What's AA's policy?

[Frank Szabo]

It is actually pretty easy to estimate the revenue lost from military waivers -- agents have to enter in an override code to issue the bagtags. If an airline is estimating $$$ in bag waivers, then I suspect it is based on some stats pulled from the override data, and not a random number pulled out of their hind quarters.

One guy I spoke to at The Widget says the waivers at one large airport in the SE come close to $1m, just at that airport and for the travelers and overrides they know about...

I'm all for cutting guys in uniform some slack when it comes to enforcing the rules for things on their dime. I'm not so quick to cut the government slack, though. They're the same government who cost AA millions for wiring bundles, millions in wasted fuel during ATC delays, and millions complying with other regulatory BS which does nothing for safety but simply guarantees employment for the Thousands Standing Around.

Back to the other issue - baggages waivers.

Nobody suggested (as you saw, E) giving the government a pass on fees but - don't even try to extract the fees from the military members - that's lower than whale crap.

As you have pointed out, their are many ways for AMR to recoupe their fees - use them - leave the soldiers alone - quit picking the low hanging fruit.

 

[Bob Owens]

Commercial airlines shouldn't have to foot the bill for hauling the military's gear all over the world.

You know what, you are right, the airlines shouldnt be footing the bill, the OIL companies should be footing the bill, after all thats why these soldiers are flying around in the first place. Here we are spending all this money in Iraq and Afghanistan and Bin Laden was finally hunted down in Pakastan! In the meantime since the war has started oil company profits have soared !! Make them pay, after all they've been the biggest benificiaries.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, Bob, we're fighting the war in the Middle East and Afghanistan because there are people who wanted to destroy the US 11 years ago and who still want to do it today. They don't like that we have the freedoms and resources to do what we do here in the US and to express our thoughts and freedoms.
Bob, they don't like the fact that there are still people who risk their lives to come live in the US and pursue the dream that caused people to get in cramped boats hundreds of years ago.
And despite whatever the price of oil is in the US, Bob, it is still cheaper here than in any other country in the world. You see, Bob, we in the US made the decision when you were still a baby - maybe before - that giving Americans the freedom to move around the country on their own with their own car was one of the greatest freedoms we could give our people. And then we said that we would create an air transportation system that would carry people between cities - and private businesses would provide the services that other countires have operated for years by publicly owned companies. And those airlines would provide a model that airlines around the world have copied - even perfected in the attempt to alow the rest of the world the transportation options we as Americans have. Sure our system has its downsides compared with the narrow roads and government operated trains in other countries, but we have the freedom to live our lives in the US the way each of us sees fit moreso than any people on the planet.

It is the ability to express ourselves and our faith - or lack thereof - and let each person decide what is best their them, unlike countries where deviance from the religion or words that a few have chosen could be reason for imprisonment - or death; that is what people want to take away from us.
.
And, Bob, since those oil companies are publicly traded, it is the profits they make that go into the pension plans of millions of Americans that they want to take away. They want you to no longer have the abiliity to spend your retirement years the way you want to spend them. Just like your employer, Bob, the oil companies provide products and services which consumers value and which those companies sell to the benefit of their stockholders and employees.
.
So, Bob, it isn't just about oil. It is about a way of life that Americans have enjoyed for centuries and that is the essence of what all humanity wants.... and which some people still want desperately to take away from us - at the same time that others continue to try to reach our shores.

.
Frank,
E's point is perfectly valid. The US military set up a system that expects individual soldiers to pay for services which the DoD chose not to pay for in advance or provide those soliders with a system to charge directly to the government.
In a world where we (again in the US) have created the most advanced financial system in the world, it should very much be possible to charge the paying party at the time of the transaction - without expecting those who are fighting to protect these freedoms that some don't understand to pay for out of their own pocket.
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The option, of course, is for airlines to do what they have done many times before - take on additional costs and then recoup them from their employees.
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I think we should be pushing Congress to fix the problem - and for the DoD to pay for the services it uses rather than expecting soldiers who VOLUNTARILY SERVE their fellow citizens to wait for reimbursement or for airlines to deliver without reimbursement those services that cost them a whole lot of money to produce.

