What's the difference between union and an association?

[Duke787]

Here at AA we have 2 associations the APA & APFA, and the TWU. The associations have the contracts that other airlines want, the union does not, as a matter of fact we are not highly thought of as we are lowering the bar for every other airline mechanic trying to get a raise.

The associations have in their contracts, OT rules and CS policy written into the contract. While our union has no such protections in the contract leaving us unprotected every time a new manager wants to reinvent the wheel and change or just threaten the OT and CS rules.

AA goes out of their way to arrange non-reving agreements for the association represented employees. Meaning our pilots and FA's can just jump on board another airlines plane as long as there is an open seat (no ZED). Now that our planes are always full, that would nice if our union got that same kind of agreement for us, or even get jumpseat privileges on OUR OWN planes, like the mechs at Jetblue and SWA have.

Until bankruptcy the association represented employees paid literally half what us power in numbers union employees paid for the same health coverage.

Ironically we have a laid off Tulsa guy here bad mouthing AMFA saying how there are a lot of AMFA mechs on the street from NWA, then he said he prefered the IAM over AMFA (X-twa guy), then I reminded him that there are a lot of IAM Eastern mechs on the street.

The troubleshooting chart points to the TWU is not working for us, because AA sure is working for the associations at AA.

IMO - the IAM and TWU joint representation splits the #'s that the TWU says is so important, and it would be paying for 2 sets of infrastructure that has no accountability to the people paying for it,,,,, US.....how about just having a vote to the members and lets see who wins, nothing says you have to do negative campaign mailers to everybody's house. We all already know what the TWU and IAM have to offer.


interesting, read this page and the links

http://www.amfanatio...hwest20Airlines

 

[blue collar]

Thanks for the read. I wasn't aware any of that transpired. Goes to show that industrial unions are all about themselves and the afl-cio, not about labor and true solidarity.

 

[700UW]

There is no difference, IAMAW is the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

AFA is the Association of Flight Attendants.

You wont be paying for two structures, the association of the TWU and IAM will have no members and no dues collected.

You will either be a TWU or IAM member depending on location, it is truly amazing you fix an airplane but you cant read and comprehend what the alliance will be.

 

[paul1]

The twu will never get us jumpseat. I think we had it in one contract and they never pushed the issue. Also look how the twu lets aa farm out all the IFE system, after we won a major grievance to keep that work in house after the contract ran out, good ol gless gave it away and never told anyone about it. Saving who jobs, not ares thats for sure!

iam/twu as one or on there own is a sad situation

 

[paul1]

There is no difference, IAMAW is the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

AFA is the Association of Flight Attendants.

You wont be paying for two structures, the association of the TWU and IAM will have no members and no dues collected.

You will either be a TWU or IAM member depending on location, it is truly amazing you fix an airplane but you cant read and comprehend what the alliance will be.

you are going to have a guy with the iam contract bettter off than us. That is not going to work and I am sure the iam guys do not want to come down to the twu standard.

 

[700UW]

Do you not realize there will be a joint CBA?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The difference between the IAMAW and the AFA is the IAMAW will represent any one.

The AFA represents a class and craft union of Flight attendants.

AMFA another assoc. only represents mechanics and related in the class and craft per the NMB.

 

[700UW]

Guess you dont know the AFA merged with the CWA a few years back, they represent, US Agents, and lots of phone workers.

Try again.

 

[blue collar]

There is no difference, IAMAW is the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

AFA is the Association of Flight Attendants.

You wont be paying for two structures, the association of the TWU and IAM will have no members and no dues collected.

You will either be a TWU or IAM member depending on location, it is truly amazing you fix an airplane but you cant read and comprehend what the alliance will be.

You must've missed the point if his post. It's not so much about the IAM/TWU abortion, but about what the other unions at AA have. You know, those craft associations? If you read the link he provided, it goes to show how industrial unions don't care about true unionism and solidarity, only dues. No wonder you think it's a badge of honor to be on the IAM nc for a bankruptcy contract.

 

[737823]

No wonder you think it's a badge of honor to be on the IAM nc for a bankruptcy contract.

+1

Josh

 

[Frank Szabo]

Here at AA we have 2 associations the APA & APFA, and the TWU. The associations have the contracts that other airlines want, the union does not, as a matter of fact we are not highly thought of as we are lowering the bar for every other airline mechanic trying to get a raise.

The associations have in their contracts, OT rules and CS policy written into the contract. While our union has no such protections in the contract leaving us unprotected every time a new manager wants to reinvent the wheel and change or just threaten the OT and CS rules.

AA goes out of their way to arrange non-reving agreements for the association represented employees. Meaning our pilots and FA's can just jump on board another airlines plane as long as there is an open seat (no ZED). Now that our planes are always full, that would nice if our union got that same kind of agreement for us, or even get jumpseat privileges on OUR OWN planes, like the mechs at Jetblue and SWA have.

Until bankruptcy the association represented employees paid literally half what us power in numbers union employees paid for the same health coverage.

Ironically we have a laid off Tulsa guy here bad mouthing AMFA saying how there are a lot of AMFA mechs on the street from NWA, then he said he prefered the IAM over AMFA (X-twa guy), then I reminded him that there are a lot of IAM Eastern mechs on the street.

