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USAirways Purchases Domain Name for AA Merger
- Thread starter Hope777
- Start date
signals
Veteran
The sandcastle's merger kool ade is a bit strong this year
Iclubbabyseals
Veteran
- Jul 22, 2011
- 793
- 350
- Banned
- #33
All sugar and no substance, as usual.The sandcastle's merger kool ade is a bit strong this year
Ok, fair question.. But first you're going to have to put your "Try hard" pants on and follow closely.
If I were to even consider putting a price on my support for a AA/LCC combination, every other option would have to be off the table. Right now AA has 460 firm order for new aircraft, and another 485 options. The plan being worked on calld for growth. How much of the 20% actually come out in the final plan remains to be seen. Based on the numbers presented and a letter posted yesterday to pilots from the VP of flight, and, conversation with my chief, we're looking at 1500 new captain jobs, and a couple of thousand new hire pilots for attrition and growth. Did you notice my use of the term "new hire"? Do you understand the impact to the bottom line of new hires? Not to mention the fresh boost of enthusiasm that comes with that? No seniority integration, no sub standard network to deal with, etc.
Our 1113c term sheet is nowhere near the 50% pay hit promised by one of your own on this board..
In terms of the "term sheet" and what will most certainly happen (a negotiated agreement) you'll see some onerous things, but mostly movement off of the terms AA would like to see. We're already seeing movement off the pension termination (and the PBGC's vote direction on the creditors committee).
Its not unreasonable to assume that there will be a negotiated settlement. To date, in there industry, there always has been.
Here's Delta's 1113 term vs settlement pages:
http://project7alpha.com/wp1/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Delta1113_opener_vs._loa_51.pdf
Here's NWA's
http://project7alpha.com/wp1/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/20060413-NWA-ALPA-Across-the-Table-1113c_TA-comparison.pdf
So, if for whatever reason, this POR de-rails, then at the end of the recently extended period of exclusivity, others would be able to submit a plan to the court and creditors. The press is reporting DAL has interest in AA. The universe knows Dougie doesn't know what to do with LCC beyond folding as much of it as he can into another entity, and will make a hostile offer for the company. Who else? Yet to be seen. Surely there will be others.
So, lets fast forward..
All those other options go away. What remains is an offer from Dougie...
Lets look a little closer at that (rumored) 14 billion $$. Where does it come from and in what form? Is it stock in the new company? LCC stock(current market cap 1.1billion)? How does it get financed? How is the debt (uh oh.. debt has to be serviced) Does the new company go private? Each possible scenario raises a lot of questions. -AND- a lot of concerns.
Network strength: There was an article a couple of weeks ago about how Kirby is on a committee to study how LCC can address AA's network deficiencies. Big problem.. What does this mean? Does LCC suggest it should dismantle parts of its own network to build onto AA's network? (Hmmm, we've got shine new jets on the way to do just that, and thank you for paying for an analysis that we can use to cross check our own work with.
)LCC's network works because it is supported with bottom of the market compensation packages. Many comments from analysts and Parker himself stating the same. If LCC cannibalizes its own network to build on AA's that networks revenue generating ability is compromised. One of your own has held up on a couple of occasions that the 13B$ annual revenue generation is something somebody will want. The fatal flaw with that logic is that that 13B in revenue falls off a cliff when you bump up compensation packages. ( and you say "show me the money" ?) Then you have the dependency of RJ's to make that revenue possible. As fuel continues to climb, the LCC network is affected disproportionately to the industry, because three out of five departure are on RJ's.
I'm personally skeptical of how desirable the PHL and CLT hubs would be for AA. I can see Reagan, and what remains in NYC. PHX/LAS? Meh...
Seniority:
Get a grip.. After watching you clowns since he Nic award, who in their right mind would want anything to do with you goons?
So, here we are now with my price....
Looking at what would have to be done, the cost of the integration, the cancellation of our orders, and essentially replacing them with your fleet, robbing us of our upgrades and new hire growth, the questionable strength of the combined network that would still be lagging in the NYC and LAX gateways, the senior topped out and much older workgroup LCC would bring to the dance, the questionable DURABILITY of the combined operation....
