Southwest Purchase of Airtran and US/DL Slot Swap

[Travelpro72]

A perpetually delayed airbus order coupled with the smallest widebody fleet and weakest HUBS. It sure as hell scared everyone else away. Oh wait.....we bring that pesky Pilot battle. Yipppeeeeeee! ! ! Who wouldn't want us?

 

[flybynite]

Just for the record...I called the Charlotte move first! Follow my posts and see. I knew WN was heading for Charlotte

It doesn't matter if they have only 2 gates, 1 gate, or 100 gates, the point is that they've entered that market. They are in the HEART! B) My guess is that they'll cut into US's major markets out of Charlotte. I'm also guessing that their flights will be full.

As far as the slot swap that is where LUV made an error. Instead of making a fuss, it should have let the US/DL pick-and-choose-who-we-want deal go through. Why? Because imagine realizing that the slots given by an agreement to Air-Trash are now given to LUV!!!

So any new merger RUMORS coming from US?

I'm not so sure about that. I've been saying they have been eyeballing CLT for years. But be that it may.....

Anyway, they just took a low-cost carrier out of CLT so the fares will more than likely stay the same or maybe go up.

Fine by me.

 

[IberiaMAL]

Just for the record...I called the Charlotte move first! Follow my posts and see. I knew WN was heading for Charlotte

It doesn't matter if they have only 2 gates, 1 gate, or 100 gates, the point is that they've entered that market. They are in the HEART! B) My guess is that they'll cut into US's major markets out of Charlotte. I'm also guessing that their flights will be full.

As far as the slot swap that is where LUV made an error. Instead of making a fuss, it should have let the US/DL pick-and-choose-who-we-want deal go through. Why? Because imagine realizing that the slots given by an agreement to Air-Trash are now given to LUV!!!

So any new merger RUMORS coming from US?

:huh: WN did not buy Airtran to enter Charlotte...



How many daily flights does WN have at Pittsburgh and how many destinations?


70% of Airtrans traffic in Atlanta is connecting passengers. WN isn't a Hub/Spoke airline and relies more on O&D. WN will quit routes such as Tunica and Atlantic city and start up new routes from Atlanta to WN Focus Cities and add more frequency on routes.


WN will probably be a lot more aggressive in Memphis than in Charlotte for the fact that the Delta hub there is weak and vulnerable.


US Airways is larger than WN in pittsburgh still. WN flies from Pittsburgh to Baltimore, Chicago, Las Vegas, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, and Tampa...


Atlanta, Baltimore, Orlando, and Chicago will be WN's routes from CLT, I believe.



WN will probably cut connecting traffic by 40% in Atlanta and focus on Atlanta O&D and drop cities such as AVL where US can gouge prices...


CLT is nothing special for WN. It was just a hole in the WN route map. WN probably views US Airways as completely irrelevant at this point in time.



And WN isn't all that cheap. At least not as cheap as Airtran.

 

[Travelpro72]

As for WN being cheap? Well just about anyone could afford a last minute walk up fare. I don't think the same could be said for US and the other legacy carriers where a LCC carrier isn't on that route. WN will bring out A LOT of people to fly on the few routes it may serve out of Charladelphia. That you can count on.

 

[Real tired]

:huh: WN did not buy Airtran to enter Charlotte...



How many daily flights does WN have at Pittsburgh and how many destinations?.................




...............US Airways is larger than WN in pittsburgh still. WN flies from Pittsburgh to Baltimore, Chicago, Las Vegas, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, and Tampa...

Maybe not for long. More pain coming to PIT.
More pain

 

[VAflyGal]

Seems to me everytime SWA comes into a market, US puts its head between its legs and cowers out like an injured dog. They grow and expand. We shrink and retreat, and or throw it to the regionals.
Remember our base at BWI?
Remember our base at PIT?

Delta had announced it was going to hire pilots and flight attendants.
Will this have any effect on their hiring decisions?
Will this kill our CLT market?

LUV LUV LUV LUV LUV LUV LUV LUV

 

[john john]

Seems to me everytime SWA comes into a market, US puts its head between its legs and cowers out like an injured dog. They grow and expand. We shrink and retreat, and or throw it to the regionals.

Senior management has admitted as much
Frequent scheduling with contract carriers has long been there M.O.