The troubleshooting chart points to the TWU is not working for us, because AA sure is working for the associations at AA.

IMO - the IAM and TWU joint representation splits the #'s that the TWU says is so important, and it would be paying for 2 sets of infrastructure that has no accountability to the people paying for it,,,,, US.....how about just having a vote to the members and lets see who wins, nothing says you have to do negative campaign mailers to everybody's house. We all already know what the TWU and IAM have to offer.


interesting, read this page and the links

http://www.amfanatio...hwest20Airlines

The bottom line is the mechanics will get what is negotiated for them by the outfit to which they pay dues. The TWU has been, for many years, interested in its survival rather than doing the job they're supposed to be doing - I can't imagine how any other "union", considering the climate, will act much differently. Survival of those "higher on the food chain" will come first with the balance of members getting the crumbs as has always been.

 

[swamt]

Here at AA we have 2 associations the APA & APFA, and the TWU. The associations have the contracts that other airlines want, the union does not, as a matter of fact we are not highly thought of as we are lowering the bar for every other airline mechanic trying to get a raise.

The associations have in their contracts, OT rules and CS policy written into the contract. While our union has no such protections in the contract leaving us unprotected every time a new manager wants to reinvent the wheel and change or just threaten the OT and CS rules.

AA goes out of their way to arrange non-reving agreements for the association represented employees. Meaning our pilots and FA's can just jump on board another airlines plane as long as there is an open seat (no ZED). Now that our planes are always full, that would nice if our union got that same kind of agreement for us, or even get jumpseat privileges on OUR OWN planes, like the mechs at Jetblue and SWA have.

Until bankruptcy the association represented employees paid literally half what us power in numbers union employees paid for the same health coverage.

Ironically we have a laid off Tulsa guy here bad mouthing AMFA saying how there are a lot of AMFA mechs on the street from NWA, then he said he prefered the IAM over AMFA (X-twa guy), then I reminded him that there are a lot of IAM Eastern mechs on the street.

The troubleshooting chart points to the TWU is not working for us, because AA sure is working for the associations at AA.

IMO - the IAM and TWU joint representation splits the #'s that the TWU says is so important, and it would be paying for 2 sets of infrastructure that has no accountability to the people paying for it,,,,, US.....how about just having a vote to the members and lets see who wins, nothing says you have to do negative campaign mailers to everybody's house. We all already know what the TWU and IAM have to offer.


interesting, read this page and the links

http://www.amfanatio...hwest20Airlines

Sad how people get off topic so quickly. The TWU's response for denying AMFA into the Labor Summit is because of AMFA's current card drive at AA. This is a very sad reason for not allowing AMFA in. Pathetic actually. Then he claims that "other" organizations do not agree with how AMFA "raids" other unions at other carriers. This is the ibt/teamsters talking now, they are still pissed off at AMFA for their "grass roots" effort to remove the teamsters in a record card drive that was 100% SWA mechanic employees driven and had not one iota of AMFA National involved, which is the exact same thing going on at AA, NOT RAIDING!!! It is also very sad (sick rather) that the other union leadership holding such grudges at AMFA while all this time the teamsters are "in fact" the ones that stabbed the TWU right in the back and turned a deflective operation at AA into a full blown card drive to remove the TWU, now that is "raiding". Also; all the while the teamsters are "in fact" also RAIDING the members at US with the IAM. Then it was "in fact" the TWU who decided to try and make a "RAID" into the mechanics ranks at SWA, YES, this too was a full blown "RAID" attempted as it was started by the TWU international, NOT, grass roots efforts from the mechanics ranks at all. And as we all know this "RAID" by the TWU was very quickly put to rest, just as was the "RAID" attempt from the teamsters shortly after the AirTran purchase. It just goes to show that the TWU and the teamsters are using reasons against allowing AMFA to join a great and exceptional summit to have input and knowledge into a system that is designed to help all SWA employees benefit from it, they use reasons that they are currently practicing and participating in. Are these leaders that stupid? It is not coming from the pilots group, it's only coming from the TWU and the teamsters, and very possibly the IAM. All this because they hold a grudge against AMFA for what they stand for, not looking out for all the SWA employees and unions, but once again they are only looking out for themselves. It is very sad how these industrial unions will hurt other employees just because the hold a grudge against AMFA. This ladies and gentlemen; are NOT good leadership qualities that represent you at these industrial unions. Someone that will hold onto past issues for so long and then commit the very acts that they say they will not allow AMFA into the Labor Summit is just PATHETIC!!!!

 

[blue collar]

The IAM is probably still mad that they lost to AMFA at nw and ual.

 

[whoop whoop]

If the iam, twu, ibt had done their jobs and actually represented the mechanics, AMFA would of never been born or existed so long. They need to blame themselves for the problem. Not AMFA.

 

[1AA]

The IAM is probably still mad that they lost to AMFA at nw and ual.

Yup and they could not get them back at UAL when they changed to the IBT. Now the AMT's are pissed and have to live by the IBT poison pen. Hopefully not for long.
They lost out to AMFA at NWA. I am surprised the IAM did not have a major campaign at Delta.