There ain't enough money out there to get my support.
Period.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
US Airways could have registered the domain names to begin building websites to announce the merger, advertise the merger, and negotiate directly with the employees similar to what AMR did at www.restructuringamr.com
Dude, since you side stepped my question last time and droned on with some sanctimonious B.S., I'll ask you again, Of the merger options out there for AA, are there better merger candidates than LCC? I'm only speaking in terms of mergers, to make it easier for you. I'll even narrow it down to two.
AS and B6.
Your turn.
AS and B6.
Your turn.
EastCheats
Veteran
- Mar 12, 2012
- 1,944
- 6,141
Great post AA.
I'd run, Delta saw what was coming with these clowns. We are still trying to clean this mess up that Douggie dumped on our doorstep in Arizona. Weak management has empowered the goons who formed a so-called union to trample the rights of the minority. It drives them nuts that we are not letting them have their way.
I hope AA can work through their problems without US.
Good luck!
N965VJ
Veteran
Maybe; I waited until after the merger was announced 12 years ago before putting a UA crew tag on my bag.
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
Ok, fair question.. But first you're going to have to put your "Try hard" pants on and follow closely.
If I were to even consider putting a price on my support for a AA/LCC combination, every other option would have to be off the table. Right now AA has 460 firm order for new aircraft, and another 485 options. The plan being worked on calld for growth. How much of the 20% actually come out in the final plan remains to be seen. Based on the numbers presented and a letter posted yesterday to pilots from the VP of flight, and, conversation with my chief, we're looking at 1500 new captain jobs, and a couple of thousand new hire pilots for attrition and growth. Did you notice my use of the term "new hire"? Do you understand the impact to the bottom line of new hires? Not to mention the fresh boost of enthusiasm that comes with that? No seniority integration, no sub standard network to deal with, etc.
Our 1113c term sheet is nowhere near the 50% pay hit promised by one of your own on this board..
In terms of the "term sheet" and what will most certainly happen (a negotiated agreement) you'll see some onerous things, but mostly movement off of the terms AA would like to see. We're already seeing movement off the pension termination (and the PBGC's vote direction on the creditors committee).
Its not unreasonable to assume that there will be a negotiated settlement. To date, in there industry, there always has been.
Here's Delta's 1113 term vs settlement pages:
http://project7alpha.com/wp1/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Delta1113_opener_vs._loa_51.pdf
Here's NWA's
http://project7alpha.com/wp1/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/20060413-NWA-ALPA-Across-the-Table-1113c_TA-comparison.pdf
So, if for whatever reason, this POR de-rails, then at the end of the recently extended period of exclusivity, others would be able to submit a plan to the court and creditors. The press is reporting DAL has interest in AA. The universe knows Dougie doesn't know what to do with LCC beyond folding as much of it as he can into another entity, and will make a hostile offer for the company. Who else? Yet to be seen. Surely there will be others.
So, lets fast forward..
All those other options go away. What remains is an offer from Dougie...
Lets look a little closer at that (rumored) 14 billion $$. Where does it come from and in what form? Is it stock in the new company? LCC stock(current market cap 1.1billion)? How does it get financed? How is the debt (uh oh.. debt has to be serviced) Does the new company go private? Each possible scenario raises a lot of questions. -AND- a lot of concerns.
Network strength: There was an article a couple of weeks ago about how Kirby is on a committee to study how LCC can address AA's network deficiencies. Big problem.. What does this mean? Does LCC suggest it should dismantle parts of its own network to build onto AA's network? (Hmmm, we've got shine new jets on the way to do just that, and thank you for paying for an analysis that we can use to cross check our own work with.
LCC's network works because it is supported with bottom of the market compensation packages. Many comments from analysts and Parker himself stating the same. If LCC cannibalizes its own network to build on AA's that networks revenue generating ability is compromised. One of your own has held up on a couple of occasions that the 13B$ annual revenue generation is something somebody will want. The fatal flaw with that logic is that that 13B in revenue falls off a cliff when you bump up compensation packages. ( and you say "show me the money" ?) Then you have the dependency of RJ's to make that revenue possible. As fuel continues to climb, the LCC network is affected disproportionately to the industry, because three out of five departure are on RJ's.
