Why no 1114 decision, months after hearing?

[xUT]

I salute you both, seriously, but really.....how about 1114 info!

Sorry for the thread drift.
I tried to give my experience as to where serving MY Country has no value in corporate affairs.
The 'company' will do what it wants irrespective of military service.
MCI took it as an attack. Some people can't handle the truth.

B) xUT

 

[MCI transplant]

Sorry for the thread drift.
I tried to give my experience as to where serving MY Country has no value in corporate affairs.
The 'company' will do what it wants irrespective of military service.
MCI took it as an attack. Some people can't handle the truth.

B) xUT

And what is the "truth" xUT?

 

[MCI transplant]

Hey, I'm not as nieve as to think that anything I, or anyone, else says on this blog will change the outcome of this anyway! All I'm trying to do let you know the retirees side of this!

 

[xUT]

Retirees are going to get screwed.
Fixed income (in most cases) and increase in medical when it's most expensive.
With the 'Lazy'U, we took a reduction in retirement income, then the 1114 cut our benefits in half.
Been there, done that, no T-shirt.
Talk about a screwing...
JMHO,
B) xUT

^Read^

Didn't read that as an attack on you. Read it as the total lack of respect shown for those who made such sacrifices.

Yes Bob, that is the sentiment of my post. I think most people get it.
Take Care,
B) xUT

And what is the "truth" xUT?

TRUTH is that Your service and My service doesn't mean squat to the judge or the company.

I (and the rest of the UA retirees) have been screwed by UA in bankruptcy via 1114.

You don't like it, I don't/didn't like it, but you better be prepared for a screwing.

I hope it doesn't happen to you "ALL" at AA.

Hey, I'm not as nieve as to think that anything I, or anyone, else says on this blog will change the outcome of this anyway! All I'm trying to do let you know the retirees side of this!

"Bien Hoa, 1965-66"
You must be older than dirt...

Lighten up!
Take Care,
B) xUT

 

[MCI transplant]

^Read^


Yes Bob, that is the sentiment of my post. I think most people get it.
Take Care,
B) xUT



TRUTH is that Your service and My service doesn't mean squat to the judge or the company.

I (and the rest of the UA retirees) have been screwed by UA in bankruptcy via 1114.

You don't like it, I don't/didn't like it, but you better be prepared for a screwing.

I hope it doesn't happen to you "ALL" at AA.



"Bien Hoa, 1965-66"
You must be older than dirt...

Lighten up!
Take Care,
B) xUT

Yea! I'm older than dirt! --------- In fact to give you an idea how old, I worked for United back in 1967, after I got out of the service. Worked ramp for six months, decided there was no future in that! Went back to school under the G.I. bill, and got my A&P, went back to United, they hired me, but wanted my to relocate to the SFO Overhaul base. I decided I didn't want to do that, so I hired on with TWA, the rest is history!------ Always wondered how things would have turned out if I had gone?

 

[MCI transplant]

xUT------The differance between what you went through at UA, and this 1114, is the fact that, as Bob pointed out, we payed for this coverage through our "Pre-Pay" program! Our coverage was paid for, by us, at the time of retirement! Now, AA is self insured, and they feel because UA, and the rest of the Industry that went through this, got away with droping retirement coverage, they should be able to do the same! But ------ none of the others, including UA, had their employees "pre-pay" their coverage! So now they have to get " creative" to screw us, and that's what this is all about!!!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

So what have we here? Something new? The last was "Line vrs. Overhaul!"------- Now it's "active employees vrs retirees?" And if your handle " Old Guy" is anywhere never accurate, you'de better start thinking about retirement! Unless you plan on working all your life? It seems time goes by faster the older you get!

Nice try MCI (hey that rhymes) The point that I did make in case you missed it is that that match money is MINE. It is for MY retirement medical. You have your own fund and have been using it I assume. I find it odd that you imply that I should sacrifice my retirement medical fund in order for you to continue to get coverage. Also I have to consider that I must work for the rest of my life since my retirement pension is frozen and I have no retiree medical now. But if that makes me selfish so be it. As far as I am concerned I have sacrificed more than enough. Sooner or later it has to come down to how this all effects me and if I ever have a chance to retire. As it is now it does not look good. I must wait until almost 68 for social security and I am betting that the age for that and medicare will go up before I get there. You are getting benefits that those of us who are not there yet will never see so don't be judging me or anyone else in my demographic because we are worried about having to eat cat food when we are in our 70s. You got yours and now you want mine? This is not me against you. It is me trying to protect my own interests. I feel your interests are being taken care of at my expense. That is wrong.

 

[Bob Owens]

xUT------The differance between what you went through at UA, and this 1114, is the fact that, as Bob pointed out, we payed for this coverage through our "Pre-Pay" program! Our coverage was paid for, by us, at the time of retirement! Now, AA is self insured, and they feel because UA, and the rest of the Industry that went through this, got away with droping retirement coverage, they should be able to do the same! But ------ none of the others, including UA, had their employees "pre-pay" their coverage! So now they have to get " creative" to screw us, and that's what this is all about!!!

My position is they can drop it, ITs BK, but the value of the coverage you lost, because you paid for it, should make you creditors entitled to an equity stake in the new company.

Lets say you have been retired for ten years so all the funds are gone, (both direct contribution and matching) but only used $10.000 of the $50,000 of lifetime coverage, you should have a $40,000 claim against AA. Then they negotiate a settlement for equity based upon that value.

