement, they are totally right. Just not a multi-employer pension plan !!

Like your frozen defined benefit plan, and my terminated defined benefit plan, that investment money came from the company and the shareholders. With a multi-employer plan, that money comes from you. Right off the top of your paycheck. Under the PBGC, my terminated defined benefit plan is guaranteed almost at a rate close to what it would have been if it were not terminated by my employee friendly company in 2005. A multi-employer plan is guaranteed at somewhere near 35 cents on the dollar.

A pension is a great investment vehicle coming from a company that treated it's employees with respect. I just wished this was one of them.

Breathing is a life. And we either try to chose the life we want or learn to accept the life we have.

And there are no promises in life. You made a promise to your first girlfriend or she made one to you that you would love each other forever. That one doesn't work out for most of us.

And if you mean me on the "great" leg thing? I've never said anything is great. When I start to draw down everything some of my legs will be shorter than others. That's a fact.

BTW I guess your choice was a wife and children? That was never the choice I wanted. "I" found it personally very uncomforting and distasteful. But again that's me. That was an investment others chose or got stuck in.

Those spousal offsets BTW are your decisions to make how you want them set up. And your only guarantee or promise in life is that you will die. I can't think of any other promise made to me that's a guarantee past that reality?

 

[swamt]

Without the financial support from the AA guys it's possible the IAMPF will end up down the same road. They need our money for temporary life support to pay out to people we don't even know or work for AA. Our money going out to strangers.
The PBGC is no longer that secure backup that we all once relied on in case of financial failure of union pensions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kansas...lumns-blogs/mary-sanchez/article61178627.html

If the IAMPF makes these same promises should we be concerned? If they try to scam us in giving credited time above the actual time in the plan where will the extra money come from? Will the taxpayers pay for the miss management and false promises of the IAMPF? Bottom line is they desperately need our money to keep the pyramid scam going.

https://www.google.com/amp/dailysig...er-bailout-of-private-union-pension-plan/amp/

They would give you credited time but pay you only actual time. Now you are making things up. You don't want the plan that's cool. vote no if they mandatory participation it's that simple.You putting a lot of effort into something that is just hearsay. Why not wait until there is a tentative

What I am afraid of is this asso. forcing this IAMPF upon the AA'ers. Just like they have in the past.
Albert, an honest question for you, what makes you think that there could be a vote by the membership? Remember the membership was not allowed to vote on the asso. after they were being promised to get a vote. And lets not forget the past where the union authorized and made changes to the contract with out a membership vote by exercising International Power to over ride. They have done it numerous times in the past. I would hate for this to happen to you guys but, as 1AA has said, and some experts, the pension fund may only have 10-20 years left, and yes, they are desperate to get the AA'ers into it to help finance it back to healthy. They desperately need help and need more employees/members to get into it to help fund it. Why do you think that the funds have lost more than 50% participants? Even UPS paid millions if not billions to get away and out of the pension fiasco at UPS.
Now I will say this, if Walmart could get unionized it would be a great enity to get into this pension fund. The sheer number of Walmart employees would boost it greatly and, some Walmart employees do not make enough to just set aside enough for their retirement. I honest ly hope you guys get a vote on rather to be part of the pension or not, but I also think that it should NOT be tied to any JCBA vote, they should be separate in my opinion as it could very well be used as a tool to pressure the votes one way or another.

 

[swamt]

AA was making record profit during the 80s and they also grew into the largest airline in the world. Yes the TWU OK'd the B scale and that was wrong and they did that in 83. In 89 AA made more money than they had ever made before and the TWU gave away our free medical insurance. The TWU was always willing to give AA anything they wanted. By the way.... AA bought TWA in 2001 which was not the 80s last time I checked. We all knew that it was a bad idea. They bought a broke airline with lots of debt and it was an anchor that drug us down. Of course they got the TWU to accept the worst contract in the history of aviation outside of bankruptcy in 2003. US Air used the BK filing to get in the back door after failing to merge with Delta and United. They sweet talked the pilots and they went along due in no small part to their hatred of Tom Horton. The merge has benefitted everyone except TWU members. We actually feared that as US Air never saw an outsourced maintenance job they didn't like. As far as seniority there are lots of grievances on the combined AMT seniority.