 

[Crzipilot]

As for WN being cheap? Well just about anyone could afford a last minute walk up fare. I don't think the same could be said for US and the other legacy carriers where a LCC carrier isn't on that route. WN will bring out A LOT of people to fly on the few routes it may serve out of Charladelphia. That you can count on.

I think some things have changed, or so it seems. Was sitting at ticket counter one day. and Girl walks up and says I need a ticket. to IAH (from Florida city) Agent clicks it in......180.00 all in. Walk up 45 minutes before departure. I look at agent, agent looks at me, and we both were like.....really!??! When did this happen. It's what came up and reservation system sold the ticket.

Was looking for a last minute ticket on anyone. SWA was around 280.00. US came in at 160.00 big difference there. Guess that's why the loads have still been up. Also guess why so many seats seem to vanish at the 2-1 day windows these days.....

 

[AstroLounge]

I don't think a merger with AA is what will happen. My bet is on a merger with jetblue, US leaves star alliance to join one world alliance and strengthens this new codeshare that jetblue has recently started with AA.

I SECOND The Motion! I have been predicting a US/JB tie-up for some time. The only twist in your thinking is.........I have a feeling the New Combination would STAY in STAR Alliance. Let's Not forget that the STAR Alliance Puppet Master is Lufthansa, and they will NOT concede anything to ANY other Alliance. New York City is where STAR wants to DOMINATE.........a US/JB combination would take care of the JFK Gateway and feed ALL the Alliance Members. (Sort of like EVERY Member gets a slice of The Pie). US is clearly embedded in STAR at this time and only some MAJOR Development will change that. JetBlue (which is partly owned by LH) could essentially jump into the arms of American but I can't see that happening without LH actually ALLOWING it. A US/JB combination would be a Strong competitor on the EAST Coast and throughout the Caribbean. This combination would be attractive to either STAR or ONEWORLD and the New entity could clearly compete against an enlarged Southwest. US could certainly keep their International presence, but it would compliment what is offered by what UA-CO offers at EWR (if they choose to remain in STAR) or feed what AA offers at JFK. Regardless, things will undoubtedly change. There appears to be some MAJOR JOCKEYING for Dominance on the Eastern Seaboard amongst ALL the players. American is in a precarious situation.........they will have to make a move one way or another or the GAP with the competition will widen. It's the smaller airlines that are the targets.

 

[IberiaMAL]

Seems to me everytime SWA comes into a market, US puts its head between its legs and cowers out like an injured dog. They grow and expand. We shrink and retreat, and or throw it to the regionals.
Remember our base at BWI?
Remember our base at PIT?

Delta had announced it was going to hire pilots and flight attendants.
Will this have any effect on their hiring decisions?
Will this kill our CLT market?

LUV LUV LUV LUV LUV LUV LUV LUV

This is a worn out debate that always recurs.


US Airways had hubs from Miami to Boston and all in between. Ft. Lauderdale, Charlotte, Washington DC, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, New York, Dayton, and Boston and then they had point to point flights from Albany, Rochester, Syracuse and some Floridian cities.

Baltimore was already being reduced before Southwest had really became anything in Baltimore. United and US Airways had planned a merger in the early 2000's while WN began expanding BWI.


Back then, US Airways was trying to get away from hubs and make focus cities all over the east coast like WN. It didn't work for US. So, they try to hit the restart button. BWI, DAY, & FLL got the boot. Then came B6 and more WN competition, then LGA and BOS take a hit. US was still in financial trouble so they booted PIT.

Now everyone excluding DCA, CLT, and PHL on the east will get the boot absent the shuttle and I guess now LGA.


PIT had high landing fees. US Airways was in trouble. They had a 300/400 Flight operation in PHL and a 400 flight operation in PIT. PIT competed with other connecting hubs out there including US's hubs. It made no sense to have PHL/PIT. Consolidation. PIT was consolidated into PHL and KCLT.


WN came into the picture at BWI (A place US didn't even want to be in anymore because they wanted to consolidate their operations and probably wanted to get out of BWI because if they ever wanted a merger, BWI/DCA might have anti-trust issues, etc.) and they seen US wanted to leave BWI and thus they came.


WN came into the picture when US had completely lost interest in PIT. And US Airways is still the largest carrier out of it's spoke, PIT...



