US incident at PHL
- Thread starter Dont call me Shirley
- Start date
Beancounter
Veteran
- Jun 28, 2009
- 1,378
- 1,817
[SIZE=10.5pt]Sorry, I think it was my fault by starting it. The point I was trying to make was being thankful for not having people ask me to speculate about the nose gear failure at a large gathering. Plenty of corporate travel types and retired leisure travelers were there that fly on Alaska, American or Delta. I think if I had been asked my response would have just been, "Sully rules!"nycbusdriver said:
Seriously, he made us look really good in the eyes of John Q. Public.[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Bean[/SIZE]
Beancounter
Veteran
- Jun 28, 2009
- 1,378
- 1,817
algflyr said:
[SIZE=10.5pt]Agreed, it is painful to look at, but I can't tell the difference between a tail scraped on landing and one scraped by takeoff.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Bean[/SIZE]
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
It's been a while, but seems like you have to really work to get the tail on a 319...Beancounter said:
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
You're right...still quite a feat.wings396 said:
OP
Dont call me Shirley
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,270
- 306
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #68
Came across this about trim issues on the 320.on another site. At the risk of speculating, it could be similar:
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2002/A02_06_07.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2002/A02_06_07.pdf
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
Procedures were changed years ago to use CG instead of UNITS to set takeoff trim on the A320 family to keep this from happening.Dont call me Shirley said:
snapthis
Veteran
- Dec 23, 2009
- 4,236
- 6,907
8 lessons we can learn from the aborted flight of US Airways flight 1702
by NED LEVI on MARCH 17, 2014
By now, youve likely read about US Airways flight 1702, Philadelphia (PHL) to Ft. Lauderdale (FLL), scheduled for late afternoon on March 13th. Initial news reports indicated the Airbus A320 with 149 passengers and five crew on board, blew a tire during the takeoff. With the nose gear already off the ground, the pilot aborted the flight. Other reports indicate a fire in one of the engines during takeoff. When the nose gear hit the ground hard, it collapsed, causing the planes nose to hit the tarmac and the plane to skid off the runway.
Eventually, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will learn what happened on flight 1702, which is important. But, Im more concerned about what airplane passengers can learn from the incident.
Larry Grant, a passenger on the ill fated flight, told reporters,
It happened very quickly, so we didnt know exactly what was going on. Almost instantaneously people from the back were screaming fire, fire,
Passengers began to evacuate moments after hearing about the fire, as can be seen on this video. As someone who has spoken to countless airline personnel over the years, several things struck me about the passengers in the video and in other images of the evacuation.
The window emergency exit over the wing above the smoking engine was opened despite passengers observing the engine was on fire, and was used for the evacuation despite the engine still spewing smoke.
Many passengers stayed near the aircraft in spite of seeing one of the planes engines smoking.
Passengers took time to take selfies in front of the crashed plane, and a few were taking cell phone videos, rather than get away from the aircraft quickly.
Many passengers held their carry-on luggage as they slid down the evacuation chutes, which slowed the evacuation and endangered fellow passengers.
Quite a few passengers were dressed for the weather in Ft. Lauderdale, not Philadelphia, and some women were wearing high heels as they slid down the evacuation chutes.
Many passengers jumped on the chutes and collided with others in the back and head at the chutes bottom, mainly because other passengers were carrying lots of belongings and having a hard time getting up from the chute.
Ive written about plane crash survival before, such as in my column, Maximize your survival odds with this air passenger preflight checklist. Preparation is important, but so is each air passengers conduct during and immediately following a crash.
Here are the eight lessons I have learned to keep myself as safe as possible in the event of an airplane mishap or crash. They were validated by the evacuation of US1702.
Count the number of rows from my seat to the nearest emergency exit, both in front and behind me, in case theres smoke obscuring vision during an evacuation.
