US Airways Has AA Labor Backing for AMR Takeover: Sources

[WorldTraveler]

It’s not only about preserving jobs. It’s about preserving the airline.

Perhaps it’s time to talk turkey with people interested in creating something new.

Frankly, I never took the merger seriously until APFA said that they were behind it. Are they really? Are they only using it as a bargaining chip? I don’t know. AA had their chance and they ran the airline into the ground. Maybe it’s time to talk turkey with US. It’s time to urinate or refrain from using the lav.

As if the APFA is going to make a difference whether the airline is viable or not?
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The simple fact is that AA labor is trying to avoid doing the tough work of restructuring the airline - that should have been done years ago to be sure, but no one is going to undo the years of losses and the weakened position AA is in any easier than what AA mgmt has proposed doing w/o reducing the likelihood that the company will be viable long-term.
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Parker is willing to make less cuts in order to win labor - but he is risking the likelihood that the merged airline won't be able to effectively compete against DL, UA, and WN long term anyway.
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The creditors know what it takes for AA - as a standalone or in a merger with US to compete - and they are not going to accept a half-baked solution when there are alternatives that will provide a higher return to the creditors while also ensuring that the airline actually lasts more than a couple years before it ends up in BK again, including AA's own standalone plan.

 

[Hopeful]

hopeful i forone am not a fan of aa/us merger but the way i see it its more thanlikely gonna happen. as for that very last line you said, what ceo doesnt lie to their employees parker is out for his big money and the he!! with everyone and everything else. i would not put anything past parker to not following thru on his promises. but given AA's strong representation its possible that he will have to go thru with his promise

If a merger were to happen, what union are you voting in?

I have news for you, it will be at least September before anything like a merger to happen. But way before then, the judge will have abrogated our agreements. And when 4300 M&R jobs are sadly lost, the majority of mechanics will NOT be in OH and we will immediately begin the process of dropping the TWU.

 

[BigMac]

What’s your point? It’s the way of the world? :huh:

Huh???? Bird you ain't making sense.

 

[robbedagain]

i would vote for ibt if i cld but have to look at the lesser of the 2 evils

 

[bluebird]

“Parker is willing to make less cuts in order to win labor - but he is risking the likelihood that the merged airline won't be able to effectively compete against DL, UA, and WN long term anyway.”

Then more cuts may come in future.

“The creditors know what it takes for AA - as a standalone or in a merger with US to compete - and they are not going to accept a half-baked solution…”

The dollar is so devalued, they could maintain status quo and that is a pay cut over time.

“…[W]hen there are alternatives that will provide a higher return to the creditors while also ensuring that the airline actually lasts more than a couple years before it ends up in BK again, including AA's own standalone plan.”

Would AA upper management get the boot? Heads should be rolling.

 

[bluebird]

Huh???? Bird you ain't making sense.

What are we supposed to learn from these Guidos that you linked to? :unsure:

 

[wings396]

The entire term sheets that US has proposed are based on an unsustainable business model... neither AA or US have what it takes to compete against DL, UA, or WN yet there are employees at both companies who think they will be better off by accepting promises that can easily be wiped out in BK - which is exactly where a combined AA/US would end up based on these term sheets.

There will always be people who will avoid doing what is necessary to face reality only to pay a higher price down the road.
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AA employees are where they are right now because the company didn't get costs down to levels comparable with other BK carriers - including UA and US at the time - and then didn't run w/ the cuts they did have.
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AA employees who accept US' terms are setting themselves up for round three which will be far more costly....
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but since the non-labor creditors are also part of the decision making process and they can see through what US is proposing, it is very likely they will vote no because another BK will wipe out their recovery.
Thus, the chances that non-labor creditors and mgmt will agree to these terms are very unlikely.

I can't understand why somebody as damn smart as you would be sitting on the sidelines behind a keyboard. Now a plan that you have no specific details about isn't sustainable. I knew that nothing or nobody can or ever will be able to match Delta in any way shape or form. You really are a desperate piece of work. I assume that you were in the room for Parkers business plan that won't work along with the AA Unions. At one time I actually thought that you had some decent stuff to say, but you are grasping at straws now WT. Send a resume into Doug, and hopefully he will get in touch with you soon. If he doesn't get back to you, give UA or DL another shot, as I'm sure they could put your talent to good use. If you only knew 1/2 as much as you thought you did, it would be an asset. Your Anti US/AA BS is becoming more visible with each post. Your credability is sinking faster than the Titanic did...Give it a rest already...

 

[EastCheats]

So a Union member training people who just got hired on by a Non Union contract vendor in order to replace Union jobs is OK in your book? WOW......Now who's the PUKE???
Don't some people have a 4 letter word that describes this type of action?
Live it up Pal, I can see that you have been on these boards for a long time, One full month already...Did it take you the last 7 years to come up with some of your material?

You keep coming back and will kick you in the teeth every time. Some union authority aren't you? I'd call you a hack, count the letters, there are 4. People like you either feed off the government or wait for a bailout. It looks like you got what you wanted didn't you. Be careful for what you wish for. Better start polishing up that resume. Mergers mean cuts.

So tell me hack, how to you feel about a union who ingores binding arbitration, sues it's members, sits back while the jobs of actively flying pilots get replaced by furloughed pilots?
They face a lawsuit today for trying to ingore the results of an election and cheat the results.
It's a result of the East's mentality of cheating and deception. AA better think twice when they make a deal involving with hacks.

