Why no 1114 decision, months after hearing?

[eolesen]

Two more corporations dumping retiree healthcare --- the cities of Chicago and Detroit.

http://news.investors.com/061813-660353-detroit-chicago-shift-retiree-costs-to-obamacare.htm

The irony is that I suspect the municipal union retirees affected by this voted overwhelmingly for Obama.

 

[TWU informer]

Two more corporations dumping retiree healthcare --- the cities of Chicago and Detroit.

http://news.investor...o-obamacare.htm

The irony is that I suspect the municipal union retirees affected by this voted overwhelmingly for Obama.

And if those retired can go to Obama care for coverage, how on earth does anyone calculate the equity stake claim for the "loss" of insurance coverage? What a total hosed up mess!

 

[Thomas Paine]

There is a difference between AA, AT&T and 3M as at AA it is a contractual issue that

Is AT&T and 3M trying to do that to its unionized workers or non-union, big difference when you have a CBA versus being an employee at will.

True, with a Union you have to get the court to do it for you, with no union you don't. Then again if the result is the same whats the difference?

 

[MCI transplant]

The differance is that the Union Lawyers come out a whole lot richer! ------- But the main differance between this case and say, 3M is we, (the AA retirees ) prepayed for coverage!!!

 

[MCI transplant]

There is something missing from this puzzle that is out of public view.

Would you venture a educated "guess" as to what that "something" may be?------- I hate surprises!

 

[TWU informer]

Would you venture a educated "guess" as to what that "something" may be?------- I hate surprises!

I now think they are going to do away with the Retirement Medical outside of Bankruptcy proceedings, so they have no more creditor issues to deal with. AA has consisitently taken the stance that they can get out of this obligation without BK approval. SO they will wait until they emerge, and then shaft you, so you have no recourse via BK court rules.

 

[Bob Owens]

I now think they are going to do away with the Retirement Medical outside of Bankruptcy proceedings, so they have no more creditor issues to deal with. AA has consisitently taken the stance that they can get out of this obligation without BK approval. SO they will wait until they emerge, and then shaft you, so you have no recourse via BK court rules.

The courts have consistently backed corporations as far as eliminating retiree Medical benefits. Ellen Shultz had a good book called "Retirement Heist" a while back with several examples. What complicates things at AA is Prefunding and the "Trust Agreement" which was not widely available and even many local Presidents never saw or read it. We bought those benefits. That's what makes our situation different for us than most other people who never laid out a penny for them. But even if you read the Trust Agreement the company can still back out of the agreement. What's disputed is what happens to the funds still in the trust. The company is obviously trying to find a way to use money that's rightfully ours to pay their obligations. Its over $100 million just from the TWU and we wouldn't even get credit for it.

Bottom line, zero cost Retiree Medical is going away, they may offer you a plan but you will be paying 100% of the costs. In one example Ellen Shultz cited a retiree had to pay the company more for the medical than she collected from her pension.

 

[BigMac]

http://twu514.org/blog/2013/07/09/more-on-the-twu-equity-distribution-july-8-2013/

The formula for distribution of stock to American’s unsecured creditors, including all labor groups, is complex and a number of members have asked for further clarification.

The TWU has negotiated for our members to receive actual stock with considerable value. This stock will be distributed directly to our members as soon as American exits bankruptcy –most likely in September. Upon receiving the distribution, members will be able to invest or cash-in the stock as they see fit. This arrangement is substantially better than equity deals negotiated by other unions that have required that stock or stock options be placed in union-controlled trusts.

The TWU Equity Distribution is part of an overall deal that we negotiated with other unsecured creditors, including the pilots, flight attendants, non-union groups, as well as corporate unsecured creditors such as Boeing and GE. The 120-day schedule and formula for distribution of stock is the same for all of these groups of unsecured creditors. By working with these other unsecured creditors, we were able to leverage a stronger equity deal for the TWU membership.

The purpose of the stock distribution is to pay off the Company’s debt to its unsecured creditors. If the stock price comes out at the break-even point (the price necessary to pay off the Company’s debt) and rises over the 120-day period, fewer shares than originally projected will be distributed to the unsecured creditors because it will take fewer shares to pay off the debt. If the stock price goes down below the break-even point (approximately $15.00 per share) over the 120-day period, unsecured creditors and TWU members will be entitled to receive the maximum available shares under the distribution formula.

Because the value of the stock may go up and down during the 120 days after initial distribution, stock distributions will be made in thirty-day intervals up to day 120. By averaging the price of the shares during 120-day period, the number of shares distributed to unsecured creditors will match up as closely as possible to the value of the claims of the unsecured creditors. If the share price comes out at a level sufficient to pay off these claims and stays at this level through day 120, the average AMT will receive shares worth approximately $17,500. But the actual value of our 4.8% of shares distributed to unsecured creditors will depend on how the shares perform in the market.