Dress appropriately. Did you see the man in shorts and the women in very short dresses and no coats coming off the plane in the video, as it was cold and windy that day? They undoubtedly got very cold waiting to be picked up by the buses. I would have put a warm jacket under the seat in front of me, for a quick grab, just in case. Im cognizant that about 80 percent of airplane accidents occur during the first 3 to 5 minutes of flight, and the last 10 minutes.
Review the airplane safety card after boarding, even if Ive flown in the same or similar plane.
From personal experience, I know airplane cabins can be chaotic during emergency evacuations. Youve got to remain calm, make good decisions, and follow procedure.
If its cold, grab your coat, but leave your carry-ons, as they will slow your evacuation, and endanger you and your fellow passengers.
If youre at an emergency exit if you see fire, dont open the door. In the case of flight 1702, the emergency exit over the wing holding the engine spewing smoke and some fire should not have been opened. If the fire flared up, it could have gone into the cabin through the emergency exit.
High heels are nothing but trouble in case of a crash. If you need heels at your destination, change into them after you land. Never wear heels on an evacuation chute as your heel can get caught, flip you, and cause a broken leg.
When you get to the bottom of the evacuation chute, get off quickly so you arent injured by someone coming down the chute behind you.
Wait to take that selfie, and the video of the crashed plane until youre safely away from it. Once youre off the chute, leave the area immediately. Get behind something solid, such as an embankment or fire vehicle, if possible. In case of a fire and an explosion, shrapnel can fly great distances and seriously injure or kill passengers who safely evacuated from the plane.
Be smart. Dont copy the actions of the passengers of flight 1702, seen in the videos.
- See more at: http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/8-lessons-we-can-learn-from-the-aborted-flight-of-us-airways-flight-1702/#sthash.HrbTer73.dpuf
by NED LEVI on MARCH 17, 2014
By now, youve likely read about US Airways flight 1702, Philadelphia (PHL) to Ft. Lauderdale (FLL), scheduled for late afternoon on March 13th. Initial news reports indicated the Airbus A320 with 149 passengers and five crew on board, blew a tire during the takeoff. With the nose gear already off the ground, the pilot aborted the flight. Other reports indicate a fire in one of the engines during takeoff. When the nose gear hit the ground hard, it collapsed, causing the planes nose to hit the tarmac and the plane to skid off the runway.
Eventually, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will learn what happened on flight 1702, which is important. But, Im more concerned about what airplane passengers can learn from the incident.
Larry Grant, a passenger on the ill fated flight, told reporters,
It happened very quickly, so we didnt know exactly what was going on. Almost instantaneously people from the back were screaming fire, fire,
Passengers began to evacuate moments after hearing about the fire, as can be seen on this video. As someone who has spoken to countless airline personnel over the years, several things struck me about the passengers in the video and in other images of the evacuation.
The window emergency exit over the wing above the smoking engine was opened despite passengers observing the engine was on fire, and was used for the evacuation despite the engine still spewing smoke.
Many passengers stayed near the aircraft in spite of seeing one of the planes engines smoking.
Passengers took time to take selfies in front of the crashed plane, and a few were taking cell phone videos, rather than get away from the aircraft quickly.
Many passengers held their carry-on luggage as they slid down the evacuation chutes, which slowed the evacuation and endangered fellow passengers.
Quite a few passengers were dressed for the weather in Ft. Lauderdale, not Philadelphia, and some women were wearing high heels as they slid down the evacuation chutes.
Many passengers jumped on the chutes and collided with others in the back and head at the chutes bottom, mainly because other passengers were carrying lots of belongings and having a hard time getting up from the chute.
Ive written about plane crash survival before, such as in my column, Maximize your survival odds with this air passenger preflight checklist. Preparation is important, but so is each air passengers conduct during and immediately following a crash.
Here are the eight lessons I have learned to keep myself as safe as possible in the event of an airplane mishap or crash. They were validated by the evacuation of US1702.
Count the number of rows from my seat to the nearest emergency exit, both in front and behind me, in case theres smoke obscuring vision during an evacuation.
