United, Us Airways, and Continental?

[Dont call me Shirley]

I also find it interesting that Doug was willing to step aside.......which would have been a good thing.

Wherever US winds up, one can only hope that the OTHER carrier's employee and customer culture will survive.......

My BEST to you all...

the source said, noting: "Doug was going to act in what he believed to be the best interest of his company and his employees."

I have never been Doug's biggest fan, but he deserves props for this.

I also fear that US is the ugly girl at the dance and will be a very little fish in a pond full of bigger fish.

AA as savior? AA is a fine company and a strong one. Station agents would get Sabre back! But AA's record of merging with carriers only to dismantle them (OC, QQ, TW) is quite troubling indeed. But it would make AA a player in the NE.

Stay tuned, folks.

 

[767jetz]

I guess that all of the UA pilots have set aside the issue of some of the CO pilots being on a "List" back in the 80's. I recall most of our guys checking it out prior to giving the jumpseat to any of them. Not saying all of the CO pilots were part of this, but those that crossed the line along with those from PE, TI, and NY Air were.

There are not many left on that "list" at CO. UA has a list of their own and it is what it is. No one is setting aside anything. Those pilots are treated by others based on their past actions. You sleep in the bed you make. They are a VERY small percentage and it's certainly not something that would get in the way of this merger.

 

[wings396]

There are not many left on that "list" at CO. UA has a list of their own and it is what it is. No one is setting aside anything. Those pilots are treated by others based on their past actions. You sleep in the bed you make. They are a VERY small percentage and it's certainly not something that would get in the way of this merger.

True, that was over 20 years ago....I figured that there may still be a few around. My how the years go by, it didn't seem that long ago.

 

[767jetz]

I suppose that Tinton had no clue about this little issue in the pilot contract prior to talking with US for months?

Have you been reading the news? He did know about this, and in the end decided that UA was uncomfortable with the change of control clause that required US to be the acquiring airline. There was a chance of getting relief from USAPA but that effort was fruitless.

It has been saying for years that UA would only be in the driver's seat if it were to pursue a merger.

You can read many posts about what the UA employees think of him, so don't look for that to change with a CO merger.

No one at UA likes Tilton. That is a fact. But again, if you read the news coming out you will see that he will not be the CEO in a UA/CO combination.

If UA and CO do merge, it will be CO saving UA, and I can't see the CO board placing this Knucklehead at the helm. Look for Tinton to take the money and run soon after the ink dries.

I don't understand the need to assign blame and figure out who "saved" who. In case you didn't notice neither UA nor CO are considering bankruptcy this time around. The UA/CO merger is not about saving one airline from oblivion (as many others have been) but about creating a powerful combination to create more long term stability in a changing industry. Notice the news of the deal being structured as a stock for stock transaction with no premium. And Tilton remains as Chairman but not CEO.

It is being structured much the same way the DL/NW merger was, with neither airline "saving" the other. NW, DL, CO, and UA could all continue to muddle along independently and survive for many years while not necessarily thriving. These deals are an attempt to bring real value to employees and shareholders and create networks that actually thrive in the long run.

 

[robbedagain]

I can see a UA/CO happening. However, I firmly believe AA will not sit around long and watch as DL/NW and UA/CO are above. I believe they will most likely make deals with their unions then make a run for US.

 

[usa1]

Wouldn't be good for US employees, but the best thing for stock holders would be if Republic took over and completely reinvented the airline, shedding lots of routes and coming out with a business plan more like Southwest. The new airline would be smaller, pay less and and drive the legacy's nuts ....

 

[LUVJAMESC4EVER]

Wouldn't be good for US employees, but the best thing for stock holders would be if Republic took over and completely reinvented the airline, shedding lots of routes and coming out with a business plan more like Southwest. The new airline would be smaller, pay less and and drive the legacy's nuts ....

I don't THINK SO---I LOVE US for NOW---we can start flying to from PHX to SGN, HKG, NRT, BKK, once we got some of those NEW airbus on the property---and begin our PHX-SYD and make LAX or SEA our focus city to NRT, HNL, TPE, PEK...than from PHL to Moscow or India.... Why not fly to ASIA...is that what we plan to swap with DL for in NYC? A Route to NRT?????? May be we can have a HUB in NRT---you never know....

 

[DesertFA66]

It's a mixed day for US Airways. Sad in some ways, because they need to grow and pick up more revenue opportunties, even though they seem to have done relatively well during the economic downturn.

