united usairways deal may be falling apart

[autofixer]

I think both of these CEOs are setting us up. They are feeding the lazy media that the problem is, was and will be, labor. They will try to engage in pressuring labor through the media to get concessions to "do the deal". Here is my answer, "nuts!"

 

[Fly]

They won't convince labor at United. We think it's great. We don't want a deal.

 

[sharktooth]

I am no fan of mergers because they have a lot of short & medium-term employee pain.

Ya forgot long term pain, see NW/Republic.

 

[autofixer]

They won't convince labor at United. We think it's great. We don't want a deal.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't want any part of anymore mergers. I believe the former AWA employees may be gullible enough to go for this deal but us Easties will say "nuts!" (I hope)

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways, United Airlines bosses to meet in Chicago

After The New York Times reported late Tuesday that discussions between the two airlines "appear to have fallen apart," Mr. Parker asked Mr. Tilton today if the report was true and Mr. Tilton reassured Mr. Parker that "was not the case," according to the source. Tomorrow's meeting may determine the extent of any conflict within United regarding a potential deal, the source said.

See Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[freedom]

Labor isn’t the problem , oil is the problem , everyone knows this ….

The problem where labor comes in , is that many of the airline workers who’ve been here for 20,30,40 years want their pay and benefits to go back to the way it used to be .. For some STRANGE reason ,there are still many in the industry who can’t make the “adjustment “ but no matter , labor truly will be an easy beast to tame …

Workers who’ve put in 20 or 30 years will do just about anything to keep their jobs … and as for the “pilot†problem , where will unemployed pilots go in an industry that’s downsizing ?

 

[flybynite]

Wow that was quite a post ART … at this point I’d have to say your completely biased in your opinion .

First of all by merging the two airlines Doug parker saved THOUSANDS of job , mine included and with the price of oil the way it is today , I highly doubt EITHER airline would still have its doors open if we hadn’t combined …

You criticize our IT department , customer service and make the usual baseless accusation that management has lined their pockets at the workers expense… I can’t express how tired I am of hearing the same sad song played over and over and over ….

Guess what people this is 2008 not 1975 ….. Our mission is a simple one , get people from point A to point B with their luggage and on time …

In order to do this we MUST remain competitive , this means that it was necessary for Parker and crew to try new things , lowering service levels ETC … if I recall ,were we not one of the first major airlines to offer REALLY REALLY low prices to business travelers ? Yet I don’t hear anyone singing us praise ? Why ? Because many of you are trapped in some sort of idealistic past … where all of the FA’s are hot female flight attendants , you can still smoke on planes and your part of the “elite†class in this country all by sitting in business class …

This is the cold reality … oil is at 130 a barrel , Americans are cutting back their travel , businesses are cutting back their travel or putting their people in coach and flying ISN’T classy anymore , it’s just a mode of transport ..

The reality that I spoke of translates into this “we need to have the lowest overhead and costs for everything “ …This means we absolutely do not WANT a state of the art ,top of the line reservations system , we want what is cost effective for our company …it’s the same train of thought with customer service , we want to do what we can , but we’re not going to throw a free 757 at the PAX because one of the LAV’s smelled funny ..

What you want ART is a return to the old days of us airways , where service was everything and the workers were blinded into another reality where it was impossible for them to bankrupt their own company by demanding everything and the kitchen sink in their labor contracts ..

No thank you art , I’ll settle for our current reality , service is important , but not ALL important and while I’d like to be compensated for the work I do like a rock star , I’ll settle for what is fair …When we follow reality , the flying public gets a competitively priced seat and the workers get to keep their jobs .

Win win for everyone ..

Lord, reading your post just about made me spew my sweet iced tea.

First, Art has always been our corner. The employees.

Second, he has every right to criticize the IT dept and the customer service dept. He paid for the right.

Third, it would be lovely to get people from point A to point B with their luggage but we can't manage it because Tempe reconfigured the fleet to carry more people without a thought in their scull about how weight and balance comes into pay in the summer with heat and humidity.

Fourth, customer service is important. It's what separates us from each other. It can and will make or break any company. Especially in the airline business. The flying public is unforgiving.

When we have an unreliable and user unfriendly product, we lose everything. The customer will go elsewhere. And that's fair.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Freedom,

Your comments are accurate. Moreover, I believe Scott Kirby wanted to meet with USAPA on May 19 to discuss the merger and the union elected to not meet with US Airways’ president. Instead of being part of the solution and obtaining important information USAPA may be taking a “hardline†stance because they may not be able to fulfill campaign promises. Thus, if things go “south†it would be easier to blame somebody else.

I believe you’re right when you said, “as for the 'pilot' problem, where will unemployed pilots go in an industry that’s downsizing?â€

I suspect management will go to US USAPA and UA ALPA and propose a pre-nuptial deal. The deal could be the current $122 million US offer to ALPA and now USAPA, US East and US West pilot fences, and the Nicolau Award, with the deal superimposed over the UA pilot group with pre-merger UA pilots having fences around their crew bases.

If either the US USAPA BPR or UA ALPA MEC rejects the new company’s joint offer then both airlines could be downsized to the minimum fleet count/minimum block hour limits with furloughs/downgraded pilots. Furthermore, according to former AWA MEC Chairman John McIllvenna, UA “scope section was gutted leaving little tangible leverage for the UAL MEC to exercise. The UA MEC has no BOD voting seat that has veto power like they did in the ESOP day.â€

Thus, what could management do to get the attention of labor? How about Force Majuere as a means to significantly downsize the two companies if either pilot group elects to fight the merger?