 

[MCI transplant]

You know what, you are right, the airlines shouldnt be footing the bill, the OIL companies should be footing the bill, after all thats why these soldiers are flying around in the first place. Here we are spending all this money in Iraq and Afghanistan and Bin Laden was finally hunted down in Pakastan! In the meantime since the war has started oil company profits have soared !! Make them pay, after all they've been the biggest benificiaries.

<_< ------- Bob, you're 100% correct on that one, but you know that's not going to happen!!! :angry:

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip

Frank,
E's point is perfectly valid. The US military set up a system that expects individual soldiers to pay for services which the DoD chose not to pay for in advance or provide those soliders with a system to charge directly to the government.
In a world where we (again in the US) have created the most advanced financial system in the world, it should very much be possible to charge the paying party at the time of the transaction - without expecting those who are fighting to protect these freedoms that some don't understand to pay for out of their own pocket.
.
The option, of course, is for airlines to do what they have done many times before - take on additional costs and then recoup them from their employees.
.
I think we should be pushing Congress to fix the problem - and for the DoD to pay for the services it uses rather than expecting soldiers who VOLUNTARILY SERVE their fellow citizens to wait for reimbursement or for airlines to deliver without reimbursement those services that cost them a whole lot of money to produce.

Unlike you and others, I was in the miltary and, unlike you and other business types, know how the system worked years ago.

One was given orders and the next stop was disbursing to draw travel pay (for train/air ticketing) and cash for any other expenses with regard to the orders. Any shortage/overage was corrected upon check in at the next assignment, NOT 30 DAYS LATER. Fees are published and the government is aware of same - during ticketing, there is no good reason for bag fees not to be taken care of.

I wonder how the feds would have felt had one of those servicemen left his dragbag full of weapons at the counter for lack of funds for transport?

The military has been moving on civilian transport for many years and after all that time, there's no excuse to have not gotten the payment system correct by now. Yes, the poverty-stricken airline got their money up front leaving the serviceman to wait for a month to get money back he/she may have had plans for due to the new and improved disbursing systems of the government - it seems like the only people that haven't any "immediate need" of their money are those who can't afford to buy a congressman or two.

The bottom line here is that Delta's policies suck and the management are a group of bastards - this is not to say any other airline is better - Delta is simply the one brought to everyone's attention this time.

Make the feds pay for their transport and don't expect the grunts to do so or even front the money to the military.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Let's see how if his will fly? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/20/lawmakers-wants-to-waive-all-airline-baggage-fees-for-returning-us-military/

 

[WorldTraveler]

easy... the airlines will just stop bidding on government business or if they do, they'll mark up their bids by another 50%.
.
I haven't seen any bill introduced to eliminate the taxes the airlines are paying for services....the ones that make air travel one of the most heavily taxed industries....
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Airlines worldwide are viewed as a huge pot of tax revenue... you need only look at Europe to see where things will go in the US... difference is that airlines in the US don't have the profit levels that some European levels have. If you throw on more taxes, you'll push alot of airlines into the money-losing zone again....
and we know from history that the one of the first place airlines collectively turn to cut costs is --- their employees.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Hey guy's check this guys green card!!!----- http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/06/27/li-man-rock-diaz-busted-pretending-to-be-soldier-for-first-class-upgrade/?test=latestnews

 

[Bob Owens]

no, Bob, we're fighting the war in the Middle East and Afghanistan because there are people who wanted to destroy the US 11 years ago and who still want to do it today. They don't like that we have the freedoms and resources to do what we do here in the US and to express our thoughts and freedoms.
Bob, they don't like the fact that there are still people who risk their lives to come live in the US and pursue the dream that caused people to get in cramped boats hundreds of years ago.
And despite whatever the price of oil is in the US, Bob, it is still cheaper here than in any other country in the world. You see, Bob, we in the US made the decision when you were still a baby - maybe before - that giving Americans the freedom to move around the country on their own with their own car was one of the greatest freedoms we could give our people. And then we said that we would create an air transportation system that would carry people between cities - and private businesses would provide the services that other countires have operated for years by publicly owned companies. And those airlines would provide a model that airlines around the world have copied - even perfected in the attempt to alow the rest of the world the transportation options we as Americans have. Sure our system has its downsides compared with the narrow roads and government operated trains in other countries, but we have the freedom to live our lives in the US the way each of us sees fit moreso than any people on the planet.

It is the ability to express ourselves and our faith - or lack thereof - and let each person decide what is best their them, unlike countries where deviance from the religion or words that a few have chosen could be reason for imprisonment - or death; that is what people want to take away from us.