An example of how the stock price can affect the number of shares distributed is as follows. If the initial price per share is $16.31 (the price of US Airways stock last week), and stays at that price for 120 days then the unsecured creditors will be due 469,100,000 shares and TWU members will be given 4.8% of that grant, or approximately 22.5 million shares. However, if the price of the shares drops from $16.31 to $12.00 a share and stays at that level the unsecured creditors will be due 510,600,000 shares and our members will receive 24.5 million shares.

Some members may have heard that the IBT accused the TWU of “pocketing” 5% of our equity. This is a blatant lie. Five percent of the equity is temporarily held back to deal with mistakes in distribution caused primarily by faulty payroll data from the Company. If, as we hope, the mistakes are minimal, the five percent balance will be distributed to eligible members. Under no circumstances will the TWU keep any equity. This allegation is a joke when you consider the Teamsters’ long history of corruption, cases of embezzlement, and the fact that members’ dues are used to pay for Jimmy Hoffa’s housing allowance.

We’re Not The First Ones The Teamsters Have Lied To. That’s Why They’ve Been Under Federal Government Supervision for 24 Years.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The TWU is under attack by the IBT and has intl. members traveling around the system attempting to sway members to not vote for the IBT but to give the TWU another chance.

I have a question for all of you that are twu supporters and intl. members, why hasn't the TWu put pressure along with the AFL-CIO since they are in the mix now because of the Assoc. with the IAM.

I understand that retired memebers put into the prefund for thier medical I get that part. But so didn't the rest of us.
Members took the early out with the prefund money and were told that we may get the match as well, if I am NOT mistaken. That the program was dead. So since we all still pay dues to the TWU why aren't the Intl. members putting pressure on the court to make a decision about the company match side of our prefunding money?

What are they waiting for enough time to go by them come up with some lame excuse that we tried but they screwed us. Is that going to be the reply?

If the TWU wants anyone to even consider them they need to start representing the dues paying members at AA like they say they will if we allow them to stay.

Show me the Money TWU.. Show us that you are not out to just promote your leadership guys allowing them to get more money (in pay raises) but Look the other way when it comes to the members on the floor.

When is a decision going to be made Final on that part of OUR Money???????

 

[Barfbag]

The TWU is under attack......

When is a decision going to be made Final on that part of OUR Money???????

Relax and keep the pressure off, the longer the procrastination the more retirees reach their goals under the plan as it was originally structured.

I'll sweat it out another 6 years until Medicare, if that's OK by you..?

 

[FWAAA]

The TWU is under attack by the IBT and has intl. members traveling around the system attempting to sway members to not vote for the IBT but to give the TWU another chance.

I have a question for all of you that are twu supporters and intl. members, why hasn't the TWu put pressure along with the AFL-CIO since they are in the mix now because of the Assoc. with the IAM.

I understand that retired memebers put into the prefund for thier medical I get that part. But so didn't the rest of us.
Members took the early out with the prefund money and were told that we may get the match as well, if I am NOT mistaken. That the program was dead. So since we all still pay dues to the TWU why aren't the Intl. members putting pressure on the court to make a decision about the company match side of our prefunding money?

Industrial union stooges don't have any methods of "putting pressure" on federal courts. Neither do officers of responsive craft unions. I don't know why Judge Lane hasn't decided the issue, but my guess is that he told the parties to come to a settlement - to compromise - which will make both sides unhappy - rather than wait for his decision that might make one side very happy and the other side very unhappy. Judges hold off on decisions all the time in hopes that the parties can reach an agreement. Happened in the pilot abrogation where the court waited until the pilots had rejected the LBFO before ruling that AA could abrogate the pilot contract.

 

[TWU informer]

Seems everything is this BK Court has been answered except the 1114 issue. AAG is about to get POR approval and merge the two carriers, but this one issue still remains unanswered.

 

[MCI transplant]

Thank maybe the Judge know something about the DOJ decision?

 

[iluvaa]

Is this a dead issue or what why 8 months after the hearing have we not heard anything. Can one of you lawyer types plz try and answer this

 

[FWAAA]

Is this a dead issue or what why 8 months after the hearing have we not heard anything. Can one of you lawyer types plz try and answer this

My WAG is the same as I posted earlier in #101 above. Perhaps the judge is hoping the parties reach a compromise.

The Maxon blog pieces on the issue make it sound like the merger documents might be part of the cause for delay:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/04/our-update-on-the-american-airlines-retiree-benefit-issue-we-have-no-update-but-maybe-some-interesting-background-info.html/

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/06/the-news-for-american-airlines-retirees-is-that-we-continue-to-have-no-news.html/

The best place to get real info or news would be the lawyers for the retirees - those retirees should be getting some updates from their lawyers.