I'm personally skeptical of how desirable the PHL and CLT hubs would be for AA. I can see Reagan, and what remains in NYC. PHX/LAS? Meh...
Seniority:
Get a grip.. After watching you clowns since he Nic award, who in their right mind would want anything to do with you goons?
So, here we are now with my price....
Looking at what would have to be done, the cost of the integration, the cancellation of our orders, and essentially replacing them with your fleet, robbing us of our upgrades and new hire growth, the questionable strength of the combined network that would still be lagging in the NYC and LAX gateways, the senior topped out and much older workgroup LCC would bring to the dance, the questionable DURABILITY of the combined operation....
There ain't enough money out there to get my support.
Period.
That was a long post. I have spent less time worrying about a merger than it would take to read that post.
Yea, took all of 4 minutes to type it up..That was a long post. I have spent less time worrying about a merger than it would take to read that post.
And,
Thats all you got?
No quid pro quo?
PullUp asked a question and I gave him an answer...
A rarity around this place when it comes to the likes of "U"..
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
Been doing some reading and what I find interesting is not what's being said publicly, but rather what is NOT being said. This comment from CEO Horton for example.
Ever since the domain registries became public knowledge the conversation has gotten all ducky dodgy and that usually means things are happening behind closed doors.
I think it's better than 50-50 that US and AA will Merge
Ever since the domain registries became public knowledge the conversation has gotten all ducky dodgy and that usually means things are happening behind closed doors.
I think it's better than 50-50 that US and AA will Merge
PullUp
Veteran
- May 22, 2010
- 820
- 736
1. Forget the new aircraft. It's just whitewash. Rule #1 is: If management's lips are moving, you know they are lying. We were promised more airplanes than god could count. We got Repugnant E170s, Mesa CRJ-700s, and Air Wizzer CRJ's. However, no new mainline aircraft that grew the airline. Bottom line: don't believe it until they are parked at the gate. So, along with that, stagnant growth in personnel (no captains seats except for attrition).Ok, fair question.. But first you're going to have to put your "Try hard" pants on and follow closely.
If I were to even consider putting a price on my support for a AA/LCC combination, every other option would have to be off the table. Right now AA has 460 firm order for new aircraft, and another 485 options. The plan being worked on calld for growth. How much of the 20% actually come out in the final plan remains to be seen. Based on the numbers presented and a letter posted yesterday to pilots from the VP of flight, and, conversation with my chief, we're looking at 1500 new captain jobs, and a couple of thousand new hire pilots for attrition and growth. Did you notice my use of the term "new hire"? Do you understand the impact to the bottom line of new hires? Not to mention the fresh boost of enthusiasm that comes with that? No seniority integration, no sub standard network to deal with, etc.
Our 1113c term sheet is nowhere near the 50% pay hit promised by one of your own on this board..
In terms of the "term sheet" and what will most certainly happen (a negotiated agreement) you'll see some onerous things, but mostly movement off of the terms AA would like to see. We're already seeing movement off the pension termination (and the PBGC's vote direction on the creditors committee).
Its not unreasonable to assume that there will be a negotiated settlement. To date, in there industry, there always has been.
Here's Delta's 1113 term vs settlement pages:
http://project7alpha.com/wp1/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Delta1113_opener_vs._loa_51.pdf
Here's NWA's
http://project7alpha.com/wp1/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/20060413-NWA-ALPA-Across-the-Table-1113c_TA-comparison.pdf
So, if for whatever reason, this POR de-rails, then at the end of the recently extended period of exclusivity, others would be able to submit a plan to the court and creditors. The press is reporting DAL has interest in AA. The universe knows Dougie doesn't know what to do with LCC beyond folding as much of it as he can into another entity, and will make a hostile offer for the company. Who else? Yet to be seen. Surely there will be others.
So, lets fast forward..
