US AFA topic title edited by moderator

[Onestep2flt]

Most of what has been said is very true. However, when you are pinching pennies you look at the total compensation. There is a cost attached to every sentence in your contract. It is then broke down to individual flight attendant. Sick time, vacation pay and time, insurance benefits. There is a cost for everything. You may be right that your big offenders of overfly are the highest paid in dollar per hour amount. The thing is that you can pay fewer people more per hour and it cost less in the long run. Example: Your mechanics get called for overtime daily. Why does the company do that instead of hiring more? Because paying fewer mechanics overtime is cheaper in the long run to the bean counters.

I think if you are going to fight the fight you must concentrate you efforts to get your union leadership to uphold the contract that is currently in place. If you ever expect to get a better contract the present one has to be upheld. Good luck to you all.

 

[Furloughd4now]

The problem is the company pays each reserve flight attendant a minimum guarantee yet they NEVER break it. I know the company wants just that. Now as far as east flight attendants go, reserves receive a 73 hour guarantee. Ok, now you have your topped out flight attendants flying 120 to 130 or more hours a month? At international premium as a majority? I just don't see the company not caring. As much as they like to pinch a penny I find it rather shocking. :blink:

I have a BIG problem with the union not stepping in. I know the fine line the union walks with discipline but wrong is wrong. When what one employee does affects another YES it needs rectified. It's pure BS. The overfly situation is out of control.

Hey Mike, You listening?????

If you look at another post this 25 yr FA works 120 hrs a month .... Pathetic! Yea they get overfly letters but thats it ... Best part is I hear, "Well I have a mortgage" .... oh pardon me I don't, oh wait I DO. Pls, I understand about the pension, etc and the sacrifices you have made over the years, but we all have our own issues and why we are where we are right now. That doesn't make it any better, we are ALL in the same boat.

Best Part? We cutback, it all goes to the regionals, RJ kids are getting all the flying ... again.... You won't be seeing furloughs at Republic or Whiskey anytime soon!

 

[USstew23]

Well what really gets my goat is the fact that on the West they get to keep their ID's, jumpseat, utilize the cabin seat agreements, active registered guests, buddy passes, travel as S3, AND the company won't contest unemployment claims!! Really seems fair especially if I'm on a VF and trying to nonrev on a flight where a junior west f/a on a VLOA (the same comparable leave) gets on and I don't! (No offense to the West f/a's but the company needs to start leveling the playing field all the way around, ie the pay disparity between the East and West RSV's).

 

[tahitigirl]

Many f/a's are still on the 105. They can fly 105 company and then still pick up ETB time. They are not doing anything wrong as far as the contract. They are just taking advantage of what is available to them. As a reserve myself I a long time ago said I didn't think it fair that rsv's have to give up off days just to make a living wage. But every month I search the ETB for trips to bring in my 105 check. The system itself is broken not the people working it.

 

[VAflyGal]

Not everyone that is flying a million hours a month is on the 105. The system is broken, the people who overfly (especially from the beloved AIL) are self serving and the union and the company allow it to happen.

What wouls happen if we all flew 70-75 a month? It would force us to demand the wages we are due and keep more people on property.

There are many a bitter, kicked-around reserve who has all but had being sold down the river. Explain to me how a reserve can DH to CLT and work one leg back for a whopping 1.33 hours of pay on an 8 hour duty day when show no go pays 2 hours. Makes no sense.

God forbid we had a rotating reserve system like some other airlines where people who have no clue get schooled. Perhaps we would all feel more united if there weren't such stratification among we stews.

Many f/a's are still on the 105. They can fly 105 company and then still pick up ETB time. They are not doing anything wrong as far as the contract. They are just taking advantage of what is available to them. As a reserve myself I a long time ago said I didn't think it fair that rsv's have to give up off days just to make a living wage. But every month I search the ETB for trips to bring in my 105 check. The system itself is broken not the people working it.

 

[beachboy]

There are many a bitter, kicked-around reserve who has all but had being sold down the river. Explain to me how a reserve can DH to CLT and work one leg back for a whopping 1.33 hours of pay on an 8 hour duty day when show no go pays 2 hours. Makes no sense.

God forbid we had a rotating reserve system like some other airlines where people who have no clue get schooled. Perhaps we would all feel more united if there weren't such stratification among we stews.

Well, it's possible because of 2 bankruptcies and a membership that voted it in with guns to the head. What they did was do different than getting mugged at gunpoint. Thugs.

Rotation reserve is not going to happen so just stop thinking about it. An 80% commuter airline with multiple mergers. Heck I call that "Heritige Logo" the circle of death. The worst move they made was to "honor" everyone's "heritage" It should have been re branded and only look forward with a clear intent. All that does is enforce division. Rotation rsv would only work with a level seniority field and attrition of which US doesn't have. Unless they offer a buyout and let the top heavy people have a way out, it's a cooked Goose.

