Value of Concessions

[Bob Owens]

Wow! Those property taxes are both eye opening and mind blowing! Looks like Geo pay/COLA should be a definate must have. Do any other airlines have this?

Most of them have some sort of Geo pay. However they are usually limited.

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to say anyone should stop there. (at a decent standard of living). But surely you agree none of us ever expected to make it "rich" in this profession. I'm trying to ask if $2.55 more per hour than the overhaul bases make, will level the playing field with those of us who live in lower cost areas?

We arent even looking for "a level playing field", we accept that the price we pay for living where we choose to live is that we will not have the disposable income you may enjoy, what we expect is a decent standard of living for what we offer where and how we offer it. I've never objected to you guys having a much higher standard of living than we do, thats an option thats open to us as well if we decide that money is more important to us than family and friends, what I've objected to is the willingness to to lower it and insist that we accept less as well because guys in the low cost areas decide they would rather accept a lower standard of living than fight to maintain a very good one, we cant afford it.

 

[Duke787]

One of the things that you dont seem to realize is the effect of the RLA. Because of the RLA the company can drag talks on indefinately so our options to pressure the company into making a fair deal in a timely manner are limited. If you act with "professionalism" they laugh all the way to the bank as they drag talks on and on.


The NMB is not a "neutral", their interests align with those of the company. You need to read up on the history of the RLA to see whats going on here. The RLA was formed because conditions were so bad that there were intermittant disruptions to commerce along the rail systems, so the Government decided that maybe it was a good idea to put up a framework where Unions and Carriers could come to systemwide agreements without causing disruptions to commerce. It was crafted by the industry and the Unions but over time all the things that were favorable to unions were stripped away, so what we are left with is a structure thats there to prevent interruptions to commerce while still putting forth the facade that we are free Americans and have the same rights as other workers.

We dont, we are more like Government workers without the security and benifits.

Your "legal" options to act collectively in your best interests have been eliminated. Your only option is to collectively act individually, if that makes sense. In other words the Union cant tell you to put pressure on the company but if you see the way things are going and you all start putting pressure on the company at the same time, without overt direction from the union you accomplish the same thing. You are doing what the NMB seeks to avoid. Our only weapon, and its a potent one, is to interupt commerce and its the only realistic way to put pressure on the sytem to meet our needs.

In 2003 the company and the union initiated talks to open an existing agreement and amended it within one month, however talks this time started in 2007 and the company is still insisting an more concessions. This was not a negotiated agreement, it was a take it or leave it deal. The negotaitors were lead to believe by the International that we should take it back to the members as is. After three years its obvious that many of the Locals are going broke and the negotiators are worn out from travelling back and forth with very little to show for those efforts.

The Company can afford to wait because inflation continues to extract concessions from us, along with their ability to jack up our Medical by 500%.

The NMB doesnt care whats going on as long as people and goods are being moved by the carrier. So as long as people like you continue to try to live up this idea of "professionalism" neither the NMB nor the company see a problem. They could go on like this indefinately, while your financial situation may become intolerable they figure that since you are still performing adequately that the pay is adequate. That is exactly how both the NMB and the company thinks. Its only when they see lots of airplanes out of service that they take an interest in our problems.

So you can continue to consider yourself as a "professional" while both the NMB and company abuse the system and play you for a fool but thats how things are in this game under these twisted rules. I would much rather be under the NLRA, if we dont have an agreement by the amendable date we can walk out, period, no nonsense, no endless negotations (but only when it in the companys favor) and no games. When you work you give 100%, when you dont have an agreement you dont work untill you do. Clean, clear and easy to follow.

Negotiations started in 2007 for us, in 2006 for Dispatch, so for us our real pay has declined another 9%. Lets say we vote this down, which I hope we do. The company doesnt lose anything really, if they drag things out another year our real pay declines another 3% and as long as guys like you are more concerned about your professional image than your wallet they will continue to drag things out.

What you have before you in this TA is a zero cost contract, if we accept it it costs them nothing, if we reject it it costs them nothing if you are willing to keep doing your best to maintain their schedule. Ironically when it comes to negotiations everything you seem to believe is the opposite, the better you work now the less the company is willing to give, the worse you do the more pressure they feel to throw money at you to try and get back what they know you can deliver. If this deal is ratified the company is going to expect to see an improvement in performance, thats why they targeted what little increases there were towards the line, because our performance is not what it could be.

My position is that this is an unfair deal to all of us and there will be no improvement even if it passes and I hope I'm right. If there is improvement it would only engourage and embolden the company to s4i+ on us even more.

When/if we come to an agreement thats fair i would encourage everyone to give AA their best. If you go back to 2002 thats exactly what I was saying. The comapny broke the deal. We didnt make these rules and we cant change them but we have to find a way to try and level the field while working within them. It may meaning soiling your "image".

I understand your point Bob, but you're still making excuses for mechs to be unprofessional. You bring up a lot of good points, but you are not going to change the laws of the USA by being a slacker, and it is never a good time to be unprofessional in our line of work. Maybe you should look for an industry that treats you "fair" and everything works out the way you want it to. I'm not sure what fairy land that is, but you let us know when you find it.