So, Bob, it isn't just about oil. It is about a way of life that Americans have enjoyed for centuries and that is the essence of what all humanity wants.... and which some people still want desperately to take away from us - at the same time that others continue to try to reach our shores.

So people are coming here to kill us because we are free? Hmm, so people in Ireland, Switzerland and scores of other countries arent free? From what I've seen most people in Western Democracies have pretty much the same freedoms, if not more, than we do. For instance Irish people can go to any country on the face of the earth and spend as much as they wish, Americans cant even go to nearby Cuba and spend more than $179 a day. The Irish have more Freedom than we do! Why arent they trying to kill them? Please you dont honestly believe that Muslims are attacking us because we are free? They are coming here to kill us because we are in their country, we are in their country to insure that we can get the oil we need for our country.

Look at the facts. We used to support Al Queda, when they were trying to push what they felt was a Western intrusion into their Muslim territoty, the Russians in Afghanistan. Prior to that the only trouble we had with Muslims was related to our support of Israel, a nation that was formed by displacing the Palestianans in favor of Europeans Jews that survived the Holocaust, the Germans did the deed but the Palestinians lost their homeland, why are they pissed? That and when we had troops stationed in what they feel is their territory in support of Israel, like Beruit. One of the gripes, and why these nutjobs get support from some in the Muslim community stems from the bases we put in Saudi Arabia back in BUSH the Firsts term. Is it a legitimate Gripe? I dont know how would you feel if Saudi Arabia opened a military base in our country? For Muslims its a big deal because Mecca is their Holiest of cities and all Muslims must make a pilgrimage there.

I've never heard or read where these terrorists say they want to kill us because we are free, I only hear that from people in this country who are very similar in many ways to those nutjobs who would rather build some sort of simple minded fantasy about what is going on and why than face the reality and all the complexities it involves.

In the end take out OIL and there would be no situation, no Jihad, no troops in the Mideast and no War on Terror. Thats why I feel that we should do whatever we can to break our dependance on OIL. Then we can let them go back to killing each other instead of us.

And despite whatever the price of oil is in the US, Bob, it is still cheaper here than in any other country in the world.

Really? Cheaper than Saidi Arabia or Venezuala?

If you are ever in New York go to the Ellis Island Museum, you may learn a few suprising things about immigration and emigration in the US.

And, Bob, since those oil companies are publicly traded, it is the profits they make that go into the pension plans of millions of Americans that they want to take away. They want you to no longer have the abiliity to spend your retirement years the way you want to spend them. Just like your employer, Bob, the oil companies provide products and services which consumers value and which those companies sell to the benefit of their stockholders and employees.

So now you are saying that the oil company wants to save my Pension but evil Muslims want to take it away? Ok, I think they have medical treatment for your condition.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Bob,
did you say you served in the US military?

 

[Frank Szabo]

(Off Topic - I know)

WorldTraveler, on 11 June 2011 - 06:39 AM, said:

no, Bob, we're fighting the war in the Middle East and Afghanistan because there are people who wanted to destroy the US 11 years ago and who still want to do it today.

Some of these lines would be laughable if 6000+ of our miltary people hadn't already died for the lies, not counting the 3000 in the WTC.

We have to back up quite a few years to understand what's going on in Afghanistan. Evidently, the Ruskies went in there and found immense mineral wealth and decided they'd try to take it by force. They gave up and even though he was fighting the Russians with arms supplied by the good ol' USA, bin Dickhead didn't officially surface until he decided he and his merry band didn't like us because we had the same thoughts as th Ruskies.

Remember the Murrah bulding in Oklahoma City? 170 lives wasn't enough to scare the American people into giving up their freedom but, in September of 2001, 3000+ plus 4 errant aircraft did the trick - presto, we have the Patriot Act, the identical law which the SOBs tried to get passed after McVeigh supposedly blew up the Murrah building, which is anything but patriotic. Back to the story.

After supposedly chasing the bin Pampers all over Afghanistan, he settled in Pakistan (home of crappy knives) in a compound probably built with the foreign aid the USA gave the Packits.

For the shortest period of time, NASA released a news article re: a space survey conducted from the ISS that showed immense mineral wealth in Afghanistan. That's why the Russians were there, and exactly why we're there now - paving the way for US mining interests.

