What would happend if we merge again?

[Beancounter]

And how was that done?

I know you're reaching for DOH, but I'm sorry that was removed from ALPA merger policy prior to the merger. You need to quit getting your info from USAPA and think for yourself, because the stuff you're getting is worse than filtered info, it's a cup of diarrhea.

Read the McCaskill-Bond (seniority protection) legislation. The merging of the lists must be "fair and equitable". If both groups have the same union, then the unions merger language is used. That means the only hope you had of getting DOH, was if it had been in ALPAs merger policy. Then in would have superseded arbitration.
By going to arbitration, no judge or court will rule putting 80% of one pilot group under another is, "fair and equitable."

You will never see DOH with a combined list. That said, as long as you can stomach your current contract, keeping separate ops, has you in essence getting your DOH. Seems to be working. As long as it doesn't destroy the company. In which case you'll find yourselves in the situation you were prior merger. Knock, knock, knocking on liquidation's door.

 

[Beancounter]

I am not upset and you did not strike a nerve. You simply don't make sense. I did not imply anything. Stated it pretty clearly and it does not give me pleasure to know that we might have to go through this all over again. The real heartbreak is that the west pilots will now be lumped in with the east; a place we absolutely do not belong.

You did come across in the post I responded to as angry. You come across in this post as condescending. You must be a real pleasure to fly with. I am, however, looking forward to dealing with you web board bullies in person some day. Promises to be a real eye opener for people like you.

I would rather we just get along. I'm pushing 40 and the last fight I got into was 8 years ago in a bar. I'm too old for that cr@p now. With a wife and kids I can't afford to lose my job and end up in jail. Boy, brings back memories though. Nothing like a bar fight in the Rainbow Bar, Billings MT.

 

[Reed Richards]

I know you're reaching for DOH, but I'm sorry that was removed from ALPA merger policy prior to the merger. You need to quit getting your info from USAPA and think for yourself, because the stuff you're getting is worse than filtered info, it's a cup of diarrhea.

Read the McCaskill-Bond (seniority protection) legislation. The merging of the lists must be "fair and equitable". If both groups have the same union, then the unions merger language is used. That means the only hope you had of getting DOH, was if it had been in ALPAs merger policy. Then in would have superseded arbitration.
By going to arbitration, no judge or court will rule putting 80% of one pilot group under another is, "fair and equitable."

You will never see DOH with a combined list. That said, as long as you can stomach your current contract, keeping separate ops, has you in essence getting your DOH. Seems to be working. As long as it doesn't destroy the company. In which case you'll find yourselves in the situation you were prior merger. Knock, knock, knocking on liquidation's door.

We probably will soon all get to know McCaskill-Bond. I agree, when that happens no pilot in PHX will be placed "under" anyone. You will own that hub with all its bounty and profits.

Agree also, we will never see a DOH combined list of AWA and AAA. "Three way....on the way." Get ready to show your cards.

RR

 

[Phoenix]

.... as long as you can stomach your current contract, keeping separate ops, has you in essence getting your DOH. Seems to be working. As long as it doesn't destroy the company. In which case you'll find yourselves in the situation you were prior merger. Knock, knock, knocking on liquidation's door.

You would have us believe that LOA 93 is bankrupting East pilots; the East pilots are fools for refusing the Kriby proposal (that colossal pay raise); the East pilots are preventing the West pilots from getting that colossal pay raise by preventing a single contract (which saves the company soooooo much money).... and now you say the company is going to liquidate??

 

[Beancounter]

You would have us believe that LOA 93 is bankrupting East pilots; the East pilots are fools for refusing the Kriby proposal (that colossal pay raise); the East pilots are preventing the West pilots from getting that colossal pay raise by preventing a single contract (which saves the company soooooo much money).... and now you say the company is going to liquidate??

I don't remember saying LOA 93 would bankrupt you, only you know that. when did I say the Kirby proposal was good? When I talk about liquidation, I'm referring to the damage that separate groups could have ie. safety campaign driving away passengers or messing up a merger that could be good for the company in the long run. You currently being under LOA93 obviously is good for the company when payroll comes due. The way USAPA is currently negotiating for the company, I don't want a new contract, I'll stick with the current west one, thanks.