I'm sure nurse's and doctor's have issue's with their chosen profession, and i hope they don't take your attitude that it is OK to act unprofessional. A lot of lives are in our hand everyday and you should remember that.

You don't like the TA then vote NO, but act like a professional at "YOUR CHOSEN" line of work.


and as always nobody is forcing you to work at AA, plus the 2003 concessions were voted in by the union, the company didn't steal anything from you.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Bob isnt saying to act unprofessional as a matter of fact he is telling you to do your job the way you are suppose to and that is by the book. If we all worked by the book nothing would ever leave the ground. That goes from doing the posted speed limit on the ramp to performing a safety check before you get into a vehicle. When was the last time you went to the IPC to change a reading light to make sure you were using the right bulb?

The contract was not amendable when they took (robbed) everything from us. So get your facts straight. We were only 9 months into the AMFA contract when the company put the fear of bankruptcy in your head and shredded the CBA thanks to your yes vote.

 

[Duke787]

Bob isnt saying to act unprofessional as a matter of fact he is telling you to do your job the way you are suppose to and that is by the book. If we all worked by the book nothing would ever leave the ground. That goes from doing the posted speed limit on the ramp to performing a safety check before you get into a vehicle. When was the last time you went to the IPC to change a reading light to make sure you were using the right bulb?

The contract was not amendable when they took (robbed) everything from us. So get your facts straight. We were only 9 months into the AMFA contract when the company put the fear of bankruptcy in your head and shredded the CBA thanks to your yes vote.

By what you wrote, It sounds like you were not working for AA in 2003 when we all received ballots in the mail to vote on the 2003 MOAC. If they were to impose a contract on us, it would have been done during bankruptcy. So try not to comment on subjects you are not familiar with.

Bob has defended and is defending the mechs that do act unprofessional, but I think it would be better to act strictly by the book rather then go on strike. The only problem with that is our management already knows that guys will give up after a week of "by the book" because to many guys want to go on "break".

Try and give a legitimate argument rather then a personal attack, it makes me think you are just one of Bob or Ken's minions, and lack your own thought process.

I respect Bob and Ken's opinions, I don't agree with some of them, especially with the justification for a mech to act anything other then professional.

 

[enough already]

I find it odd that all these newbies on this board are so concerned about who is doing the most work: Imjustsayin, paul1, interested, just the facts, and duke787. Your badmouthing of fellow employees on this open forum is accomplishing exactly what? I suspect you're all one in the same. Your posts seem to be contrived and self supporting - maybe a little too obvious.....

The crew chief; and for that matter, the rest of the crew should through peer pressure be able to change bad habits of certain employees.

I'm just observing....

There are guys in my shop that are so completely worthless and there is absolutely nothing done about it. In fact our supervisor and manager will come in and bs with them. That's just how it is in the support shops in TUL. Always has been; always will be until the doors close. No amount of peer pressure or whatever will do anything but become fodder for ridicule from the slugs and everybody just laughs it off. Sad but true! 😱

 

[Deleted member 14439]

I made an observation today. When handing out the aip checks it took 3 people. One supervisor to hand out the check, one staff assistant to carry the clipboard for us to sign for said check and then some stooge with a box of cut resistant gloves !!! Yep, at AFW we got gloves too !!! I did not know if I should laugh or cry.........................

 

[DFWTWU]

I made an observation today. When handing out the aip checks it took 3 people. One supervisor to hand out the check, one staff assistant to carry the clipboard for us to sign for said check and then some stooge with a box of cut resistant gloves !!! Yep, at AFW we got gloves too !!! I did not know if I should laugh or cry.........................

No freebies for the clerks this time,not even a "Grand" candy bar like last time.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

No freebies for the clerks this time,not even a "Grand" candy bar like last time.

What, you didn't get two "Gold" chocolate half dollar coins with your check?

 

[DFWTWU]

What, you didn't get two "Gold" chocolate half dollar coins with your check?

New man Pappas is enticing our moral with flat screens for the gate houses.................ain't gonna work !

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob has defended and is defending the mechs that do act unprofessional, but I think it would be better to act strictly by the book rather then go on strike. The only problem with that is our management already knows that guys will give up after a week of "by the book" because to many guys want to go on "break".

Try and give a legitimate argument rather then a personal attack, it makes me think you are just one of Bob or Ken's minions, and lack your own thought process.

I respect Bob and Ken's opinions, I don't agree with some of them, especially with the justification for a mech to act anything other then professional.

I'm not defending unprofessional behavior, I just dispute what you consider that to be. Our tactics to secure a fair wage have to be taylored to the laws that are imposed upon us in order to attempt to level the playing field. If that means making a double trip to the gate so be it. You have to do whatever you can get away with as long as they are doing what they can do to get away with dragging talks on and on with unfair, unrealistic demands. The company isnt being fair and turning the other cheek will just get you smacked again in this game. The fact is that as long as you go out there and put out the same volume of work (we can not vary the quality) the company and the NMB have no incentive to push this to the next critcal step, where they have just as much to lose as we do, where we can come to a new agreement. In one case the NMB allowed a carrier to drag out negotiations for eight years!! Yet when carriers feel they can break a union the NMB releases them right away!!! How do we fight sich unfair tactics? We have to resort to other means, means that you may see as unprofessional but there are no other alternatives. If you can think of something that would put pressure on the company to treat us fairly I'm all ears.