All those other options go away. What remains is an offer from Dougie...
Lets look a little closer at that (rumored) 14 billion $$. Where does it come from and in what form? Is it stock in the new company? LCC stock(current market cap 1.1billion)? How does it get financed? How is the debt (uh oh.. debt has to be serviced) Does the new company go private? Each possible scenario raises a lot of questions. -AND- a lot of concerns.
Network strength: There was an article a couple of weeks ago about how Kirby is on a committee to study how LCC can address AA's network deficiencies. Big problem.. What does this mean? Does LCC suggest it should dismantle parts of its own network to build onto AA's network? (Hmmm, we've got shine new jets on the way to do just that, and thank you for paying for an analysis that we can use to cross check our own work with.
LCC's network works because it is supported with bottom of the market compensation packages. Many comments from analysts and Parker himself stating the same. If LCC cannibalizes its own network to build on AA's that networks revenue generating ability is compromised. One of your own has held up on a couple of occasions that the 13B$ annual revenue generation is something somebody will want. The fatal flaw with that logic is that that 13B in revenue falls off a cliff when you bump up compensation packages. ( and you say "show me the money" ?) Then you have the dependency of RJ's to make that revenue possible. As fuel continues to climb, the LCC network is affected disproportionately to the industry, because three out of five departure are on RJ's.
I'm personally skeptical of how desirable the PHL and CLT hubs would be for AA. I can see Reagan, and what remains in NYC. PHX/LAS? Meh...
Seniority:
Get a grip.. After watching you clowns since he Nic award, who in their right mind would want anything to do with you goons?
So, here we are now with my price....
Looking at what would have to be done, the cost of the integration, the cancellation of our orders, and essentially replacing them with your fleet, robbing us of our upgrades and new hire growth, the questionable strength of the combined network that would still be lagging in the NYC and LAX gateways, the senior topped out and much older workgroup LCC would bring to the dance, the questionable DURABILITY of the combined operation....
There ain't enough money out there to get my support.
Period.
BTW, I work with new hires every day. They are enthusiastic - sure - for your sorry ass to retire, quit, or die so they can move up.
2. Dude, whatever the company is trying to sell you now on your 'term sheet', it's just round one. This is managment's golden opportunity to absolutely skewer your contract. Once you sign off on the work rules, they'll be back sayin' "sorry guys, but we need more on the pay rates" (said in the most somber tone they can muster).
I agree with most everything else you've stated. Dougie has stated publicly that investment bankers are calling unsolicited offering to fund a merger. I don't think getting money will be a problem.
I don't think it'll go private. These sharks want their reward. Fund it, get a stake, then sell it off on the IPO runup. Fast money is what they are after.
Kirby has floated the idea a tearing down our structure in favor of building AA's. It got real quiet after he said that. I don't think he'll be saying it again.
Yep, we have 52% of our flying outsourced to other airlines. That sucks 'cause we used to do all that stuff. Some of the contracts, Air Wiz for sure, are due to expire in a year or two.
Dougie has also stated that he has too many RJ's but can't get rid of them because of the contracts. I think a large portion of RJ flying will be eliminated when it can be.
All that said, I think mergers always turn out bad for the employees, so I sympathize with your views.
Bottom line is that support or not, it's out of our hands.
Cheers.
Yea, those guys that just started Bus school are a figment of my imagination. The first 321's are going to be used west coast to Hawaii. But you're right. Lots of moving parts, so anything can change.
You know, you asked what my price was and I told you. Now you say it doesn't matter because the wizards behind the curtain could care less if labor is on board. Then Kirby says he need labor support for it to work...
I guess we'll see when the dust settles...
Have a good weekend.
You know, you asked what my price was and I told you. Now you say it doesn't matter because the wizards behind the curtain could care less if labor is on board. Then Kirby says he need labor support for it to work...
I guess we'll see when the dust settles...
Have a good weekend.
Beancounter
Veteran
- Jun 28, 2009
- 1,378
- 1,817
Ok, fair question.. But first you're going to have to put your "Try hard" pants on and follow closely.