 

[Beancounter]

We probably will soon all get to know McCaskill-Bond. I agree, when that happens no pilot in PHX will be placed "under" anyone. You will own that hub with all its bounty and profits.

Agree also, we will never see a DOH combined list of AWA and AAA. "Three way....on the way." Get ready to show your cards.

RR

Yes, since US and American have different unions, there is a good chance it would come into play. If we were currently one pilot group you might get the American pilots to agree to DOH and there would be no need for arbitration. Because of the current situation however, that can't happen. Wow, strange to think you may have done the west pilots a huge favor by keeping us separate.

 

[AAviator]

Is there an airline on the planet that the usual US suspects haven't applied their "this is gonna happen because....." logic to?

ICT, UCT, operation minnow, where an already bk'd company couldn't be bought?


I know, I know... "This time is different".


I'm gonna name this one.

YAPD

Yet Another Pipe Dream


Folks, the smart money sees no value in a AA US combination. US employees do, but you're the only ones.

 

[luvn737s]

When AA has their own LOA93 contract - LOOK OUT! US will be on their fish finder for sure.

 

[AAviator]

When AA has their own LOA93 contract - LOOK OUT! US will be on their fish finder for sure.

US has never been on AA's radar. B6? Absolutely. The company wants domestic codeshare to bolster JFK on the cheap. We've said repeatedly- No way.

If one looks at the product that would result from a US AA combination, you'd be looking at a bankrupt AA that would shed... drum roll.... everything US brought to the combination. PHL would go, CLT would go, PHX would go...... Thats not even considering the fleet!

Did anyone notice the departure of B6's CFO on the weekend that AA and APA were supposed to conclude negotiations? Word through the grapevine says the AA/B6 combination has been designed.

 

[Beancounter]

Is there an airline on the planet that the usual US suspects haven't applied their "this is gonna happen because....." logic to?

ICT, UCT, operation minnow, where an already bk'd company couldn't be bought?


I know, I know... "This time is different".


I'm gonna name this one.

YAPD

Yet Another Pipe Dream


Folks, the smart money sees no value in a AA US combination. US employees do, but you're the only ones.

The, "smart money" people made out very well with the AWA/US merger. They would do well with a AA/US merger too, and they know. How do you think Parker came up with $10 billion to try and aquire Delta?

 

[Beancounter]

US has never been on AA's radar. B6? Absolutely. The company wants domestic codeshare to bolster JFK on the cheap. We've said repeatedly- No way.

If one looks at the product that would result from a US AA combination, you'd be looking at a bankrupt AA that would shed... drum roll.... everything US brought to the combination. PHL would go, CLT would go, PHX would go...... Thats not even considering the fleet!

Did anyone notice the departure of B6's CFO on the weekend that AA and APA were supposed to conclude negotiations? Word through the grapevine says the AA/B6 combination has been designed.

I can completely see why you would dream of that. All of those newer Airbus could replace AA's dinosaur fleet. Ton's of jobs shed with the retirement of those old aircraft, but oh wait DOH would place the entire B6 group on the bottom of the list. With the new new government legislation on employee integration it may be harder than you think to shuck the Blue boys under the bus. You big old legacy carrier boys sure are vicious.

 

[Rookie Jr]

YAPD

Yet Another Pipe Dream

Folks, the smart money sees no value in a AA US combination. US employees do, but you're the only ones.

YAPD. I like that. If AA declares bankruptcy it might be your pipe dream to merge. I believe you have it wrong. The smart money does see value in a AA US combination. The US employees I know truly do not want to merge.

I am assuming you are AA as your AArogance comes through loud and clear.

 

[Claxon]

YAPD. I like that. If AA declares bankruptcy it might be your pipe dream to merge. I believe you have it wrong. The smart money does see value in a AA US combination. The US employees I know truly do not want to merge.

I am assuming you are AA as your AArogance comes through loud and clear.

Careful AA Aviator, if you do merge, the western division will walk all over you to take your job too.They are extremely young and impatient. You want nothing to do with this group.

 

[luvn737s]

US has never been on AA's radar. B6? Absolutely.

I should have said gunsight. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Rookie Jr]

Careful AA Aviator, if you do merge, the western division will walk all over you to take your job too.They are extremely young and impatient. You want nothing to do with this group.

The west pilots are not that young and certainly not impatient. We are, however, quite experienced at dealing with arrogant pricks.