Dress appropriately. Did you see the man in shorts and the women in very short dresses and no coats coming off the plane in the video, as it was cold and windy that day? They undoubtedly got very cold waiting to be picked up by the buses. I would have put a warm jacket under the seat in front of me, for a quick grab, just in case. Im cognizant that about 80 percent of airplane accidents occur during the first 3 to 5 minutes of flight, and the last 10 minutes.
Review the airplane safety card after boarding, even if Ive flown in the same or similar plane.
From personal experience, I know airplane cabins can be chaotic during emergency evacuations. Youve got to remain calm, make good decisions, and follow procedure.
If its cold, grab your coat, but leave your carry-ons, as they will slow your evacuation, and endanger you and your fellow passengers.
If youre at an emergency exit if you see fire, dont open the door. In the case of flight 1702, the emergency exit over the wing holding the engine spewing smoke and some fire should not have been opened. If the fire flared up, it could have gone into the cabin through the emergency exit.
High heels are nothing but trouble in case of a crash. If you need heels at your destination, change into them after you land. Never wear heels on an evacuation chute as your heel can get caught, flip you, and cause a broken leg.
When you get to the bottom of the evacuation chute, get off quickly so you arent injured by someone coming down the chute behind you.
Wait to take that selfie, and the video of the crashed plane until youre safely away from it. Once youre off the chute, leave the area immediately. Get behind something solid, such as an embankment or fire vehicle, if possible. In case of a fire and an explosion, shrapnel can fly great distances and seriously injure or kill passengers who safely evacuated from the plane.
Be smart. Dont copy the actions of the passengers of flight 1702, seen in the videos.
- See more at: http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/8-lessons-we-can-learn-from-the-aborted-flight-of-us-airways-flight-1702/#sthash.HrbTer73.dpuf
nevergiveup
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2010
- 2,125
- 2,148
If there is a fire, you may not need your coat after all.
PullUp
Veteran
- May 22, 2010
- 820
- 736
Great essay on evacuating the aircraft. I'm afraid it's preaching to the choir though. Would be nice to have the press echo your points to educate the public.
The airline industry tends to shy away from this stuff as it scares the passengers.
I would add one point: The best place to wait for further assistance after the evac is upwind. I know, the average joe doesn't know or can't figure out where that is.
So, I would suggest 50 feet directly in front of the aircraft (but off the pavement - you don't want to get run over by emergency vehicles). It keeps you out of any smoke, and if something explodes, shrapnel is more likely to radiate out to the sides of the fuselage.
Cheers.
The airline industry tends to shy away from this stuff as it scares the passengers.
I would add one point: The best place to wait for further assistance after the evac is upwind. I know, the average joe doesn't know or can't figure out where that is.
So, I would suggest 50 feet directly in front of the aircraft (but off the pavement - you don't want to get run over by emergency vehicles). It keeps you out of any smoke, and if something explodes, shrapnel is more likely to radiate out to the sides of the fuselage.
Cheers.
Unfortunately todays society has lost touch with reality. With technology making us a stupid society from using common sense it will almost happen in every field not just aviation. No one thinks ahead a step or two in case a emergency or alternate plan should happen. People are too busy today texting and talking on their phones while they should be paying attention to their surroundings. I see it everyday on the streets and at work.
I believe it is called situational awareness. Remember that woman on the news that walked into a fountain at a shopping mall because she was walking and texting at the same time?
How about that guy in California who walked right up to a black bear on the sidewalk because he was texting instead of paying attention to where he was walking. How sad but it is common place today.
I believe it is called situational awareness. Remember that woman on the news that walked into a fountain at a shopping mall because she was walking and texting at the same time?
How about that guy in California who walked right up to a black bear on the sidewalk because he was texting instead of paying attention to where he was walking. How sad but it is common place today.
nevergiveup
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2010
- 2,125
- 2,148
Taking a selfie will hurt your chances for financial compensation due to stress.
Similar threads