 

[Onestep2flt]

All the points made here are well taken. However, until enough people band together and squeeze the union leadership on the matters at hand it will remain status-quo. A lot of time on here is wasted talking about local leaders. I think you are going after the wrong fish. You can change local leaders till the cows come home, but the end result will be much the same. Your MEC leadership should be your target audience. I do not profess to know about union structure but it is no different than corporate structure. Decisions are top down. Local leaders are mere lower managers. Yes, they are important and they deal with everyday local issues, but change happens at the top! This is where contract negotiations takes place.

From the outside looking in, I see several issues. It seems no different than your company management. I only deduct this from watching these boards and again am no expert in the matter. I think your union leaders are a stale group that have been in place too long. Like airline management it is a revolving door policy and they just rotate from position to position within the union. You folks have talked about how some of these people have not put on a uniform in years. What is up with that? They become to comfortable with their daily "duties of fighting for your rights". Some have probably become too cozy with management. Some are just there because nobody has thought to get rid of them yet. If even a fraction of what is said on this board is true then I envision some of these people sitting by the pool sipping on wine all day while you guys are out getting stepped on. People complain that there supervisors are not flight attendants. Well, I would argue that you have some in the union ranks that are not flight attendants. Sure, they were once flight attendants that "paid their dues", but that ship sailed a long time ago. You are in a totally different work environment now. Maybe they should slip on the uniform and go out and work a few trips. I have been told that some of them do. Remember though that a lot of these folks are senior enough that the main contract issues do not even apply to them. Think your reserve system.

Another issue I see is your negotiating team. The company hires big union busting firms like Harrison and Ford and your union has a couple of flight attendants and some "Staff Attorney" on hand. What is a staff attorney? My understanding is that a staff attorney is someone who is knowledgeable on general law. Kind of like a general practice medical doctor. They don't specialize in say pathology. I am sure they went to some union course on negotiating tactics but are still not specialist is contract law. This is apperant because it looks as though you could fly your entire fleet of airplanes though the holes that exist in your contract.

Again, I think the issue is you need a big enough voice to bring the top leaders into accountibility. If your current contract is being broken you must hold your top leaders to the fire. If you have prrof of events to bring before them do it now. Waiting for your next contract is too late. It was brought up that some can fly to 105 hours so you must be sure it is not just these people who appearently are allowed to.

 

[hp_fa]

Another issue I see is your negotiating team. The company hires big union busting firms like Harrison and Ford and your union has a couple of flight attendants and some "Staff Attorney" on hand. What is a staff attorney? My understanding is that a staff attorney is someone who is knowledgeable on general law. Kind of like a general practice medical doctor. They don't specialize in say pathology. I am sure they went to some union course on negotiating tactics but are still not specialist is contract law. This is apperant because it looks as though you could fly your entire fleet of airplanes though the wholes that exist in your contract.

I'll answer this one. The "staff attorneys" are dedicated specialists that are not akin to a general attorney as the term is commonly known. These staff attorneys generally work on labor contract issues, so they have the expertise to provide good support for the union.

 

[beachboy]

Was just reading the AboutUS this week and just got my goat. Mike Flores if your reading this I hope the term PAY CAP means something. Call Greg Davidowitch at UAL. This place needs a pay cap period. 100 max and go the hell home. This 160 hours is insane. Plus it helps the stagnant seniority list. I don't want to hear it won't pass. Try. I am sick of waiting around to read the obituary wall, no one likes to move up in that manner or waiting on someone to break a hip. It's sick from start to finish.
No, get a pay cap with a rolling average every month.
And on that note the company thinks we are stupid. I said it yesterday FURLOUGH us! Did you read the contract people? Go ahead and exercise those provisions. The "kept" gals continue to take the VF's only to leave the most JR flapping in the breeze on "abuse" mode. Those JR people would be much better served to take 4 months paid off with unemployment and travel with some healthcare. You want to play the game Tempe? Lets play, our contract allows us to clean your clock but you think we are to stupid to call you at your own game. We can read things other than US Weekly. Very sad to see the first real substantive communication from Hector is on this furlough issue. what a shame.

PS- from the AFA email: "Can I double up on TVL?" AFA: YES! Well excuse me! What person in their right mind would want to? It's not safe PERIOD and should not be allowed. The fly til you die program and the latter will sadly start to happen in flight very soon along with blown slides from flying in that pattern.

PSS: And an email from the MEC RSV chair on things that are sent out ALL the time for the past 6 years that most of us are familiar with. What's interesting is it just happens to appear in our email days after her position was posted for renewal. We have not heard from her on anything in forever! If you are going to try and fight for your political life you better hit it out of the ballpark! We need substance not regurgitated cut and paste.

 

[Onestep2flt]

I'll answer this one. The "staff attorneys" are dedicated specialists that are not akin to a general attorney as the term is commonly known. These staff attorneys generally work on labor contract issues, so they have the expertise to provide good support for the union.

I am glad to see I am wrong on the attorney issue. However, the fact remains that it sure looks as though someone is dropping the ball on contact language that has significant gaps and sometimes contradictory language according to acquaintances.