As for the pilots of the old US Airways contract. It's clear that the "change of control" provision is a problem for the company and Parker acknowledged that during the pilot Crew News. And just for the record, this further explains the the "keep the name" thing that everyone has been so upset about.

USAPA is another thorn in the side for the entire company. It's very sad to see how the east pilots have taken what looked like a good promise when the merger occurred, to a situation that is negatively affecting the company's reputation, the flight attendant agreement or lack thereof and how we became the "ugly girl at the prom" as so many people have mentioned. There does not appear to be any end in sight over the pilot battle and for that, I am very sorry for the many employees of US Airways/America West.

America West Flight Attendants continue to suffer through a contract that has not been renewed, wages and contractual language that is 10 years old and wages for the middle seniority that is far below our counterparts. Not to mention, the continued erosion of morale...... All sides to be "get on board" and make things happen and resolve these issues so we can move on with our careers.

 

[pilot]

It's a mixed day for US Airways. Sad in some ways, because they need to grow and pick up more revenue opportunties, even though they seem to have done relatively well during the economic downturn.

As for the pilots of the old US Airways contract. It's clear that the "change of control" provision is a problem for the company and Parker acknowledged that during the pilot Crew News. And just for the record, this further explains the the "keep the name" thing that everyone has been so upset about.

USAPA is another thorn in the side for the entire company. It's very sad to see how the east pilots have taken what looked like a good promise when the merger occurred, to a situation that is negatively affecting the company's reputation, the flight attendant agreement or lack thereof and how we became the "ugly girl at the prom" as so many people have mentioned. There does not appear to be any end in sight over the pilot battle and for that, I am very sorry for the many employees of US Airways/America West.

America West Flight Attendants continue to suffer through a contract that has not been renewed, wages and contractual language that is 10 years old and wages for the middle seniority that is far below our counterparts. Not to mention, the continued erosion of morale...... All sides to be "get on board" and make things happen and resolve these issues so we can move on with our careers.

You truly don't understand what was given up by the east pilot group to "save" the company over two BK's. The promise of good merger is only made good by a company that treats the pilots, as well as the rest of the employees, as assets. And I will be quite frank, the pilots are the single most important human asset of any airline including this one. If management does not understand that fact, as apparently this management does not, the chances of success are slim at best.

Parker thinks he is working with a Mesa pilot group. He cannot figure out we are not going to give in. Neither can the west pilots. They truly don't understand the animosity and ill will that has been going on long before america west entered the fray. We gave up most everything to save the airline only to get #### on once again. If it fails, it fails. Big freakin deal.

Parker could have solved this pilot problem a long time ago. But he felt that pitting two pilot groups against each other was an economic boon to his operation. He still does. He has no leadership skills and no regard for what is important in this business. We will struggle along with the mismanagement and disgruntled pilot groups until some patsy comes in and attempts to buy parts of the airline to fit the needs of his airline.

 

[wings396]

Have you been reading the news? He did know about this, and in the end decided that UA was uncomfortable with the change of control clause that required US to be the acquiring airline. There was a chance of getting relief from USAPA but that effort was fruitless.

It has been saying for years that UA would only be in the driver's seat if it were to pursue a merger.


No one at UA likes Tilton. That is a fact. But again, if you read the news coming out you will see that he will not be the CEO in a UA/CO combination.



I don't understand the need to assign blame and figure out who "saved" who. In case you didn't notice neither UA nor CO are considering bankruptcy this time around. The UA/CO merger is not about saving one airline from oblivion (as many others have been) but about creating a powerful combination to create more long term stability in a changing industry. Notice the news of the deal being structured as a stock for stock transaction with no premium. And Tilton remains as Chairman but not CEO.

It is being structured much the same way the DL/NW merger was, with neither airline "saving" the other. NW, DL, CO, and UA could all continue to muddle along independently and survive for many years while not necessarily thriving. These deals are an attempt to bring real value to employees and shareholders and create networks that actually thrive in the long run.

I agree with you to an extent. My post about Tinton and the pilots referred to him knowing about the US pilot contract PRIOR to even starting talks with US. I can only assume that he did, and can't understand why he even wasted everyone's time with proceeding. If it was an issue from the start, either try to work around it, or decline to enter merger talks in the first place.
I wasn't sure if Tinton wanted to be in the drivers seat or not when it came to UA/CO. To be honest with you, I think that CO is fully capable of going it alone without a merger with UA. As evident by their recent actions, I don't feel that they would have acted at all had it not been for the talks between US/UA. They acted more on fear of being left out in the cold as a smaller competitor than they did a mode of survival. If they were all that keen on a merger with UA, they would have pounced on it in 2008 or soon after the NW/DL merger was announced. CO is a very well run airline, and I'm sure they will continue on when merged if they stay in control of the airline. In sort, UA needs this combination more than CO does, thus my remark about one saving the other. I realize that me be a bit overstated since UA is not in terrible shape at this time either. I just feel that UA will benefit more from this can CO had they stood alone.

