Vatican Study

[Ms Tree]

Look at the problems the Amish are having. Their genetic pool is a wadding pool right now. I read an article saying that they are already feeling the effects due to lack of genetic variation. There are several diseases and anomalies that they are experiencing as a result.

I agree with the idea that there are legitimate interests of the state to prevent incestuous relationships. I tend to believe that this interest trumps personal freedom.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Look at the problems the Amish are having. Their genetic pool is a wadding pool right now. I read an article saying that they are already feeling the effects due to lack of genetic variation. There are several diseases and anomalies that they are experiencing as a result.

I agree with the idea that there are legitimate interests of the state to prevent incestuous relationships. I tend to believe that this interest trumps personal freedom.

OK why not draw that fine line at oh say Homosexuality? Bestiality? Pedophilia? Statutory Rape? Where does on draw the line? Where does the moral/ethical/spiritual/legal line get drawn? Does the COTUS protect cross species relationships? Incestuous ones? Same sex ones?

Here's a point to ponder. We prohibit Incestuous relationship due to breeding concerns and well founded ones I might add. What about Homosexual relationships where it is genetically impossible for a child to be conceived. Isn't in the same states interest to have procreation of the species if for no other reason than to ensure that future tax payers are created? Wouldn't that be in the public interest?

Think about it!! If you wanted to ensure that Social Security remain solvent the government could pass two laws. First one is that everyone under 30 must start smoking tobacco which would reduce the life expectancy by 3 to 5 years for millions of Americans. Second we order every married couple to have at least 4 kids so we make sure we have enough taxpayers to fund Social Security going in. More people dying faster and more paying in means solvency for our social safety net.

Weird? No THAT's PROGRESSIVE Logic at it's finest.

 

[Ms Tree]

Are you serious? That hate the gays mentality is so typical of conservative nut jobs. Incestuous offspring did not give consent. It affects a third party. A homosexual relationship between consenting adults does not affect anyone out side the relationship. The COTUS protects relationships between consenting adults. Your hatred for all things gay seems to have blinded you to how US law works. Non-humans and those not old enough for consent do not have legal standing.

Not sure what the rest of the BS if for other than to support a morally and legally bankrupt theory. There is no legal foundation to support the idea of forced child rearing or any of the other idiotic ideas. You seem to have a hard time dealing with the reality we live in.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Are you serious? That hate the gays mentality is so typical of conservative nut jobs. Incestuous offspring did not give consent. It affects a third party. A homosexual relationship between consenting adults does not affect anyone out side the relationship. The COTUS protects relationships between consenting adults. Your hatred for all things gay seems to have blinded you to how US law works. Non-humans and those not old enough for consent do not have legal standing.

Not sure what the rest of the BS if for other than to support a morally and legally bankrupt theory. There is no legal foundation to support the idea of forced child rearing or any of the other idiotic ideas. You seem to have a hard time dealing with the reality we live in.

Well the EMPTY SUIT is trying to force Government run health care down our throats? Morally/ethically is there a difference? Why not force people to have kids and to smoke???? After all it would balance the budget and since the EMPTY SUIT is all about government control it would seem to be a perfect fit.

BTW, just for the record, Mr Epstein's daughter was/is of age and thus could form consent.

Another point to ponder is if Homosexuals are indeed born "that way", then do they possess the ability to legally consent?

Don't accuse me of hating gays as I hate NO ONE. Once again you try to put words in my mouth to discredit a failed argument. Just because we as a society tolerate the KKK, Black Muslims or those with alternative lifestyles does NOT mean we have to confer rights that otherwise don't exist based on sexual preference. Conversely should we ban Amish from procreating? Don't they have rights too? These are examples of a free society, If you are OK with Gays marrying then you have to overlook Dr Epstein's conduct as his daughter was above the age of consent by all known reports. Are HER rights secondary to gays? To Amish? is she a victim of a crime? I don't think she thinks so So why shouldn't she be able to marry her Dad? After all we see less extreme examples of guys my age with girls in their late teens, early twenties. Youg girls who go for older men have a "Daddy Complex"

 

[Ms Tree]

Yes there is a difference but your hatred for anything dem prohibits you from seeing that.

Seems the more you hate something the more desperate and illogical your diatribes become.