Informed sources with a thorough knowledge of the contract and labor law believe the higher cost of fuel will not by itself trigger the Force Majuere pilot contractual cause. However, it would have to amount to a much more severe crisis to be considered "out of the company's control" like the unavailability of fuel supplies or the ability to pay for fuel per the contract (Chapter K, Section 1(G)3 on pages 1-7 and 1-8).

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[robbedagain]

Labor isn’t the problem , oil is the problem , everyone knows this ….

The problem where labor comes in , is that many of the airline workers who’ve been here for 20,30,40 years want their pay and benefits to go back to the way it used to be .. For some STRANGE reason ,there are still many in the industry who can’t make the “adjustment “ but no matter , labor truly will be an easy beast to tame …

Workers who’ve put in 20 or 30 years will do just about anything to keep their jobs … and as for the “pilot†problem , where will unemployed pilots go in an industry that’s downsizing ?

Id be willing to bet that if you had 20 or 30 or 40 yrs you would want your pay back. Granted that oil is the major problem, but I also say that corporate is the bigger problem and the ineffective mgmt running US is also bad. I believe most of the folks who have 20 to 40 yrs made adjustments. If there is a merger, I doubt this labor groups at both carriers wil be easy to tame

 

[freedom]

Lord, reading your post just about made me spew my sweet iced tea.

First, Art has always been our corner. The employees.

Second, he has every right to criticize the IT dept and the customer service dept. He paid for the right.

Third, it would be lovely to get people from point A to point B with their luggage but we can't manage it because Tempe reconfigured the fleet to carry more people without a thought in their scull about how weight and balance comes into pay in the summer with heat and humidity.

Fourth, customer service is important. It's what separates us from each other. It can and will make or break any company. Especially in the airline business. The flying public is unforgiving.

When we have an unreliable and user unfriendly product, we lose everything. The customer will go elsewhere. And that's fair.

Yes art CAN criticize all he wants , but there are two sides to every story , and you mean to tell me art can’t say us airways has done ANYTHING right ? Please , I’m a grown adult , I can easily read obvious bias , and NO I don’t have to respect those types of opinions …


Your third point about we “can’t†etc etc … oh PLEASE … give me a freaking break , I work here , I fly on us , I do have EYES …. Read the paper , we’ve been number one in ontime arrivals for most of this year … please leave your “can’t negotiate with the company to our advantage so we have to hate the company “ mentality at the door when your talking to me .

Your forth point is a joke , look at WN …. They sure as heck ain’t the queen marry of the skies … what the flying public cares about in the new RECESSION , is price, pure and simple ..


We are continuing to make progress with our customer service and image , but we should be mindful to watch what our core issues are , and it’s staying competitive against the other airlines .


As to what PB said about the pilots being a problem , I completely discount our US airways pilots , right now their more interested in fighting each other than the company , and it looks to stay that way for years .. Even if we DID merge , the pilots would have no more leverage than any other labor group .. Sure they stop working for a day we close our doors , guess what , we baggage handlers stop working for a few days our doors would close , and the FA’s and MX … no one here can act out of line or everything is lost , and I think everyone knows this …


Anyways , my point in all of this was and continues to be that the best leadership for any new company would be DOUG PARKER … those of you who want to keep your jobs should start looking at it from less of a labor view point and more of a business view point …you’ll never get a new contract if our doors are shut … so stop hating for not being able to get #### done with your contract and start loving at the resolve and tactics that this management team has used to hold costs in check ..

 

[USA320Pilot]

AP sources: United, US Airways CEOs meet Thursday

People briefed on United-US Airways talks say CEOs to meet Thursday as deal efforts continue

See Story

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[N965VJ]

This thread is like the Twilight Zone.

 

[Pi brat]

DP & Co. have yet to prove they can negotiate a Pilots contract despite having had nearly three years to do so.
[/quote]

Bob,

They could have, they chose not to. I think DP thought why bother with a joint contract until the sen. is out, it will just cost money. Then the list came out and he east wasn't interested in talking about anything that would implement it.

I'd like to know if Doug thinks it was a mistake to not wrap up a deal before the list came out, (we would have then been forced to accept this list),or he's glad he didn't increase his costs.

 

[etops1]

this aint' over by a long shot. i started this thread because i thought it would be an interesting one. but i beleived it then and still beleive now that this merger will happen. as much as many people don't want it to, the fact of the matter is that tilton and parker could give a rats ass what we all think. it's all about the bottom line. so we can all sit here and type all we want and be armchair ceo's but in the end we cannot control what will happen. just sit back ,relax,and enjoy this crazy ride called "the airline industry".

 

[checksix]

US Airways, United Airlines bosses to meet in Chicago

After The New York Times reported late Tuesday that discussions between the two airlines "appear to have fallen apart," Mr. Parker asked Mr. Tilton today if the report was true and Mr. Tilton reassured Mr. Parker that "was not the case," according to the source. Tomorrow's meeting may determine the extent of any conflict within United regarding a potential deal, the source said.

See Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Well, that pretty much eliminates the "labor" blame game, sounds like more of an ego issue. Although I have heard reports of outside financing being difficult to come by for the proposed merger.