Us Airways And United Airlines Merger Attempt
- Thread starter deltawatch
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Tim Nelson
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Whether or not a deal happens is difficult to determine. But it seems to me that the 'cultures' of USAIRWAYS and United offer less than equal chances of survival.
By cultures, I mean, the horizontal relationships of the people who work for the companies. This includes the management/employee relationships, together with employees/employees for each airline. Such things as moral or other 'human factors' which can not be measured on paper come into play.
IMO, both airlines are on 'spoiled ground' as is, and merging will not produce a 'fertile field'.
At any rate, both airlines are headed for individual collision courses unless they can change the 'culture' and fertilize the ground. Can it be done? Sure, I think perhaps Bethune did it at CO. But that may be too much to bare for the high and mighty of these companies who will still have their eyes closed and their pride high. Until eyes are open, the computer 'graphs' and other objective information will continue to run this airline [into the ground] since the subjective was never imputed.
regards,
Tim Nelson
By cultures, I mean, the horizontal relationships of the people who work for the companies. This includes the management/employee relationships, together with employees/employees for each airline. Such things as moral or other 'human factors' which can not be measured on paper come into play.
IMO, both airlines are on 'spoiled ground' as is, and merging will not produce a 'fertile field'.
At any rate, both airlines are headed for individual collision courses unless they can change the 'culture' and fertilize the ground. Can it be done? Sure, I think perhaps Bethune did it at CO. But that may be too much to bare for the high and mighty of these companies who will still have their eyes closed and their pride high. Until eyes are open, the computer 'graphs' and other objective information will continue to run this airline [into the ground] since the subjective was never imputed.
regards,
Tim Nelson
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
I heard there are long-lingering airline investor negotiations in Montego Bay. The talks are apparently being fueled by an unlimited supply of Blue Mountain Coffee and ganja.
Airlines Demand Review Of Lima Airport's Concessionaire
Aviation Daily
03/07/2005, page 29
Luis Zalamea
The public controversy on service charges being levied at Lima Jorge Chavez Airport by concessionaires Lima Airport Partners (LAP) (DAILY, Feb. 23) grew nastier recently as user airlines demanded that the government review of the concession contract.
Claiming that Jorge Chavez has become the region's most expensive airport, Daniel Ratti, president of Peru's 21-member association of international airlines (AETAI), said, "This is a mean contract, filled with deficiencies, and we are demanding that it be completely reviewed. Since 2001, we have lost more money than we have made. Our airlines are paying LAP more than $1 million a month in excessive fees to use the airport for loading fuel, and now they pretend to charge us $3 million a year for the use of boarding ramps, among other items. While these ramps cost $103 an hour in Lima, equivalent charges are $60 in Buenos Aires, $30 in Santiago, Chile, and $35 in Miami." He estimated LAP is overcharging airlines by $17 million this year. LAP said in a press release that readjustment of fees for landings and takeoffs is necessary to continue "upgrading facilities." It added that from February 2001 to date, LAP has invested some $135 million to modernize Jorge Chavez.
Aviation Daily
03/07/2005, page 29
Luis Zalamea
The public controversy on service charges being levied at Lima Jorge Chavez Airport by concessionaires Lima Airport Partners (LAP) (DAILY, Feb. 23) grew nastier recently as user airlines demanded that the government review of the concession contract.
Claiming that Jorge Chavez has become the region's most expensive airport, Daniel Ratti, president of Peru's 21-member association of international airlines (AETAI), said, "This is a mean contract, filled with deficiencies, and we are demanding that it be completely reviewed. Since 2001, we have lost more money than we have made. Our airlines are paying LAP more than $1 million a month in excessive fees to use the airport for loading fuel, and now they pretend to charge us $3 million a year for the use of boarding ramps, among other items. While these ramps cost $103 an hour in Lima, equivalent charges are $60 in Buenos Aires, $30 in Santiago, Chile, and $35 in Miami." He estimated LAP is overcharging airlines by $17 million this year. LAP said in a press release that readjustment of fees for landings and takeoffs is necessary to continue "upgrading facilities." It added that from February 2001 to date, LAP has invested some $135 million to modernize Jorge Chavez.
