US Airways Commits Suicide !!!

[balt4house]

Couldn't agree more. It will amaze me if anyone follows at this level.

Reduce classes for upgrade, sure? Delta did this and I think it works for both sides (they get more revenue, I compete against a smaller pool for upgrades).

My only question is why so draconian? Haven't most airlines established the well-honed policy of *slowly* taking away perks? They could have done this over 6 months instead of 6 minutes and the furor would have been significantly muted.

-g

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On 8/27/2002 8:30:19 PM

If you want to keep $200 fares out of F, then you can restrict the upgrade system like Delta has done. Or you can upgrade folks closer to departure. But I don't buy for a second the claim that passengers upgrading cheap fares in advance is severely hurting the airline. Alaska will upgrade its top level elites (who only have to fly 35000 miles a year, mind you) at the time of BOOKING on any fare. And they even tell you in advance (before purchase) whether or not the flight has upgrade availability.

This is the stupidest move I have seen in a while. There a few benefits (except to non-revs) and the loss of revenue will be significant.
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[TomBascom]

All of a sudden, pluses like high on time performance,low baggage losses, low DOT complaints, good safety record, friendly agents,

Explain how I reflect those couple of percentage points of advantage over (some of) your competition versus the 2x, 3x, 5x or even 10x increase in travel costs that I'm apparently expected to pass along to my clients. I can and do justify a certain amount of increased cost due to those factors. But I can't justify the chasm between K & Y on that.

This isn't about upgrades or "bashing" -- it's about losing your customers. If you don't have any differentiation from your competition (other than being higher priced) then you're history. You're not a charity -- there's no address for us to send donations to. The "no preferred miles" thing is dumb but "use it or lose it, no standby, no exceptions" is insane -- it gives you all of the bad attributes of low cost carriers without the low cost. Where's the sense in that?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

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-- it gives you all of the bad attributes of low cost carriers without the low cost. Where's the sense in that?
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Maybe that's the point. The low fare level of service is apparently what America wants and is willing to support. Maybe this is step 1 in restructuring that end of the business as well as all the others. SWA just gives folks a free ticket for every so many they buy, and even then it's limited as to the fare price you can get. It's obvious that the old business model which catered to the business traveller is broken; this may be a shift away from that to a more predictable focus on the leisure market.[:0]

 

[ChairPrefRes]

This could be tied to a major fundamental change in the pricing structure-and your getting the bad news first...Or the typical I'll try it till the marketing reps have their heads decapitated...pretty interesting though...Nobody has been able to make a new pricing plan stick so far...I wouldnt jump ship untill you see a raft guys...Thanks for the Bus we'll get it sorted out...

 

[TomBascom]

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On 8/28/2002 8:55:40 AM

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-- it gives you all of the bad attributes of low cost carriers without the low cost. Where's the sense in that?
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Maybe that's the point. The low fare level of service is apparently what America wants and is willing to support. Maybe this is step 1 in restructuring that end of the business as well as all the others. SWA just gives folks a free ticket for every so many they buy, and even then it's limited as to the fare price you can get. It's obvious that the old business model which catered to the business traveller is broken; this may be a shift away from that to a more predictable focus on the leisure market.[:0]
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I don't see what the basis for believing that anyone wants a low level of service is.

Everyone obviously likes low fares. Who can argue with paying less? But where does that become equated with liking low service?

Yes, the old business model is broken. But is it broken because it supposedly "catered" to the business traveler? I don't think so. The supposed catering doesn't add up to the problems that the airlines are facing. What is broken is the idea that there is any significant body of passengers willing to pay $2,000 to get from Rochester to Norfolk. That's not catering to business -- it's gouging.
Nor is it catering to business to bring the fare down to $250 -- that's called "being competitive".

 

[pk45cu]

Agree on all points with you, ex-AA, except the part where you say that the public was not ready to accept the simplified fare structure in the early 90s. Value-pricing was a hit with the pax. The problem was that NW started their companion flys free promotion in response to AA, Crandall lost his cool, and soon all the airlines started a fare war race to the bottom.

You are right in that the airlines need to be out in the trenches with the business pax, the people with whom the corp TAs talk every day.

 

[MCORORES]

Well I wanted to wait until all the venting was done. What we are dealing with here is not a slap in the face to most of our preferred flyers at all. If you all remember a few months ago when one GP pax posted how he beats the system with his back to back tickets and throw away type tickets. He was not the only one doing this. Amazing how when you pull up someones DM number looking for the etkt you see how many unused return tickets actually exist. You all ways have someone trying to beat the system and when it is addressed everyone gets the same "punishment". Not saying it is right just the way it is. Would not be surprised to see other carriers follow suit. When you are dealing with human emotion, trying to beat the system seems to be a game. Remember years ago when we had the first version of medical emergency fares? Came and went about a year later due to passengers going to see their sick grandma in Florida and checking in with golf clubs. Hmmmm guess they figuried 18holes would make grandma feel better. Do you also remember 10 years ago when we waived the advanced purchuse restrictions and min/max stay restrictions for people who where impacted by Hurricane Andrew??? All the pax had to do was to mention it and we could not question it. Booked a lot of 1 day travel from south Florida to New York for people taken advantage of a situation that they had no intentions of getting away from the disaster situation, just fully exploting U for their benefit. The bottom line in this long reply to why it has happened is nothing but my opinion. It is not U's fault at all. It is those Preffered members who have used and abused the system to their advantage and now all who played by the rules are suffering because of these types of people. It is ashame that because of their abuse the best perk for our business traveler has been ruined. The amazing thing is that those who played by the rules are the most vocal and it is very understandable. Those who did not play by the rules and abused the system are hiding in the shadows snickering. What ashame IMO U has to take such drastic measures.

