Weight restrictions on airbuses

[JetMonkey]

Crusher, it's obvious that you're not a pilot. If you were you'd know first hand that everything flight operationally went east. Procedures, flows, some checklist, call-outs, dispatch, and finally flight planning and weight/balance. So your beef with management should be about how they picked the EAST way of doing things, not old HP procedures. You may remove the foot from your mouth now.

 

[GuppyPup]

I don't know what you people are seeing or using but I'm seeing something completely different from my captain's seat on the 737. At least on that plane we aren't doing anything the old west HP way. Nothing. It is all east procedures now. I fly relatively short legs and am routinely weight restricted for no apparent reason.

On one short flight out of Burbank to Phoenix we almost couldn't leave without offloading 10,000 pounds of fuel, bags and pax. When I called dispatch in Philly and asked if I could depart with flaps 15 - which used to be normal west procedure out of Burbank - I was told that all of the old west performance data had been deleted from the performance profiles and flaps 15 was no longer a valid procedure under the now east dispatch/performance parameters.

We finally did make it out of there with all the pax and bags but it took 45 minutes of wrangling with the old east performance data computer to do it. In the past with HP procedures that whole performance process was done on board the aircraft and took about 3 minutes to do. We had the charts on board to plan a flaps 1, 5, 10 or 15 setting, bleeds on or off, full power or reduced. Now we can't do any of that anymore and we routinely get final paperwork with the wrong runway so it all has to be redone again while we sit at the end of the runway waiting for the computer to spit out from Philly.

Nice system we inherited! At least its cheap and insures everyone both east and west has a bad day!

In October, I believe USAIR, had the old AWE adopt the following:
Drop the SABRE bornemann flt planning system for the older legacy based SABRE FOS system (developed in the 70s for American, used at USAIR since early 2000s).
Drop the aerodata tkoff performance module, which does floating-point Tkoff perf (SCAP) calculations, in favor of the SABRE FOS TPS (tkoff performance system, used at USAIR since early 2000s ) which does a simple lookup table for rwy analysis.

You typically get better figures with the floating-point, because its near-real time, where the TPS numbers are a bit canned (and overly conservative).

It appears in the power-play btwn PIT and PHX for operational/dispatch performance data that PIT won out. Unfortunately for all those involved, they probably should have moved into the 21st century of dispatch/tkoff performance calculations, but chose to stick with the older LEGACY data.

I'm sure USAIR will eventually get there, but it's interesting to watch from the sidelines, whilst various EAST vs WEST departments struggle for what they are comfortable with vs. what is right.

 

[US1YFARE]

Crusher, it's obvious that you're not a pilot. If you were you'd know first hand that everything flight operationally went east. Procedures, flows, some checklist, call-outs, dispatch, and finally flight planning and weight/balance. So your beef with management should be about how they picked the EAST way of doing things, not old HP procedures. You may remove the foot from your mouth now.

Obviously you have no clue. The East didn't cram so many coach seats onto aircraft so that it could not make it across the US. You should ask the wizard for a brain or at least remove the kool-ade IV.

 

[soc-hpjester]

US1YFARE -- How is it kool aid IV ? Its just an old DOS program, we have stepped back in time with this so called advancement.

 

[US1YFARE]

Blame it on everything else except for what the real problem is. The real problem is that they've crammed so many seats onto those aircraft. Remember that little memo that was issued about the morons in tempe knowing that the aircraft will be too heavy at times and will need to stop for more fuel but they decided that the cost savings was greater than the inconvenience and lost loyalty of passengers?

 

[sharktooth]

US1YFARE -- How is it kool aid IV ? Its just an old DOS program, we have stepped back in time with this so called advancement.

I believe (don't know for sure) that when we dropped SABRE for reservations (etc.) in favor of QIK/Shares, we downgraded our performance data to the lowest cost system as a "necessary" part of the transition.

I believe there are many options available for performance however many flight deck crew, apparently, are not aware of them.

 

[crusher]

Jet Monkey;
Yes, it is true I am not a pilot , just a grunt who works at the airport who has to clean up the messes that Tempe dumps on us with their lack of forethought and or vision. Our slide into our present state is a direct result of Tempe's lack of how to take care of their people or their customers and the belief that they know better ( which has been proven to be terribly wrong). Dougie and Scottie have a long way to go to win our trust. This merger started with a lot of hope and promise ,all of which was thrown out by this management team and their incredibly shortsighted and stupid decisions. The list of their mistakes is far too lengthy but I'll list a few
1) Qik/Shares - the poorest example of a res sytem ever invented (And NO it is not fixed , it is still GARBAGE)
2) Scepter- The worst MTC computer system available
3) Aircraft reconfigurations - adding seats, destroying aircraft comfort,flight amenities,leg room,aircraft flight range.
4) So disgusting the premium passenger base that they have left us for other airlines in favor of Ma & Pa Kettle the once a year flyer.
5) Everything done on the cheap (They know the price of everything but the value on nothing)
6) How long does it take to improve first class service?
7) Keeping a worthless IT department even when they continue to exhibit their gross ineptitude and incompetence.
8) The new scheme of selling Elite FF status , even putting these "new elite" above those who actually fly to achieve their status.
9) So degrading us that we have been voted "The World's Worst Airline " bar none.