Again, I am no expert on the subject. I am one of those that believe with good management a union is not necessary. Having said that the airlines have proved me wrong on this issue time and again.

 

[hp_fa]

I am glad to see I am wrong on the attorney issue. However, the fact remains that it sure looks as though someone is dropping the ball on contact language that has significant gaps and sometimes contradictory language according to acquaintances.

There are significant problems with the process and in that your overall impression is valid.

The Company plays with this issue. I used the word "plays" on purpose. It is a game, albeit a high stakes game.

Once a contract is completed, after a lot of negotiating over the various sections that comprise the contract, the contract is voted up or down. Once the contract is voted up then it has often been noted in the past that various Company workgroups other than the party to the contract start trying to get creative with interpretations of what the contract says. Most of the time the workgroups in question are scheduling, bid administration and payroll. When a dispute arises over what the union thought was well-crafted language that clearly displays the intent of the parties the union has to grieve the issue and that can take over a year. In the meantime the union members have to "fly it and grieve it" which obviously makes the union members upset. It isn't unheard of that the customers get shafted because of upset flight crews who are upset and generally mad at whatever the contract issue is that is causing their problems.

I would not disagree with the premise that the system is broken and describing the system in full would be a very long explanation and it involves a lot of federal law. The reality is that the company generally has a lot of power and the only time the unions have any real power is when, after a lot of negotiations and discussions fail to resolve issues and a federal mediator may grant the union the power to strike. It is only then that the union has any real power, otherwise the company can and will basically play their game and the unionized employees are the unhappy folks.

 

[Onestep2flt]

PSS: And an email from the MEC RSV chair on things that are sent out ALL the time for the past 6 years that most of us are familiar with. What's interesting is it just happens to appear in our email days after her position was posted for renewal. We have not heard from her on anything in forever! If you are going to try and fight for your political life you better hit it out of the ballpark! We need substance not regurgitated cut and paste.

Right there is your chance for some change. You need to rally your troops. The only way that change will come is if you guys all band together and vote for change. If past practice is a guide, that will not happen unless you make it happen. I think most of your group is fine with status-quo unless it affects them directly. Look at your MEC president as an example. Some of his writings can be quite passionate, but only if it seems to affect him on a personal level. Otherwise he seems to be mute. I think lack of communication is another problem now that I think about it. For instance, when are the flight attendants on the east going to be informed about the west being released to negotiate with the company for their own separate contract. This might be a good thing or a bad thing. I would think that your MEC on the east would let the flight attendants know the potential good or potential pitfalls of this little development. Even as an outsider I would sure like his take on this. How did the crew rest arbitration go? I hear only crickets. Just food for thought

 

[Travelpro72]

Ok I read that eline from Ms. Baker. Ummm was there ANYTHING in that eline that we don't already know? Talk about late to the party.

 

[FlyGuyBWI]

I am glad to see I am wrong on the attorney issue. However, the fact remains that it sure looks as though someone is dropping the ball on contact language that has significant gaps and sometimes contradictory language according to acquaintances.

Again, I am no expert on the subject. I am one of those that believe with good management a union is not necessary. Having said that the airlines have proved me wrong on this issue time and again.

Maybe this is a late comment, but ... Most people would be amazed by the talent, education and experience that our Flight Attendant negotiators bring to the table. Couple that with our dedicated staff of labor attorneys and outside counsel, and I think we are well represented. However, the economy is what it is. So, If and When we need to make a stand, our position may rely on member support. We can bit*h and moan on these boards all we want, but when "punch comes to shove", if we are not ready to take action for our futures, all the hard work and "smarts" of our negotiating team won't mean squat..

Start saving for CHAOS now .... in a a few years, we're going to need to be prepared.

For now, stay informed, and communicate with your negotiating team.

"Just stating opinion"

 

[theFLYonthewall]

Not everyone that is flying a million hours a month is on the 105. The system is broken, the people who overfly (especially from the beloved AIL) are self serving and the union and the company allow it to happen.

What wouls happen if we all flew 70-75 a month? It would force us to demand the wages we are due and keep more people on property.

There are many a bitter, kicked-around reserve who has all but had being sold down the river. Explain to me how a reserve can DH to CLT and work one leg back for a whopping 1.33 hours of pay on an 8 hour duty day when show no go pays 2 hours. Makes no sense.

God forbid we had a rotating reserve system like some other airlines where people who have no clue get schooled. Perhaps we would all feel more united if there weren't such stratification among we stews.

I fly 120+ hrs a month. I bid my line then I SAP, I usually drop one or two on the ETB to free up days, so that leaves me with about 65-70 hours of company time. The additional time I pick up from the ETB. I do not feel bad at all about flying 120 hours a month. I am certainly NOT taking any time away from a reserve, they had a chance to pick up that ETB trip before me. I am not overflying company time.

The difference is, I will not violate my contract. My contract with the company says my MAX is 90 hours of company time each month unless the MAX is set differently by the manager/director of crew scheduling. Those that overfly company time are violating our contract, that is a union a issue not a company issue.