Best thing about this merger.....

I'll be helping USAPA pack their bags and show those scumbags the door.

 

[BigMac]

What are we supposed to learn from these Guidos that you linked to? :unsure:

For one..it is the current IAM contract correct? Since this topic is about USAir it would seem to be of some interest what AA'rs have to look forward to if acquired. Ya think?

 

[ContUNITEus]

They will reneg on the promises one way or the other. Mark my words. Just like a sleazy politician who lies to get elected, Parker is telling you folks exactly what you want to hear. Sure, you'll get some money in the short term, but what Horton is offering will look like a gold mine compared to what Parker will offer in your next, soon-to-come bankruptcy.

I am glad that someone agrees with me here. US Airways executives are all about bullshitting. Look, it's been over 10 years for America West flight attendants to get a pay-raise and to get close to a contract, but as evidenced again with this last TA, the company US Airways (aka AWA) just doesn't give a rats ass about the workforce. After 10 years without a contract for west folks, this is the best that they could come up with? And then they are courting the AA employee groups?

GMAFB

US Airways (America West) ain't the one to put your hopes into.

 

[Jacobin777]

Jacobin777, welcome back! Haven't seen your posts in a while. Hope all is well.

Josh

Thanks Josh. I'll try to be more active here (though many wish I wasn't..hahaha).

Those retirement benefits will go bye-bye in the next bankruptcy. That's how it's done. Stick around and you'll see.

The no furlough clause? Worthless, as we at US found out.

+1.

It’s not only about preserving jobs. It’s about preserving the airline.

Perhaps it’s time to talk turkey with people interested in creating something new.

Frankly, I never took the merger seriously until APFA said that they were behind it. Are they really? Are they only using it as a bargaining chip? I don’t know. AA had their chance and they ran the airline into the ground. Maybe it’s time to talk turkey with US. It’s time to urinate or refrain from using the lav.

What chance? AA avoided BK and become uncompetitive. AA is trying to fix this problem now.

Had Jet-A not go up by 300% or so, AA would still be profitable today. Jet-A is 3x more expensive than it was in 2003. No savings/"give backs" is going to solve it. US proposal IMHO falls short in addressing revenue and cost structure concerns-amongst many other things.

 

[bluebird]

For one..it is the current IAM contract correct? Since this topic is about USAir it would seem to be of some interest what AA'rs have to look forward to if acquired. Ya think?

Things would probably have to change for both carriers. Who would invest in the deal if it is set up to fail?

For AA, hopefully better management and survival. For US, expanded markets, better name recognition, etc.

 

[wings396]

You keep coming back and will kick you in the teeth every time. Some union authority aren't you? I'd call you a hack, count the letters, there are 4. People like you either feed off the government or wait for a bailout. It looks like you got what you wanted didn't you. Be careful for what you wish for. Better start polishing up that resume. Mergers mean cuts.

So tell me hack, how to you feel about a union who ingores binding arbitration, sues it's members, sits back while the jobs of actively flying pilots get replaced by furloughed pilots?
They face a lawsuit today for trying to ingore the results of an election and cheat the results.
It's a result of the East's mentality of cheating and deception. AA better think twice when they make a deal involving with hacks.

Best thing about this merger.....

I'll be helping USAPA pack their bags and show those scumbags the door.

Oh boo hoo, the east cheats.....how original.
7 years into the merger and now you want to speak up, but I guess it took you that long to figure out what to say. As far as bailouts, I have no idea what the hell you are refering to there in relating to me. I have no job security concerns, but apparently you do....
Enjoy the ride in that right seat, I think that you may be there for a while...
Don't feel cheated.....

 

[Duke787]

Not sure how accurate these numbers are (I'm sure FWAAA can verify), but this was posted elsewhere by an AA mechanic.

"As a mechanic the us air contract looks better than what I have now not to mention what AA is proposing for the future. If US air were to take over today I would imediatly gain 5 paid holidays, 1 week of vacation, 6 paid sick days, retiree medical coverage at 55 instead of 62 or even none, an active pension, double time pay rates ,15 weeks severence in the event of a layoff with recall rights, double pay for holidays, the list goes on and on . All of these gains for about a 3% cut in pay which won't even be an issue come July when the us air mechanics get thiier next raise. Before anyone goes off about outsourcing or layoffs just remember AA'S current proposal is worse than the 50% in US Air's current contract . After alot of reserch and comparison I think AA needs to re-think their position and come along way twards labor's position to get my vote ."

Are you trying to say that an airline can pay it's employee's and make a profit by actually manageing the operation, rather then when times get tough "take from the empoyee" I'm beginning to think that a business school teachs something more then blame and take from the employees.

That is a novice approach to the situation, i'm use to the executives running to the press saying the unins are the problem, but never mentioning we GAVE them everything thet wanted in 2003!!!!!

Funny it took 2 weeks to negotiate that 2003 contract, but it's 2012 and 5 years of negotiating got us nothing.

 

[damajagua]

There is no secret that I have been against US taking over AA for a while.
But I will like to go on record and say I have switch my position.
I am willing to keep an open mind to the whole situation.
The way AA has handle this whole debacle is outrageous.
I would be an idiot not to realize that what US is offering me
or APFA in my case; is far better than what AA is offering.
The fact that US is accepting the early out proposal
should encourage a lot of senior AA fl/a to retire. This will
mitigate any furloughs. As far as flight attendants are concern
US is offering a better deal.
Good luck to all.