A little reminder of the history. Great post of the facts.
Question on the grievances. How can there be any if the members have not been told what the combined seniority is? Unless they are already being filed by officers in the know.

 

[Albert]

Ding-Ding-Ding. You are a winner!!

Of course I'd say it's a good deal.

But that's not how it works. They are banking on you to die. Then they win.

But of course there are spousal benefits under the IAM plan. And if you are married, unless you elect otherwise, your spouse will get 50% of your monthly benefit until they push up daisies.

But.............. if you are married, your monthly check is reduced somewhere around 25%, and your spouses is 50% of that. (the calculations are convoluted, and done on a difference of age)

So.........my $600 after taxes monthly check is now around $450 with spousal benefits. And hers comes to around $225 a month 'till the old hag kicks the bucket.

How is that a good deal now? Calculate the payback rate on that deal.

When calculating you have to count the tax portion of the pension every leg of your stool will be taxed

 

[WeAAsles]

A little reminder of the history. Great post of the facts.
.

Wrong. But then again you seem to think you're the expert on a company that you never worked for.

 

[Albert]

do you believe your imaginary analysts believed the rust belt was coming back and stand-alone us air would out-do stand-alone aa..by sheer volume of lus pit-cle/phl-ath flights opposed to laa jfk-lax/ord-lhr flights??

you are an honorable us air soldier, in fact you are captain us air....but some of the stuff i read is a good chuckle.

as far as the B scale, that happened before i arrived. when i arrived on the airline scene, the enemy to all airline workers was lorenzo at co and later at eastern. the B scale wasn't catastrophic..especially compared to ready reserve status at dl.

the B scale wasn't indicative of aa's financial status...i'd say a BK filing is. 2 in 3-4 years for lus air in the early 2000s? where was your cash war chest? the same cash war chest accumulated in the 80s-90s by aa that allowed it to stay out of bk, when every other legacy carrier filed.

in england, one would say you are 'taking the piss'. in the usa, they say, "are you sh1tt1ng me?"

We can go back and forth all day again water under the bridge. Bottom line is after a joint contract I could transfer to your station and bump you out of your shift if I'm senior and I'm already planning to do that to the Weez but if you keep annoying me and I'm even more obnoxious in person By the way our cash war chest went to buying back company stock sounds familiar doesn't it

 

[WeAAsles]

What I am afraid of is this asso. forcing this IAMPF upon the AA'ers. Just like they have in the past.
Albert, an honest question for you, what makes you think that there could be a vote by the membership? Remember the membership was not allowed to vote on the asso. after they were being promised to get a vote. And lets not forget the past where the union authorized and made changes to the contract with out a membership vote by exercising International Power to over ride. They have done it numerous times in the past. I would hate for this to happen to you guys but, as 1AA has said, and some experts, the pension fund may only have 10-20 years left, and yes, they are desperate to get the AA'ers into it to help finance it back to healthy. They desperately need help and need more employees/members to get into it to help fund it. Why do you think that the funds have lost more than 50% participants? Even UPS paid millions if not billions to get away and out of the pension fiasco at UPS.
Now I will say this, if Walmart could get unionized it would be a great enity to get into this pension fund. The sheer number of Walmart employees would boost it greatly and, some Walmart employees do not make enough to just set aside enough for their retirement. I honest ly hope you guys get a vote on rather to be part of the pension or not, but I also think that it should NOT be tied to any JCBA vote, they should be separate in my opinion as it could very well be used as a tool to pressure the votes one way or another.

What do YOU have to be afraid of? Do you plan on working with us someday?

Now please though provide documentation to PROVE that the (Specifically) IAMNPF will run out of money in 10 to 20 years? Prove your statements sir?

And "I/We" don't work for UPS and are NOT looking at or talking about the IBT Central States Pension in case you haven't noticed.

And provide (please) documented proof that in the History of the TWU being on the premises at American Airlines that they circumvented a (CBA) vote and denied the will of the membership to change the outcome from a no to a yes, or a yes to a no? If it's a fact there has to be some type of "documented" proof lying around somewhere?

Tweaking a few items and having members vote again is NOT denying the will/outcome of a membership vote.