US/DL ask DOT to review Slot swap again

[Pilot692]

I don't work for WN. I don't work for any airline.

You're not thinking about it from an antitrust law perspective - but I am. The antitrust harm in the proposed DL/US deal is the increased market concentration of DL and US at LGA and DCA, respectively. The feds proposed a remedy and DL and US should have accepted it in a heartbeat. Instead, they arrogantly rejected the feds' position and devised a scheme to divest fewer slots and in such a way as to attempt to prevent WN from getting them. The feds rightly rejected the alternative remedy. Of course slots can be bought and sold - but the Clayton Act prohibits mergers and asset acquisitions where the feds believe the acquirer is gaining too much market power. That WN might convince others to part with their slots at DCA and LGA doesn't change the fact that the feds have determined that DL and US want to exercise too much market power.

The rest of your arguments are based on emotions and not on the market power that DL and US are attempting to gain at LGA and DCA. What other airlines get to do without government interference has nothing to do with the decision.

Excellent analysis. Time for A/T to dust off their capes once again.

 

[psw737]

Not sure what is actually going on with this but there is a rumor that in addition to the slot swap there will be some sort of asset swap including aircraft. Heard this from a buddy at Delta and it just popped up on another website. It mentions swapping 330's for 767-300's and possibly 319/320 aircraft. Find it hard to believe but you never know??????

 

[700UW]

US isnt going to get rid of new and fairly new A330s, for older 767-300s, nor get rid of A320s.

 

[goneflyin]

Not sure what is actually going on with this but there is a rumor that in addition to the slot swap there will be some sort of asset swap including aircraft. Heard this from a buddy at Delta and it just popped up on another website. It mentions swapping 330's for 767-300's and possibly 319/320 aircraft. Find it hard to believe but you never know??????

That rumor doesn't pass the common-sense test...

 

[JayBrian]

Not sure what is actually going on with this but there is a rumor that in addition to the slot swap there will be some sort of asset swap including aircraft. Heard this from a buddy at Delta and it just popped up on another website. It mentions swapping 330's for 767-300's and possibly 319/320 aircraft. Find it hard to believe but you never know??????

I saw on another website (not sure if its the one you refer to) the rumor of a swap of eight A330s for eight B767-300s. It doesn't make sense unless some cash is involved too.

What is the range of Delta's B767-300s compared to USAirways A330s?

 

[psw737]

That rumor doesn't pass the common-sense test...

I never said it made sense, you ought to know by now that most things that occur in this business don't make sense. Was just passing along something I heard the other day, and sure enough a week later the same exact thing pops up on another website. Nothing would surprise me. It was a swap of future 330 orders for 767-300s now and somehow we were getting additional 320 series aircraft in addition to the 12 or so we were receiving later this year.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Do you have a link to the other site ? I can't find anything out there.

 

[psw737]

Do you have a link to the other site ? I can't find anything out there.

airliners.net under forums and civil aviation. The thread is titled dl/us slot swap still on or something similar.

 

[700UW]

Its just another bs rumor, from anet:

Anyone heard of an eight-for-eight rumor?

8 330s from US to DL in exchange for 8 767-300ERs?

As someone who has wanted to see the 763 at US, this would be awesome. However, the 330's are a great aircraft, so would this be because the Airbus' are too big/capable/expensive?

-Dave

Might not be a bad idea, depending on the age of the 330s, compared to the 763s. If they can get rid of older 763s before they start refurbishing the cabins and get some newer 330s, that might be a good deal, even tho they would probably have to refurbish the cabins on the 330s, anyway.

I'm not sure how this would help push the deal forward. The main sticking point after factoring in the FAA's compromise was that US wasn't getting as much from the deal as DL was. I don't see how US losing 8 higher-valued A330-300s to pick up 8 lower-valued 767-300s would aid the deal unless there was also a significant cash transaction associated with it.

The US A330-300s (MSN 315-388) are several years older than the DL A330-300s (MSN 524-865), but newer than all but a couple of the 767-300s.

I can't really see it happening when you consider the age of US's 767-200ER fleet and their outstanding orders for A330's and A350's, but...

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 14):
However, the 330's are a great aircraft, so would this be because the Airbus' are too big/capable/expensive?

Given US's smaller-market hubs, I'd guess that filling the A330-300's is a challenge for six months of the year. However, trading away eight of them would make for an A330 fleet that would be uneconomical due to its small size.

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 13):

not sure what/why they would do that. Its not like US couldn't find 763s if they wanted them.
Plus 8 for 8 would leave US with one 333......what would be the point of that?

Quoting timf (Reply 17):

The US A330-300s (MSN 315-388) are several years older than the DL A330-300s (MSN 524-865), but newer than all but a couple of the 767-300s.

also IIRC US 333s have GEs and the US 332s have RRs. Not sure DL would want a sub fleet of 8 planes. (now I could see DL wanting more 332s, and I would love to see Trent powered 332s around here but i would say No way DL gets more 333s.)

 

[Art at ISP]

Since it makes NO sense whatsoever, I am sure it has been talked about

That said, if US is needing to get out of the 762's as soon as possible, perhaps they might swap some future 330 deliveries for a handful of 763's. DL has a subfleet of 763's which have different engines, if I remember correctly.

 

[psw737]

It does make sense if they plan on keeping the 767-200's for a while and if they were only trading future deliveries and not current aircraft. The company has stated several times that there are numerous cities from Phl and Clt that they want to launch service in Europe to in addition to South America. This would allows this for a minimal cost of Lga slots and 8 future 330 orders. How else could they possibly get additional widebodies cheap?

 

[700UW]

Because US has A330-300, 200s and A350s on order. US doesnt want another fleet type, especially used 767-300s, they are moving to an all airbus widebody fleet.

 

[autofixer]

The 767-200s are supposed to be around until 2014; subject to change.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

That rumor doesn't pass the common-sense test...

It was from a.net. Nuff said.