MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE

[Charlie_Tuna]

Your speach was moving no doubt. But in THIS case, DOH is a windfall. Plan and simple.

What part of agreeing to Binding Arbitration don't you understand?

You threw out all rights to windfall or any other claims when you couldn't come to an agreement and agreed to Binding Arbitration.

What you guys don't want to face is all your claims to anything are moot points now. You agreed to let someone else decide you fate. You made your bed. It is over.

Plan and simple

 

[flyin2low]

A merger isn't sucessful unless both sides are unhappy So the question is, what can be done to make the west pilots unhappy about the list?

 

[luvn737s]

A merger isn't sucessful unless both sides are unhappy So the question is, what can be done to make the west pilots unhappy about the list?

Ask the #1 west guy how happy he is.

 

[Phoenix]

Ask the #1 west guy how happy he is.

OK. So one guy is p.o.ed. How should the other 1799 be made to bith and moan?

 

[EastUS]

OK. So one guy is p.o.ed. How should the other 1799 be made to bith and moan?

ONE guy's perhaps unhappy?...and only 3+ thousand out east?
Whew!..That makes everything OK then Turns out that we're just upset over nothing.

 

[exB717Flyer]

A merger isn't sucessful unless both sides are unhappy So the question is, what can be done to make the west pilots unhappy about the list?

Force any alterations to the Nicolau Award.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Force any alterations to the Nicolau Award.

And there's the rub - nobody can alter the award itself save for a Federal judge, and only then under very narrow circumstances. Implementation is another issue and really the only thing that can be affected is the timeline. At some point this award will be implemented in toto. I suspect the next merger will be what forces the implementation. One thing is for sure, the ALPA EC would be better served by crawling down onto the subway tracks and taking a firm hold of the third rail before touching this award. We're not just talking DFR suits, but an entire array of claims under both contract and tort law. They'd be attempting to screw with a system designed so that it can't be screwed with. No...it ain't going to happen. The EC is just buying time is all. I suspect the EC is hinting to Johnny Mac that amazing rewards await him if he can somehow "help" the EC out of this situation without having to make a decision. No disrespect to Johnny, but I guarantee that the inner circle has its own agenda and is employing past practices proven effective in these exact type of situations. It's all about dues money - keep it coming in.

 

[ClueByFour]

"If you offered anything they could use to further their cause, I'm sure they would shmooze you, but since you don't, they won't." I believe that your statement says more about how you think then it does the actual case with the sentiments out east.

What, for the first time in 10 years or so the East group won't throw the younglings under the bus?

Unlikely.

Let me ask the question: How is keeping what each of us has earned a "windfall"?

You don't "earn" seniority. You "accrue" it. Your accrued seniority would not hold a job at the merger time with AWA, whereas theirs would. 18 years at AAA might hold a nice FO position, whereas it will hold a Captain spot at HP. What you are seeking to do is usurp the luck/judgment of the West guys who were working for the healthy carrier. That's all DOH serves to do in this case.

It's very simple, really. The DOH thing to any reasonable person (indeed, most outside the AAA pilot group in ALPA and certainly all of us out here in the real world) is laughable. Pilots who did not have (or bring) a job to the merger jumping those that did--that's almost funny.

 

[yvrusfa]

Your speach was moving no doubt. But in THIS case, DOH is a windfall. Plan and simple.

JetMonkey is totally correct.

DOH for the pilots, even under ALPA merger integration rules would be a CLEAR windfall for /east pilots!! Some might even bring out an old favourite word...."STAPLE" to describe a /west DOH integration with /east.

It does'nt matter how much seniority any one /east pilot feels they have earned. The reasons why so many /east pilots with, say 22 years seniority are sitting right seat on a 737 and have furloughees back to 1989 is due to industry conditions, multiple BK's and stifling labour contracts in the past.
It is what it is.

It is not therefore up to /west pilots to have to take the hit for it with a DOH award which would effectively...STAPLE them to the bottom.

Simple.

 

[LCC_#1]

Obviously nothing. Simply an attempt at humor. I think at this point, we could all use a laugh.

I apologize for being of the mark....

JESUS CHRIST, PEOPLE....LIGHTEN UP!!!
And YOU, Mr Furlough, dont need to apologize!! Geez!! :down:

 

[Mr Furlough]

What, for the first time in 10 years or so the East group won't throw the younglings under the bus?

Unlikely.
You don't "earn" seniority. You "accrue" it. Your accrued seniority would not hold a job at the merger time with AWA, whereas theirs would. 18 years at AAA might hold a nice FO position, whereas it will hold a Captain spot at HP. What you are seeking to do is usurp the luck/judgment of the West guys who were working for the healthy carrier. That's all DOH serves to do in this case.

It's very simple, really. The DOH thing to any reasonable person (indeed, most outside the AAA pilot group in ALPA and certainly all of us out here in the real world) is laughable. Pilots who did not have (or bring) a job to the merger jumping those that did--that's almost funny.

"You don't earn seniority...you accrue it?" While your sense of humor is perking up try re-reading your post. Because it's a joke. As far as possessing a job-you are using smoke and mirrors to attempt to steal my seniority. I have a job, I've been working for this company for, I expect, one hell of a lot longer than you. Your real world doesn't seem so real when an overwhelming amount of pilots on the system board recognized the damage proposed in the Nicolau Award.