In perspective its a pretty good deal, most who are on the plan got a lot more out of it than they or their matching funds ever paid into it. The best we can hope for is to get our matching funds.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yea! I'm older than dirt! --------- In fact to give you an idea how old, I worked for United back in 1967, after I got out of the service. Worked ramp for six months, decided there was no future in that! Went back to school under the G.I. bill, and got my A&P, went back to United, they hired me, but wanted my to relocate to the SFO Overhaul base. I decided I didn't want to do that, so I hired on with TWA, the rest is history!------ Always wondered how things would have turned out if I had gone?

Why? You seem to be doin alright.

 

[MCI transplant]

Nice try MCI (hey that rhymes) The point that I did make in case you missed it is that that match money is MINE. It is for MY retirement medical. You have your own fund and have been using it I assume. I find it odd that you imply that I should sacrifice my retirement medical fund in order for you to continue to get coverage. Also I have to consider that I must work for the rest of my life since my retirement pension is frozen and I have no retiree medical now. But if that makes me selfish so be it. As far as I am concerned I have sacrificed more than enough. Sooner or later it has to come down to how this all effects me and if I ever have a chance to retire. As it is now it does not look good. I must wait until almost 68 for social security and I am betting that the age for that and medicare will go up before I get there. You are getting benefits that those of us who are not there yet will never see so don't be judging me or anyone else in my demographic because we are worried about having to eat cat food when we are in our 70s. You got yours and now you want mine? This is not me against you. It is me trying to protect my own interests. I feel your interests are being taken care of at my expense. That is wrong.

Old guy,------ "I got mine"? Now let's go over that! ------ What you have now, a frozen penson TWA had for over ten years! I get that through the PBGC!------ I worked for them for 33 years. I worked for AA for 7. My AA penison is bigger than TWA's! ----- You do the math!!!! ------- Just a look at what you've got to look forward to!

 

[xUT]

AA employees do not give a #### about retirees.

IIRC AA M&R was first to implement the B scale with a 10 year progression.
We at UA had to concede to 5 years.
We eat our young and complain when the young throw us under the bus.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Old guy,------ "I got mine"? Now let's go over that! ------ What you have now, a frozen penson TWA had for over ten years! I get that through the PBGC!------ I worked for them for 33 years. I worked for AA for 7. My AA penison is bigger than TWA's! ----- You do the math!!!! ------- Just a look at what you've got to look forward to! Remmber! You voted for it!

Wrong again dear. I didn't vote for any of this. Looks like your total is 40 years of service. I have 28 now and when I have 40 I still won't be able to collect social security or medicare. (I'll be 66) I'm betting my pension will be managed by the PBGC. I am glad you are retired and doing well. I just wish you would just allow the rest of us to have the same opportunity. If you have 7 years of service at AA you paid into the retiree medical for 7 years. I paid more than 20 years into it. So do you think it's fair that you get to use it from now on while I get half of the money that was supposed to be in an account for me? You will never win that argument. Just enjoy what most of the rest of us will never live to enjoy for ourselves. I actually hope you keep getting your medical. I just don't want to pay for it. Nobody's going to pay for mine. So I can maybe fund one person and I would like that person to be me. Like I said, I'm selfish, but I'm trying not to be a hypocrite.

 

[MCI transplant]

Wrong again dear. I didn't vote for any of this.

Yea! My bad! ----- BUt this still is something you'll have to deal with! ----- AND, just for the record, if I were you, I'de get something going on the side. That's the only way to go! Ether that,------ or, get yourself a real job!!!!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

AA employees do not give a #### about retirees.

IIRC AA M&R was first to implement the B scale with a 10 year progression.
We at UA had to concede to 5 years.
We eat our young and complain when the young throw us under the bus.

Excellent point. The A scalers at AA had buying power we never had because of the wage progression they voted in. AA was the first to have different scales and the last to get rid of them. C scalers didn't even get insurance for the first year of their employment!!!! Now who would do this to another employee??? The A scalers of course. In 95 they got a 5 and 5 (after the union and company realized there were enough of them to carry the vote) and we got the SRPs. So you can see the TWU has always pitted one demographic against the other and it continues only because they get yes votes. If we would all just keep voting no we could stop it, but we are a weak membership with lousy/corrupt leadership that cares more for the management at AA than the members of the TWU. Pretty sad. But we can't blame the A scalers now. They are gone and the same people who were hosed by them are now hosing others with their yes votes. We are our own worst enemy.

 

[Flying low]

Excellent point. The A scalers at AA had buying power we never had because of the wage progression they voted in. AA was the first to have different scales and the last to get rid of them. C scalers didn't even get insurance for the first year of their employment!!!! Now who would do this to another employee??? The A scalers of course. In 95 they got a 5 and 5 (after the union and company realized there were enough of them to carry the vote) and we got the SRPs. So you can see the TWU has always pitted one demographic against the other and it continues only because they get yes votes. If we would all just keep voting no we could stop it, but we are a weak membership with lousy/corrupt leadership that cares more for the management at AA than the members of the TWU. Pretty sad. But we can't blame the A scalers now. They are gone and the same people who were hosed by them are now hosing others with their yes votes. We are our own worst enemy.

In other words "it's all about me, brother"....