If I were to even consider putting a price on my support for a AA/LCC combination, every other option would have to be off the table. Right now AA has 460 firm order for new aircraft, and another 485 options. The plan being worked on calld for growth. How much of the 20% actually come out in the final plan remains to be seen. Based on the numbers presented and a letter posted yesterday to pilots from the VP of flight, and, conversation with my chief, we're looking at 1500 new captain jobs, and a couple of thousand new hire pilots for attrition and growth. Did you notice my use of the term "new hire"? Do you understand the impact to the bottom line of new hires? Not to mention the fresh boost of enthusiasm that comes with that? No seniority integration, no sub standard network to deal with, etc.
Our 1113c term sheet is nowhere near the 50% pay hit promised by one of your own on this board..
In terms of the "term sheet" and what will most certainly happen (a negotiated agreement) you'll see some onerous things, but mostly movement off of the terms AA would like to see. We're already seeing movement off the pension termination (and the PBGC's vote direction on the creditors committee).
Its not unreasonable to assume that there will be a negotiated settlement. To date, in there industry, there always has been.
Here's Delta's 1113 term vs settlement pages:
http://project7alpha.com/wp1/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Delta1113_opener_vs._loa_51.pdf
Here's NWA's
http://project7alpha.com/wp1/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/20060413-NWA-ALPA-Across-the-Table-1113c_TA-comparison.pdf
So, if for whatever reason, this POR de-rails, then at the end of the recently extended period of exclusivity, others would be able to submit a plan to the court and creditors. The press is reporting DAL has interest in AA. The universe knows Dougie doesn't know what to do with LCC beyond folding as much of it as he can into another entity, and will make a hostile offer for the company. Who else? Yet to be seen. Surely there will be others.
So, lets fast forward..
All those other options go away. What remains is an offer from Dougie...
Lets look a little closer at that (rumored) 14 billion $$. Where does it come from and in what form? Is it stock in the new company? LCC stock(current market cap 1.1billion)? How does it get financed? How is the debt (uh oh.. debt has to be serviced) Does the new company go private? Each possible scenario raises a lot of questions. -AND- a lot of concerns.
Network strength: There was an article a couple of weeks ago about how Kirby is on a committee to study how LCC can address AA's network deficiencies. Big problem.. What does this mean? Does LCC suggest it should dismantle parts of its own network to build onto AA's network? (Hmmm, we've got shine new jets on the way to do just that, and thank you for paying for an analysis that we can use to cross check our own work with.
LCC's network works because it is supported with bottom of the market compensation packages. Many comments from analysts and Parker himself stating the same. If LCC cannibalizes its own network to build on AA's that networks revenue generating ability is compromised. One of your own has held up on a couple of occasions that the 13B$ annual revenue generation is something somebody will want. The fatal flaw with that logic is that that 13B in revenue falls off a cliff when you bump up compensation packages. ( and you say "show me the money" ?) Then you have the dependency of RJ's to make that revenue possible. As fuel continues to climb, the LCC network is affected disproportionately to the industry, because three out of five departure are on RJ's.
I'm personally skeptical of how desirable the PHL and CLT hubs would be for AA. I can see Reagan, and what remains in NYC. PHX/LAS? Meh...
Seniority:
Get a grip.. After watching you clowns since he Nic award, who in their right mind would want anything to do with you goons?
So, here we are now with my price....
Looking at what would have to be done, the cost of the integration, the cancellation of our orders, and essentially replacing them with your fleet, robbing us of our upgrades and new hire growth, the questionable strength of the combined network that would still be lagging in the NYC and LAX gateways, the senior topped out and much older workgroup LCC would bring to the dance, the questionable DURABILITY of the combined operation....
There ain't enough money out there to get my support.
Period.
I don't know what Kirby was smoking to think he could ever get the support of labor after the mess they've allowed here to continue (to their benefit).
If I was going into a seniority integration I'd be waving that aircraft order and the 20% growth too, good call. In reality though, you're CEOs exit plan is a joke. 20% growth? Really? He'll have American right back in bankruptcy, while causing damage to other carriers.