You simply can't leap frog under a seniority system-no matter how you couch it. You can, however, put into place mechanisms that duly protect each group from the adverse effects that exist due to the disparity in our longevity.

Best,

 

[LCC_#1]

Your speach was moving no doubt. But in THIS case, DOH is a windfall. Plan and simple.


...STAPLE them to the bottom.

Simple.

Your statement is why there will be no healing and this company is well on it's way to another chapter 11.

Oh no, the West isn't arrogant or entitled. You guys are all full of shhiitt!!

"You don't earn seniority...you accrue it?"
You simply can't leap frog under a seniority system-no matter how you couch it. You can, however, put into place mechanisms that duly protect each group from the adverse effects that exist due to the disparity in our longevity.

Best,

Not to worry Mr F, the way this company is being ran, the WEST pilots won't have to worry..they will soon be out of a job and their entitled attitudes will be no more important than the East. Or perhaps when someone like American buys us and TRULY staples them to the bottom, then we can here them cheer about being thankful they have a job and that AA saved them...as if AA would even consider the idea.

By the way West pilots, it will be a pleasure to bring my over 20 yrs as a f/a out west...senority and all! Are you going to be as quick to defend MY unions DOH stand against one of your West f/a's when they biatch that I stole their line? I can't wait to see you guys back peddle and sweat then.

 

[b737fo]

By the way West pilots, it will be a pleasure to bring my over 20 yrs as a f/a out west...senority and all! Are you going to be as quick to defend MY unions DOH stand against one of your West f/a's when they biatch that I stole their line? I can't wait to see you guys back peddle and sweat then.

I will defend your integrated list because it happened to follow the AFA bylaws as they were written. Does it hurt the senior West F/A's to lose some relative seniority? Of course but there was a specific guideline for merging two AFA groups together. If that was an unacceptable method to some, then the time to try and change the bylaws should have been before the merger. BTW I never see a group of West F/As on this board threatening to burn this place down or yank AFA representation from the East F/As. It is refreshing actually. See you out west when you bring your 20 years with you. Remember to bid A320 flying in the summer.

 

[wopr21]

Your speach was moving no doubt. But in THIS case, DOH is a windfall. Plan and simple.

You are correct that DOH is a windfall without fences and protections. So is slotting without fences and protections. The Nic winfall did neither to benefit the whole group So... If you put appropriate fences in place and let time an attrition take its course, you all get to own the airline and flying you never dreamed of since most of us easties wil be gone.
From what I have seen you west folks have had no distant vision of what you will have a few years down the road, only what you will have tomorrow.

I hope that we will get this worked out and have a great airline to fly for again.

Peace

wopr21

 

[Pilot692]

And there's the rub - nobody can alter the award itself save for a Federal judge, and only then under very narrow circumstances. Implementation is another issue and really the only thing that can be affected is the timeline. At some point this award will be implemented in toto. I suspect the next merger will be what forces the implementation. One thing is for sure, the ALPA EC would be better served by crawling down onto the subway tracks and taking a firm hold of the third rail before touching this award. We're not just talking DFR suits, but an entire array of claims under both contract and tort law. They'd be attempting to screw with a system designed so that it can't be screwed with. No...it ain't going to happen. The EC is just buying time is all. I suspect the EC is hinting to Johnny Mac that amazing rewards await him if he can somehow "help" the EC out of this situation without having to make a decision. No disrespect to Johnny, but I guarantee that the inner circle has its own agenda and is employing past practices proven effective in these exact type of situations. It's all about dues money - keep it coming in.

You can sue all you want....in 10 years when the case is heard the "award" will be found to have violated ALPA merger policy. The EC knows this as the 14-1 (guess who the "1" is)vote indicates. Prater will attempt a fix. The #1 AW guy who got "screwed" by jumping 260 numbers ahead of his date of hire...date of alpa...length of service or anything else...will be looking out of a windshield of a 330 on his way to Rome wondering what he was all p.o'd about... Way more than you deserve. Check the financials at usairways.com for further proof. We built this dump and it'll be all yours in about 6 years. A blink of an eye when you're 30.
As far as the theory of the EC buying some "cool down" time...this place is radioactive till fixed. It ain't cooling down...it just might melt down though.
Let's hope not, shall we?

Your speach was moving no doubt. But in THIS case, DOH is a windfall. Plan and simple.

JetMonkey is totally correct.

DOH for the pilots, even under ALPA merger integration rules would be a CLEAR windfall for /east pilots!! Some might even bring out an old favourite word...."STAPLE" to describe a /west DOH integration with /east.

It does'nt matter how much seniority any one /east pilot feels they have earned. The reasons why so many /east pilots with, say 22 years seniority are sitting right seat on a 737 and have furloughees back to 1989 is due to industry conditions, multiple BK's and stifling labour contracts in the past.
It is what it is.

It is not therefore up to /west pilots to have to take the hit for it with a DOH award which would effectively...STAPLE them to the bottom.

Simple.

There will be no stapling anywhere. We never asked for that. Fences (Conditions and Restrictions) will do the trick...basically keeping us apart for a number of years until the Airways folks are gone (retiring 250+ a year scheduled-they'll be more than that)and mixing new fleet in. It can be a win/win if you just let it be.