Since when is the Airport Director in Erie, PA, an "insider"?
This all falls into the believe it when you see it category...
Even if UAL and US Airways management teams WANT to merge their companies (a big IF in my book), neither of them has any cash, the industry is still losing billions of dollars a year, and oil prices are near record levels again. In this environment, both carriers will be lucky to survive at all, let alone pull of a very complicated merger.
Good God people, its like we have all forgotten that we are talking about one airline which has been in Chapter 11 for almost 3 years, and the other which has filed twice in the same time frame.
This all falls into the believe it when you see it category...
Even if UAL and US Airways management teams WANT to merge their companies (a big IF in my book), neither of them has any cash, the industry is still losing billions of dollars a year, and oil prices are near record levels again. In this environment, both carriers will be lucky to survive at all, let alone pull of a very complicated merger.
Good God people, its like we have all forgotten that we are talking about one airline which has been in Chapter 11 for almost 3 years, and the other which has filed twice in the same time frame.
usairways_vote_NO
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deltawatch said:
The only thing keeping USAirways alive right now is those golden eggs that keep plopping down for the revolving door CEO's and other management.
RowUnderDCA
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deltawatch said:
My prediction:
United and USAirways and HP become United minus PHL or IAD, minus LAX and LAS
Delta, Northwest and Continental become SkyTeam, minus CLE, CVG or MEM and JFK.
American and Alaska become American, plus UAL's LAX and maybe IAD and maybe LAS.
deltawatch
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funguy2 said:
Were did you get that ?...... It said "Fredericks, fresh from a meeting of the Governor's Aviation Advisory Council in Harrisburg, said conversations with some industry insiders has left him much more optimistic that US Airways"...............
I guess my point is that I've never heard a credible rumor merger attributed to the Airport Director in Erie, PA. For all we know, this is just rehashing 3 year old information.
I have some sources which I personally deem credible, because in the past, they've reported the rumor, and it has occured at least some of the time. This is not one such source.
For all I know, USA320Pilot was the "insider" referred to.
I have some sources which I personally deem credible, because in the past, they've reported the rumor, and it has occured at least some of the time. This is not one such source.
For all I know, USA320Pilot was the "insider" referred to.
deltawatch said:
Interesting Theory, leaving essentianlly 3 (legacy) airlines wouldn't this be akin to the auto industry (Big 3). hmmmmmm
now for the real test. what if.............
1. LCCs buy Legacy carriers (and pull an AMR/TWA) buy them and send them off to the sunset, keeping just about 0 employees
2. LCCs decide if its good for them (legacies) must be good for us (LCCs) and they began to consolidate then say SWA instead of competing in 62 cities could be in over 100 overnight.
just wondering thats all
I'm sticking with my original theory, UAIR will be taken private, held for a few years (where you do not have to report fiscal results) then sold at a premium a few years from now for large gains.
usairways_vote_NO
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javaboy said:I'm sticking with my original theory, UAIR will be taken private, held for a few years (where you do not have to report fiscal results) then sold at a premium a few years from now for large gains.
[post="253432"][/post]
I think I just entered the twilight zone and the outer limits at same time.
USA320Pilot
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Funguy2:
Funguy2 said: “Even if UAL and US Airways management teams WANT to merge their companies (a big IF in my book), neither of them has any cash, the industry is still losing billions of dollars a year, and oil prices are near record levels again. In this environment, both carriers will be lucky to survive at all, let alone pull of a very complicated merger. Good God people, its like we have all forgotten that we are talking about one airline which has been in Chapter 11 for almost 3 years, and the other which has filed twice in the same time frame.â€
USA320Pilot comments: Let’s look at the facts:
-- US & US have tried to merge 2 times.