 

[wings396]

It's a mixed day for US Airways. Sad in some ways, because they need to grow and pick up more revenue opportunties, even though they seem to have done relatively well during the economic downturn.

As for the pilots of the old US Airways contract. It's clear that the "change of control" provision is a problem for the company and Parker acknowledged that during the pilot Crew News. And just for the record, this further explains the the "keep the name" thing that everyone has been so upset about.

USAPA is another thorn in the side for the entire company. It's very sad to see how the east pilots have taken what looked like a good promise when the merger occurred, to a situation that is negatively affecting the company's reputation, the flight attendant agreement or lack thereof and how we became the "ugly girl at the prom" as so many people have mentioned. There does not appear to be any end in sight over the pilot battle and for that, I am very sorry for the many employees of US Airways/America West.

America West Flight Attendants continue to suffer through a contract that has not been renewed, wages and contractual language that is 10 years old and wages for the middle seniority that is far below our counterparts. Not to mention, the continued erosion of morale...... All sides to be "get on board" and make things happen and resolve these issues so we can move on with our careers.

I pretty much agree with you on this one. This isn't the first time that the fate of ALL employees has rested in the pilot groups hands. I don't want to torch up the East vs West battle, but at this point it has bitten us all in the ###. As I posted before, at one point our station was slated to close depending on what the Pilots did or didn't do. It is all very sad because this airline has lots of good employees as well as lots of potential that is dwindling away. The fleet group lost it's CIC language in the last CBA, and the company was big on getting rid of it for this very reason. Would I have liked to cash in on it? Sure, but not if it was a deal breaker that could cost us to lose it all in the end. In good times, it may not have been an issue, but in today's environment it proved to be the biggest issue of all.

 

[767jetz]

CO is a very well run airline, and I'm sure they will continue on when merged if they stay in control of the airline. In sort, UA needs this combination more than CO does, thus my remark about one saving the other. I realize that me be a bit overstated since UA is not in terrible shape at this time either. I just feel that UA will benefit more from this can CO had they stood alone.

The biggest benefit to UA will be getting Tilton away from the helm. That has been our biggest problem for years. I agree that CO is a well run airline and I only hope (actually I'm pretty confident from what I've seen) that their management team takes a different approach (than Tilton) with employees, and collaborates with us to actually run a world class airline.

 

[767jetz]

With the pending closure of this thread on the US forum it brings to mind the many years of bantering back and forth, often in heated and emotional moments, between our employee groups. It seems to me that if the UA/CO merger actually materializes, this will have been the final chapter in our discussions on the matter, as I doubt the combination of US and UA will ever be visited again.

Can anyone venture a guess as to how many pages on the subject of USAirways and United have been logged since the beginning?

I would just like to say thanks to the many US employees with whom I've had rational and thoughtful debates with over the years about various attempted combinations of our companies, even when we disagreed. (Which was most of the time.) And to those whose interactions were less than respectful, I still wish you the best going forward. To the East pilots I do sincerely hope that you find closure to your ongoing seniority integration, and that you get to work the remaining years of your careers in some type of harmony with your West counterparts. I know that many US pilots, east and west, saw a merger with UA as a road to getting past your stalemate one way or another.

Finally, to the one person I've probably spent the most bandwidth on, USA320pilot... Your theories and opinions on the subject of US and UA have been interesting to say the least. Regardless of how things worked out in the end, I enjoyed most (if not all) of our debates, and it certainly gave food for much thought, and brought a certain flare to this forum.

Good luck to all! May clearer skies be on the horizon for all of us.

 

[robbedagain]

If UA and CO actually does come to fruitation, just how long will US stay alone as well as AA? I just cant see how US would be able to stand it alone inthe environment its in if UA/CO mergers come true

 

[beachboy]

If UA and CO actually does come to fruitation, just how long will US stay alone as well as AA? I just cant see how US would be able to stand it alone inthe environment its in if UA/CO mergers come true

Study up on the Scope section of your contract. Esp fragmentation.