If Heteros are indeed born that way do they have the right to consent? That question is beyond assine.

My statement regarding the states interest was n regards to a third party (offspring) who are not of legal age and have no legal standing. They have no choice in the matter.

If two people are of legal age they can do as they wish so long as they do not affect the rights of others. My Ewww factor has no legal standing in their life.

Fine, if it makes you happy to believe you do not hate gays, by all means have at it.

I love how the anti-gay crowd always likes to squeeze bestiality into the argument as if they are in any way related. I think I am going to start associating Christianity with pedophilia and see how that goes.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I think I am going to start associating Christianity with pedophilia and see how that goes.

Be my guest. There is significant evidence to support your contention.

I'm sure you're studied biology and you know about deviant behavior from the norm. Like it or don't Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm. This is irrefutable scientific fact. So is Pedophilia, Bestiality, BDSM, Incest and a few I've likely forgotten.

Certain rights are conferred (to Date) to those within the "norm" as defined by society. Can a child or animal form the requisite consent? NO, they cannot. Can a daughter over the age of consent form the requisite consent? Can someone who is into Kinky Sex (BDSM)? Can gays? The answer to the last three is clearly a resounding YES. So for me that raises a question. Why are Gays the only ones screaming to have rights conferred upon them that will not apply to the other groups. Remember enforced or otherwise certain sexual practices that were once considered kinky and outlawed are now common place. One such act took place in the Oval Office under Bill Clinton or should I say in front of

Why should Gays have any rights conferred upon them that are different than those conferred upon Dr. Epsteins daughter? Is it legal for Dr Epstein to marry his daughter? If the answer is NO, then logic dictates gays don't marry either.

 

[Ms Tree]

Be my guest. There is significant evidence to support your contention.

I'm sure you're studied biology and you know about deviant behavior from the norm. Like it or don't Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm. This is irrefutable scientific fact. So is Pedophilia, Bestiality, BDSM, Incest and a few I've likely forgotten.

Certain rights are conferred (to Date) to those within the "norm" as defined by society. Can a child or animal form the requisite consent? NO, they cannot. Can a daughter over the age of consent form the requisite consent? Can someone who is into Kinky Sex (BDSM)? Can gays? The answer to the last three is clearly a resounding YES. So for me that raises a question. Why are Gays the only ones screaming to have rights conferred upon them that will not apply to the other groups. Remember enforced or otherwise certain sexual practices that were once considered kinky and outlawed are now common place. One such act took place in the Oval Office under Bill Clinton or should I say in front of

Why should Gays have any rights conferred upon them that are different than those conferred upon Dr. Epsteins daughter? Is it legal for Dr Epstein to marry his daughter? If the answer is NO, then logic dictates gays don't marry either.

The fact that you put homosexuality in the same category as bestiality and the rest proves in my mind your opinion on homosexuality.

The only question it raises is why you think they are asking for any special rights. They are asking for the same rights as everyone else. Nothing special. You can keep saying it but that does not make it true. They are asking for the right to marry just like all the heteros can. How that is special is beyond me.

I cannot believe you do not understand the difference between incest and homosexuality. Actually, on second thought I can.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The fact that you put homosexuality in the same category as bestiality and the rest proves in my mind your opinion on homosexuality.

The only question it raises is why you think they are asking for any special rights. They are asking for the same rights as everyone else. Nothing special. You can keep saying it but that does not make it true. They are asking for the right to marry just like all the heteros can. How that is special is beyond me.

I cannot believe you do not understand the difference between incest and homosexuality. Actually, on second thought I can.

OK then Lucy you 'splain it to me. If you noticed when I said Bestiality and Pedophilia are out because one on the participants cannot form the requisite consent.

A consenting adult is a consenting adult is a consenting adult. That's what we hear and that's frankly is what I believe. Oral sex, Anal sex are against the law in a majority of states as is Incest. So why is it OK (In your mind) for Adam & Steve to give each other hummers and join the League of Colon Cowboys and not OK for Dr. Epstein to bang his daughter orally, anally or otherwise? If "Consenting Adults" is the sole criteria who made you the sole arbiter of what kind of sex/marriage is Government approved

Hell why have a society of morals, values & ethics? As long as they're old enough to give consent let bang away!!!! Who cares right?