 

[cltvff]

I have to agree with ITRADE. The airlines set the fares and rules. So, if I can buy a one way ticket to DFW for Monday and then buy several RTs from DFW, all of which include a Sat. night stay, then don't use the backend of the last ticket, how am I beating the system? IMO, I'm only playing by the rules

 

[ITRADE]

[edited- can we watch the profanity even with the ***'s? thanks] MCORES.

The airline is the one who sets the fares. We simply purchase them.

This garbage about too bad if your wife is in the hospital is even more salt in the wound.

I'm sorry, but Southwest and JetBlue would NEVER pull that garbage.

 

[a320av8r]

Hopefully this is like a fare increase, if nobody else goes along we will revert to plan A.

 

[TomBascom]

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On 8/28/2002 1:33:24 PM

I have to agree with ITRADE. The airlines set the fares and rules. So, if I can buy a one way ticket to DFW for Monday and then buy several RTs from DFW, all of which include a Sat. night stay, then don't use the backend of the last ticket, how am I beating the system? IMO, I'm only playing by the rules
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Those rules have been a train wreck waiting to happen from the start. It was only a matter of time until such an artificial price support fell apart. Trying to hold it together just a little longer isn't going to save the airline -- it's going to chase away the best customers.

 

[TomBascom]

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On 8/28/2002 1:56:38 PM

Well' Im glad we have FF's stepping forward and admiting their doing back to backs...

Nobody has admitted any such thing. Feel free to check my records if you think I am.

In my case I said the rules have been a train wreck waiting to happen -- even though, as someone else said, we've been following them.

That little snip of Southwest's policy pretty much says everything about the difference in culture between the companies -- US' rules make the customer the enemy. We're always looking for ways to beat the system and we need to be stopped (even those of us who are doing no such thing. SW says that the customer is, essentially, a partner.

 

[KCFlyer]

Well I wanted to wait until all the venting was done. What we are dealing with here is not a slap in the face to most of our preferred flyers at all. If you all remember a few months ago when one GP pax posted how he beats the system with his back to back tickets and throw away type tickets. He was not the only one doing this. Amazing how when you pull up someones DM number looking for the etkt you see how many unused return tickets actually exist.

PErhaps the solution is to follow Southwests lead - offer a decent walk up fare and don't rape the last minute traveller. From Southwests website and contract of carriage:

With respect to all of its fares, Southwest Airlines does not prohibit or penalize what is commonly known as "hidden city" ticketing, nor does it prohibit or penalize what is commonly known as "back to back" ticketing. "Hidden city" and "back to back" reservations and tickets are authorized for travel on Southwest Airlines.

Furthermore, if you choose not to use a restricted ticket that you have already purchased, the amount you paid for your ticket may, within one year from date of purchase, be applied toward the purchase of another ticket on Southwest Airlines. Your new ticket may, without penalty or fee, be subject to different terms, conditions, and restrictions. We will charge the appropriate fare for the new ticket, which may mean more money, but Southwest does not charge a "fee" for the "exchange" of tickets. No cash refunds or credit card adjustments are made on any amounts paid for nonrefundable tickets.

I'd be willing to bet that even though it's allowed, it doesn't happen very much. Why? Because the passenger is getting value for their dollar.

You all ways have someone trying to beat the system and when it is addressed everyone gets the same "punishment". Not saying it is right just the way it is. Would not be surprised to see other carriers follow suit. When you are dealing with human emotion, trying to beat the system seems to be a game.... It is those Preffered members who have used and abused the system to their advantage and now all who played by the rules are suffering because of these types of people. It is ashame that because of their abuse the best perk for our business traveler has been ruined. The amazing thing is that those who played by the rules are the most vocal and it is very understandable. Those who did not play by the rules and abused the system are hiding in the shadows snickering. What ashame IMO U has to take such drastic measures.

Wouldn't a better alternative been to enforce the DM rules, you know the one that says

US Airways also reserves the right to disqualify any person from participation in the Dividend Miles program if, in the sole judgment of US Airways, that person has violated any of the rules described in this guide or in any other US Airways materials or services offered in support of the Dividend Miles program.

It seems to me that punishing everybody for the sins of a few is just bad business.

 

[cltvff]

Another interesting point..... our corporate contract with US specifically ALLOWS us to do back to backs... or at least it did until yesterday []

 

[ChairPrefRes]

Well' Im glad we have FF's stepping forward and admiting their doing back to backs which is against airline policy by the way...Our fraud (now called something else ) just sticks their head in the sand when we report this activity therefore its now considered common and runs rampant...They book back to back online all the time...So it looks like the new rules will help snuff out the back to backers and send them on theyre merry way...Hurray...Till they figure a new way to beat the system...[:devil:]