WN is not going to kill US in CLT by flying 4 routes at a not so low-fare price. Even absent WN, it's not like WN would be stealing any walk-up fare customers from US... I was watching on Fox Charlotte how most people drive to Atlanta because ATL has the lowest fares in the south, or most CLT people connected in ATL on Airtran, or they drove to RDU for WN. WN is going to stop a lot of Airtran connection traffic. Airtran's ATL operations is 70% connecting traffic.

When WN comes to CLT, WN will be focused on mostly O&D. It doesn't harm CLT based people who doesn't travel on the dime of Bank of America and other companies because we all flew Airtran and connected in Baltimore and Atlanta in the first place. Just means that some of us wont be driving to ATL and RDU.


Delta has a 1,000 peak daily flights in ATL and US will have 610+ in '11. If US were to pack up and leave Charlotte, I wouldn't be surprised to see Charlotte renamed "Charlotte Hartsfield International Airport" and have Delta absorbing a couple hundred flights or so. the most population region in the US (the Southeast) and the plentiful population in the North/North east would have just Delta/ATL as a connection point. US is fine at CLT.


US Airways is perfectly fine at Charlotte. OUTSIDE Charlotte is where US will be hurting. Everywhere where US doesn't have a presence is what is going to be US's Achilles heel. US's growth will become stagnant one day in PHL/CLT/DCA and well... Only way to expand is by merger (like Airtran).

 

[signals]

:huh: WN did not buy Airtran to enter Charlotte...



How many daily flights does WN have at Pittsburgh and how many destinations?


70% of Airtrans traffic in Atlanta is connecting passengers. WN isn't a Hub/Spoke airline and relies more on O&D. WN will quit routes such as Tunica and Atlantic city and start up new routes from Atlanta to WN Focus Cities and add more frequency on routes.


WN will probably be a lot more aggressive in Memphis than in Charlotte for the fact that the Delta hub there is weak and vulnerable.


US Airways is larger than WN in pittsburgh still. WN flies from Pittsburgh to Baltimore, Chicago, Las Vegas, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, and Tampa...


Atlanta, Baltimore, Orlando, and Chicago will be WN's routes from CLT, I believe.



WN will probably cut connecting traffic by 40% in Atlanta and focus on Atlanta O&D and drop cities such as AVL where US can gouge prices...


CLT is nothing special for WN. It was just a hole in the WN route map. WN probably views US Airways as completely irrelevant at this point in time.



And WN isn't all that cheap. At least not as cheap as Airtran.

Sorry, but I don't buy that. WN is out for the proverbial "blood" and it has proven aggressive to get it. It's main objective seems to be competing with all airlines and that is what it does best.

Southwest wouldn't bother with Charlotte at all if it wasn't going to profit in some way. And believe me, US Airways is still a target of interest for WN, but continue to close your eyes to that fact.

The Slot Swap must have really ticked them off and here they get two birds with one WN!

 

[signals]

I'm not so sure about that. I've been saying they have been eyeballing CLT for years. But be that it may.....

Anyway, they just took a low-cost carrier out of CLT so the fares will more than likely stay the same or maybe go up.

Fine by me.

My sincere apologies, FBN.

 

[flybynite]

My sincere apologies, FBN.

 

[signals]

I predict that in the future Southwest will purchase...drum roll...jetBlue!

Don't know where that came from, but lets see what happens! B)

I was talking to an agent a couple of months ago and she was telling me about what a stronghold US once had in Vegas. Then suddenly, she said, for no apparent reason, US pulled out of that market. I eventually heard that WN went in and filled the void left by US.

Is this true?

 

[IberiaMAL]

I predict that in the future Southwest will purchase...drum roll...jetBlue!

Don't know where that came from, but lets see what happens! B)

I was talking to an agent a couple of months ago and she was telling me about what a stronghold US once had in Vegas. Then suddenly, she said, for no apparent reason, US pulled out of that market. I eventually heard that WN went in and filled the void left by US.

Is this true?

Yes. And if Phoenix weren't the only hub/focus city outside of the eastern seaboard, it would have been long gone with Las Vegas. Because of Southwest. But that's not the case with BWI nor PIT nor Dayton. B6 was responsible for US's dwindling presence in Boston.