 

[Ms Tree]

Offspring.

 

[Ms Tree]

OK then Lucy you 'splain it to me. If you noticed when I said Bestiality and Pedophilia are out because one on the participants cannot form the requisite consent.

Not so much.

In your first paragraph you were talking about deviant behavior and by mentioning homosexuality along side the rest you were presenting them as equal.

Only in the next paragraph where you were talking about consent did you mention that children and animals were not the same.

I do not know whether that was your intent (I think it was) but that is what you said.

 

[leprechaun]

May the force be with you.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Not so much.

In your first paragraph you were talking about deviant behavior and by mentioning homosexuality along side the rest you were presenting them as equal.

Only in the next paragraph where you were talking about consent did you mention that children and animals were not the same.

I do not know whether that was your intent (I think it was) but that is what you said.

Deviant is NOT a dirty word. I'm a deviant. My taste in music is preferred by one half of one percent of listeners. People deviate from a great many norms. Another deviant pattern on my part is that 66.2% of all Audi TT's sold in the US are painted a Sliver Metallic color, while mine in a deep green favored by 2.3% of Audi Buyers. So once again I deviate from the norm, which also makes me a discriminating buyer.

Words mean things it's unfortunate that thanks to the Government run schools we're a nation of illiterates. The purpose of language is to illuminate not obfuscate not that you'd know that given the current political climate. We now have words like "Mediscare" thanks to our Progressives who should really be called Regressives as if we continue to follow their policies we'll be back in loin cloths with caves for home, but hey Little Billy's self esteem will be intact and Tarzan can take it in the seat legally.

 

[Ms Tree]

Deviant is NOT a dirty word. I'm a deviant. My taste in music is preferred by one half of one percent of listeners. People deviate from a great many norms. Another deviant pattern on my part is that 66.2% of all Audi TT's sold in the US are painted a Sliver Metallic color, while mine in a deep green favored by 2.3% of Audi Buyers. So once again I deviate from the norm, which also makes me a discriminating buyer.

Words mean things it's unfortunate that thanks to the Government run schools we're a nation of illiterates. The purpose of language is to illuminate not obfuscate not that you'd know that given the current political climate. We now have words like "Mediscare" thanks to our Progressives who should really be called Regressives as if we continue to follow their policies we'll be back in loin cloths with caves for home, but hey Little Billy's self esteem will be intact and Tarzan can take it in the seat legally.

You are correct. Deviant is not a bad word in and of it's self. How ever, when you say that homosexuals are deviant and then continue to include other behaviors such as bestiality and pedophilia as other examples of deviant behavior, it places homosexuality in that same level of deviant behavior. In this instance, deviant means bad and consciously or subconsciously, I believe you meant that association. If you are being truthful in your proclamation that you hate no one, I think you need to examine your feelings because your word association above says other wise.

Secondly, words like symbols or people can take on meanings all their own. The Union flag, the swastika as two examples existed long before the south or the Nazis. These symbols are now associated with the groups that commandeered them not their original meaning. Deviant has taken on a meaning that is negative, especially when the word is used in conjunction with acts that are universally viewed in a negative light.

Government in this case has nothing to do with the interpretation of the words. I wold argue that is more the fault of people such as your self who use the word(s) in a negative context. You could just have easily made the association to people of Mensa, lottery winners or astronauts. You did not and I believe you did it intentionally, or at least subconsciously.

 

[SparrowHawk]

If 90% of a given group, in this case the 280 million who live in the USA have a heterosexual lifestyle then by definition the other 10% are deviant from the norm pure and simple.

People often forget that in the US the COTUS gives us the right to disassociation. To in effect discriminate. If I pick the green Audi I've "Discriminated" against the silver ones.

If we still had an actual education system instead of a fund raising entity for the Democratic Party through AFT & NEA then maybe society would actually understand the definition of the word tolerance and apply it accordingly.

The Progressive movement works best when the population is uneducated. I'm beginning to question if the dumbing down of America isn't part of some grand scheme. Thinking people reject the notion of something for nothing. IMO Gays would be in a much better place if they were as far away from Progressives as humanly possible.

 

[Ms Tree]

Right. What ever you say.