 

[Duke787]

I'm not defending unprofessional behavior, I just dispute what you consider that to be. Our tactics to secure a fair wage have to be taylored to the laws that are imposed upon us in order to attempt to level the playing field. If that means making a double trip to the gate so be it. You have to do whatever you can get away with as long as they are doing what they can do to get away with dragging talks on and on with unfair, unrealistic demands. The company isnt being fair and turning the other cheek will just get you smacked again in this game. The fact is that as long as you go out there and put out the same volume of work (we can not vary the quality) the company and the NMB have no incentive to push this to the next critcal step, where they have just as much to lose as we do, where we can come to a new agreement. In one case the NMB allowed a carrier to drag out negotiations for eight years!! Yet when carriers feel they can break a union the NMB releases them right away!!! How do we fight sich unfair tactics? We have to resort to other means, means that you may see as unprofessional but there are no other alternatives. If you can think of something that would put pressure on the company to treat us fairly I'm all ears.

Acting incompetent at your job isn't going to change the company's mind or the NMB rules. The only thing you accomplish is tarnishing the the airline mechanic profession, and giving more reason's for people to have a low opinion of unions. If we had an effort by every mech to follow the rules and regulations setup by the company, we're doing nothing wrong or illegal, but it will send a message to AA that we're not content with the status quo. Unfortunately not everyone will stick together, because some will want their downtime.

The poor quality of US cars, blamed on union labor, is a reason why Japanese cars were able to take huge market share away from the big 3, and why the southern senators didn't want to have a bailout to the UAW. We don't want to have the same reputation as the UAW, or the teacher's unions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuri7p_9pm4

Making excuse's for guys sleeping or being incompetent because they're not happy with their pay is denigrating to all of us. This should be the last post on this subject, your point is well documented as well as mine. You think your right and I know I'm right. B)

 

[Just the Facts II]

American Airlines mechanics couldn't have rejected a much better contract
Posted Wednesday, Sep. 01, 2010

By Mitchell Schnurman

mschnurman@star-telegram.com

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/31/2437273/american-airlines-mechanics-couldnt.html

Looking for comments.

 

[767 mechanic]

Mr. Schurman has always been a pro company reporter,but what can you expect when AA pays for all the advertisements that they do. The editor knows what side his bread is buttered on also. I always thought that the papers or should I say the reporters are suppose to be unbiased,but that was years ago when the reporters had credability. Its easy to see who he has been talking to by the statement about the basket won't grow,but can be spread around a little more. This was pretty much the same statement that was made by management in Tulsa. I always thought that negotiations was suppose to be give and take,well we gave in 2003 and now it is time for us to TAKE for our families since management has done this for the last seven years. Oh yes and as far as Mr. Schurman's sensitiveity to the people that read the Star-telegram you would think he would check the pictures that he uses. Although he does say that the photo was taken in 2009 he did not do his research to find out that the man in the picture had passed away in Feb 2010. This can be found in jetnet to those of you that have access. This in my opinion is very disrespectful to the family of this gentleman in the picture and deserves an apology to the family along with an apology to the readers of the star-telegram on the front page of the business section where the article was originally printed and not put on the back of the last page. Anything short of this will show that the star-telgram does not care about the people that read the paper or their families of those people,but more about the money that you pay them for the paper. If they do not issue an apology in the way that I have mentioned I would suggest that everybody cancel their subsription to the paper. Contact them to let them know why and that if they ever decide to read the paper again that they will do it online where they do not recieve any revenue.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

By what you wrote, It sounds like you were not working for AA in 2003 when we all received ballots in the mail to vote on the 2003 MOAC. If they were to impose a contract on us, it would have been done during bankruptcy. So try not to comment on subjects you are not familiar with.

Bob has defended and is defending the mechs that do act unprofessional, but I think it would be better to act strictly by the book rather then go on strike. The only problem with that is our management already knows that guys will give up after a week of "by the book" because to many guys want to go on "break".

Try and give a legitimate argument rather then a personal attack, it makes me think you are just one of Bob or Ken's minions, and lack your own thought process.

I respect Bob and Ken's opinions, I don't agree with some of them, especially with the justification for a mech to act anything other then professional.

You are clueless. You recieved a ballot for what. Our contract was not amendable or up for negotiations. But ballots were sent out to open the current CBA and shred it to pieces. When AA was making money hand over fist to the tune of a billion dollar profit during the 1995 contract did they open the CBA and say lets renegotiate we are making so much money we need to pay you more. No they told us to go pound salt. But when they threatened bankruptcy in 2003 (the AMFA contract) you and your kind willingly bent over and willingly gave it all away instead of telling them to go pound salt. I was there I voted NO