-- US chairman David Bronner has said in four public interviews that he is interested in buying UA assets if it makes sense for US.
-- US & UA have a domestic code share relationship, both companies are in the Star alliance, and both companies have an important business relationship with Air Wisconsin.
-- Dave Siegel told me about both the UCT and then the ICT and Ben Baldanza told a colleague of mine about US’ interest in being the surviving business entity and the United name surviving, a la Valujet and AirTran.
-- During the past three weeks three separate airline observers have indicated in news media reports the parties would make a good fit or “industry insiders†are talking about another corporate transaction with the buzz for people “to watch for US Airways and United Airlines to resurrect an attempt at a merger.â€
-- Glenn Tilton recently said the best option for UA is to merge.
-- Bruce Lakefield told me a couple of weeks ago that both companies are currently "in play".
In summary, the parties continue to discuss a corporate combination and there is money available for a deal. The only thing your right about is that “neither of them has any cash, the industry is still losing billions of dollars a year, and oil prices are near record levels again.â€
However, that is why there would be a deal so the companies can create synergies to lower unit costs by creating greater economies of scale. Furthermore, outside capital is available for a deal through private equity, a hedge fund, venture capitalist, or a fund like RSA or the Retirement Fund of New York. Finally, J.P. Morgan is working on the deal, if it occurs, and it's my uderstanding that the only way for UA can continue operations in some form is through a corporate transaction.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Funguy2 said: “Even if UAL and US Airways management teams WANT to merge their companies (a big IF in my book), neither of them has any cash, the industry is still losing billions of dollars a year, and oil prices are near record levels again. In this environment, both carriers will be lucky to survive at all, let alone pull of a very complicated merger. Good God people, its like we have all forgotten that we are talking about one airline which has been in Chapter 11 for almost 3 years, and the other which has filed twice in the same time frame.â€
USA320Pilot comments: Let’s look at the facts:
-- US & US have tried to merge 2 times.
-- US chairman David Bronner has said in four public interviews that he is interested in buying UA assets if it makes sense for US.
-- US & UA have a domestic code share relationship, both companies are in the Star alliance, and both companies have an important business relationship with Air Wisconsin.
-- Dave Siegel told me about both the UCT and then the ICT and Ben Baldanza told a colleague of mine about US’ interest in being the surviving business entity and the United name surviving, a la Valujet and AirTran.
-- During the past three weeks three separate airline observers have indicated in news media reports the parties would make a good fit or “industry insiders†are talking about another corporate transaction with the buzz for people “to watch for US Airways and United Airlines to resurrect an attempt at a merger.â€
-- Glenn Tilton recently said the best option for UA is to merge.
-- Bruce Lakefield told me a couple of weeks ago that both companies are currently "in play".
In summary, the parties continue to discuss a corporate combination and there is money available for a deal. The only thing your right about is that “neither of them has any cash, the industry is still losing billions of dollars a year, and oil prices are near record levels again.â€
However, that is why there would be a deal so the companies can create synergies to lower unit costs by creating greater economies of scale. Furthermore, outside capital is available for a deal through private equity, a hedge fund, venture capitalist, or a fund like RSA or the Retirement Fund of New York. Finally, J.P. Morgan is working on the deal, if it occurs, and it's my uderstanding that the only way for UA can continue operations in some form is through a corporate transaction.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
US Mechs, could you please, please uninstall the hotline phone in 320's cockpit?
This is getting really annoying. Any talk of merger right now is so utterly farfetched it isn't even funny. We don't even know that either one of the airlines is going to survive the bankruptcy process, although I hope both do. I hope management at both airlines will stop dreaming up mergers and actually start trying to run these companies in some other manner than into the ground.
This is getting really annoying. Any talk of merger right now is so utterly farfetched it isn't even funny. We don't even know that either one of the airlines is going to survive the bankruptcy process, although I hope both do. I hope management at both airlines will stop dreaming up mergers and actually start trying to run these companies in some other manner than into the ground.