Once binny was settled in, GWB turned his attention to Iraq, the dictator of which "Threatened My Daddy", with more lies about "Weapons of Mass Destruction". The major beneficiaries to that war were the US based oil companies and their "Revenue Sharing Agreements" with the Iraqi government we're now propping up and paying for. Now, our "attention" returns to binny boy.

Very much like to Panamanian dictator Noriega was our friend until he threatened to out the drug importation scheme by our own government, bin Laden became a liability and, probably being an item on the agenda when the "Lightworker" was read into office, it was decided to take him out for a temporary ratings pop, not much different than releasing a day-and-a-half of usage from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve - same logic, same effect.

The Afghanis are pissed off because we want to take from them what is rightfully theirs as cheaply as possible. (sound like anyone else we know?)

Saving the country from a group of people that want to destroy the USA, indeed. Someone's been listening to far too much of the Faux Noise Network and the Commie Noise Network. The Fascist (big business controlling government) Republicans (note: I didn't say conservatives) are this country's worst enemy.



On a lighter note, there was a joke circulating last week re: Bin Laden -

"5 years locked in the same house with three wives? He probably called the SEALs himself."

 

[eolesen]

One of the gripes, and why these nutjobs get support from some in the Muslim community stems from the bases we put in Saudi Arabia back in BUSH the Firsts term. Is it a legitimate Gripe? I dont know how would you feel if Saudi Arabia opened a military base in our country? For Muslims its a big deal because Mecca is their Holiest of cities and all Muslims must make a pilgrimage there.

Thats why I feel that we should do whatever we can to break our dependance on OIL. Then we can let them go back to killing each other instead of us.

Point of order... let's not overlook the fact the House of Saud **ASKED** for us to put the bases there 21 years ago when Saddam the Harmless sent his military into Kuwait.

Iraq was Shiah, Saudi is Sunni, and Sunnis hate the Shiahs more than Catholics hate Protestants.

Saddam no doubt was thinking if invading one country was that easy, invading two should be no problem. Especially if there was a chance of taking out the House of Saud and its control over Medinah and Mecca......

Should we have taken sides? People will debate that as long as they've debated allying with Russia and China 60 years ago... The Germans and Japanese were no doubt enemies at the time, but look at what became of our allies and what became of our enemies... they traded places.

In a rare moment of agreeing with Bob, we do break need to break our dependence on oil. Build more nuke plants, & open up Yucca Mountain. Create the Mother of all solar arrays in the deserts of Arizona & New Mexico. Electrify the nations railroads.

Obama could set the trend by not using the World's Largest Private Jet to go do fundraisers. He could be driving a solar powered Prius from DC to California instead, or at least use biofuel... Maybe take Amtrak to NYC (like Joe Biden used to for his daily commute from ILM)...

But breaking free of petro isn't practical in the near term. We need to start drilling in ANWR and other places for the oil that we control. Maybe even build a few refineries so that we're not having to import finished product.

If a few polar bears, caribu, cactus, or pack rats wind up being put in harms way instead of my son and his peers, so be it.

And think of all the jobs that could create in the process....

Heck, let's just annex Mexico. They have oil, too. Since X% of the country is already here, why not just bring the rest into the fold and get it over with?

(Good luck figuring out what is serious and what is sarcasm...)

 

[strikeforce]

No values or morals from corporate america.....all about the holy dollar! These idiots would screw over their mothers, let alone soldiers.

 

[Bob Owens]

Iraq was Shiah, Saudi is Sunni, and Sunnis hate the Shiahs more than Catholics hate Protestants.

Catholics hate Protestants?? Both my wife and I are Ulster Irish, she's Protestant, I'm Catholic. Catholics dont hate Protestants, they just believe they wont get to Heaven because they dont go to confession and they eat meat on Fridays!

As far as Saddam I think if you dig into the story Saddam made his intentions known and it was only after the fact that the US took a strong stance against the Invasion of Kuwait. Saddam had stepped into a trap, I dont he ever had any real plans on taking over Saudi. Lets face it the man was evil, but he wasnt dumb.

 

[eolesen]

Evil, yes. I wouldn't call him dumb, but arrogance creates its own cloak of stupidity.

My wife's heritage is Ulster Scot. A century or so earlier, your marriage would have been an interesting one, no doubt.