We had our issues prior to this merger , but at least we knew how to operate a professional airline.We had some of the most loyal passengers around but no more thanks to Tempe. Their choice to cater to the lowest common demoninator is destroyed any good will we might have still had.

 

[PA18]

It's interesting to hear that the West didn't have these types of operational problems until they began using the East W&B system.

What's curious, though, is that the East didn't have these problems -- like moving X number of pax behind Row 13, etc. -- either, until the West started using the same system.

So something in what had been a fairly useful system got buggered up at the time that it was introduced to West Ops. And now both sides are suffering for it.

 

[jcw]

How do the questions get answered in the weekly About US - maybe this weight question should be submitted to see what kind of answer we get. The truth is probably somewhere between crammed seats and the East system. The East system is probably not the exact same system since it needed to be integrated so things were probably lost. Other airlines probably fly an all coach configuration on the airbii and make it long distances.

Is anyone going to be in a town meeting with Isom coming up to ask him about this issue?

 

[700UW]

Why is it on the East we never had these problems?

 

[tadjr]

How do the questions get answered in the weekly About US - maybe this weight question should be submitted to see what kind of answer we get.

Email corporate.communications@usairways.com and ask. I'd ask, but I've already used up my quota of questions needing explanations for this week. :blink: 🙄
My questions were in regards to schedule changes done incorrectly and customers not being notified. Havent received a response yet, but I bet Tempe is shuttered for most of the week.

 

[jcw]

Why is it on the East we never had these problems?

The most likely answer is although the system was kept it was probably changed to integrate into HP systems. This probably resulted in configuration changes/performance changes etc. creating the issue. The Airbii can probably make the flight - the system is not allowing for optimal aircraft performance. If Isom is serious about running an on-time airline this should be a major concern.

The only thing I would be concerned with is how many diversions is US doing in comparision to CO, UAL, AA, etc on transcons. If winter winds are causing the same % of diversions for fuel at those carriers then this might not be as pressing of an issue. One would need to have actual diversions for fuel each year for the last 2 to 3 years to see if it is an actual trend or perceived trend. With Six Sigma or Tatham processes (lean manufacturing schools of though) you are taught to look at the data over and over again to make sure you are solving for the right problem instead of going on perception. When you base solutions on your perception you usually fix the wrong thing. Just like aircraft engine mechanics rely on alot of data to fix the engines from its computers vs going on a hunch. The mechanic always starts with engine performance data.

Even shares for HP is different today that what shares was before the merger. So we can't blame east or west systems since they all changed with the merger.

 

[N924PS]

I don't know what you people are seeing or using but I'm seeing something completely different from my captain's seat on the 737. At least on that plane we aren't doing anything the old west HP way. Nothing. It is all east procedures now. I fly relatively short legs and am routinely weight restricted for no apparent reason.

On one short flight out of Burbank to Phoenix we almost couldn't leave without offloading 10,000 pounds of fuel, bags and pax. When I called dispatch in Philly and asked if I could depart with flaps 15 - which used to be normal west procedure out of Burbank - I was told that all of the old west performance data had been deleted from the performance profiles and flaps 15 was no longer a valid procedure under the now east dispatch/performance parameters.

We finally did make it out of there with all the pax and bags but it took 45 minutes of wrangling with the old east performance data computer to do it. In the past with HP procedures that whole performance process was done on board the aircraft and took about 3 minutes to do. We had the charts on board to plan a flaps 1, 5, 10 or 15 setting, bleeds on or off, full power or reduced. Now we can't do any of that anymore and we routinely get final paperwork with the wrong runway so it all has to be redone again while we sit at the end of the runway waiting for the computer to spit out from Philly.

Nice system we inherited! At least its cheap and insures everyone both east and west has a bad day!

Did you complete the TPS training yet? It offers the options you cite. However, it doesn't surprise me Flaps 15 data was missing.

Remember, your former leaders are calling the shots these days. Cheap is the game and "the cost of everything and the value of nothing", their mantra.

Next time you have a problem, in addition to coordinating with your dispatcher, I suggest calling the load agent working your flight for options. The phone number is at the very bottom of the TPS usually a 412 area code.

Happy Flying!

 

[Dorf]

I don't know what you people are seeing or using but I'm seeing something completely different from my captain's seat on the 737. When I called dispatch in Philly .....we sit at the end of the runway waiting for the computer to spit out from Philly.

Isn't dispatch in PIT?

 

[Old PSA]

We do have one problem that I know exist with the weight and balance system. Previously, data was fed to it from SABRE-ACS. It sent passenger counts by seat assignments including children and infants. Shares does not feed the weight and balance system the same way. It uses zones. The W/B Sys. is capable of handling zones but as a backup function. Therefore balance issues are more frequent. US had a very similar problem when it first switched to SABRE. US used the AA balance methodology which produced some very strange results for the MD80 and B737-400. Within 2 weeks of changeover, the W/B system was changed to one that SABRE had developed for Canadian Pacific which used actual seat assignments and each seats moment and arm. That corrected most of the W/B problems. We have to see what Tempe's response is.