Union Politics at AA

[flaptrack]

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On 9/30/2002 6:43:41 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:

The biggest problem that probably everyone agrees with regarding unions is the sad fact that they are needed in the first place.

This is the 21st century for chrissakes, why must american businesses still be of the frame of mind that employees are a commodity to be used and thrown away at will.
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Very well put , Sir. Why take the richest most prosperous country on the earth, with our culture that for the most part, is the most progressive and achieving and tolerant, and sell it out for quarterly statements.

I have a little question on this. My father, who served in WWII, college educated and a LT in the US Navy (I was born MUCH later) used to defame the union membership in the US in his later life. As soon as the the Japanese started selling cars in the US he bought one. His last car before he passed away was a Mitsubishi, a car from the same company that made the airplane that ripped up the deck of the USS Bonhome Richard (CV-23)and almost killed him in 1945. My question is: Who designed, marketed and did the research studies on these vehicles that were made in the US? His contemporaries! But he always blamed the Unions for putting together such a piece of junk.

Why was he so pissed at union folk just trying to make a living?

 

[RV4]

Gun Control And The AFL-CIO

The National Rifle Association of America is a single-issue organization that represents firearms owners and works to defend and protect their rights as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. In its 125-year history as the nation's oldest civil rights organization, the NRA has never adopted any policy or practice regarding unions, organized labor, labor management or labor relations issues of any kind.

On the other hand, the American Federation of Labor & Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO) have continually stepped outside the purview of labor relations and adopted decidedly anti-gun positions that infringe upon the rights of law-abiding firearms owners.

The national leadership of the AFL-CIO has supported restrictive gun control legislation for nearly a quarter of a century.

1971: The Executive Council of the AFL-CIO adopted a resolution stating, the AFL-CIO strongly urges Congress to enact strong handgun control legislation.
1976: The AFL-CIO announced it's support for legislation which would ban weapons such as the so-called 'Saturday Night Special' from the public domain.

1987: The AFL-CIO's Executive Council issued a resolution in support of a national seven-day waiting period on the purchase of all handguns.

1989: The AFL-CIO came out strongly in support of the Brady Bill and its national waiting period on the purchase of handguns by law-abiding gun owners. AFL-CIO leadership also resolved to support U.S. Sen. Dennis DeConcini's S.747, a bill to ban the importation, domestic manufacture and sale of certain semi-automatic firearms.

1994: Most recently, the AFL-CIO's leadership supported the Clinton Crime Bill and its ban on certain semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns and large-capacity magazines.

 

[RV4]

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On 9/30/2002 811 PM flaptrack wrote:

Why was he so pissed at union folk just trying to make a living?
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[/blockquote]

I do not know your Father. But I would submit that he likely had compassion for the union folk trying to make a living, but had much contempt for the instituion that has stolen the union from its own members and climbed in bed with a political party that would rather handout free cheese than defend our freedoms by funding a strong military. Not to mention the congressional investigations that took place during your Father's prime than uncovered Communist and Anti-American activities within organized labor.

 

[RV4]

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On 9/30/2002 9:29:53 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:

RV4 - you're going waaaaaaaay overboard in an attempt to make a point. Although I know exactly where you're coming from, you're taking an activist role on a message board that isn't really set up to support what you're advocating....

...but getting that point across on these boards is going to require playing some serious hardball which you can't do unless you're a moderator, or have massive amounts of free time on your hands.
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It does not require hard ball to get my opinions across, I simply put forth information and let the readers decide. If they disagree, well they are entitled to their opinion. And a few even jump in the water and let their thoughts be read. Isn't America Great? Thanks to folks like flaptracks Father, we enjoy the ability to discuss these matters in a forum that informs many. The poster flaptrack asked a simple question about his Father's beliefs and I simply offered a possible reason why he had contempt for unions.

I find myself to be pro-union and know why they are needed, yet cannot stand the evolution to non-germane advocacy that they exhibit. What I seek is union protection from an institution that is truly of the member, by the member, and for the member. YES, you should ask What have I been smokin! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/15.gif']

 

[Buck]

Why is it that when the flow of solid information about the relationship of unions to their associations is released, it is way overboard? The free exchange of information is the only way for the people to decide.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Anyone who thinks I'm pro-union is mis-reading me. I recognize the benefit of a well organized labor union (finding one is next to impossible though) but it still pisses me off that corporate america has ripped employees lives apart from a$$hole to appetite creating the need for a union to protect the employee from the employer.

RV4 - you're going waaaaaaaay overboard in an attempt to make a point. Although I know exactly where you're coming from, you're taking an activist role on a message board that isn't really set up to support what you're advocating.

Sure the TWU is a front for the mafia, and of course ALPA is really a PAC with perks and not a union, but getting that point across on these boards is going to require playing some serious hardball which you can't do unless you're a moderator, or have massive amounts of free time on your hands.

 

[FrugalFlyer]

[blockquote]
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On 9/30/2002 9:54:14 PM RV4 wrote:

I find myself to be pro-union and know why they are needed, yet cannot stand the evolution to non-germane advocacy that they exhibit. What I seek is union protection from an institution that is truly of the member, by the member, and for the member. YES, you should ask "What have I been smokin"!
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I myself am divided on the issue of unions. There are some companies where unions are definitely needed, because if they were not there management would be free to impose its own work rules without any regard for the employee, only the bottom line. On the other hand, there are unions that insist on taking on management at all costs, unions that would like to dictate to management how things should be done.

Ideally, there should be a happy medium between the two. A company should know that happy employees are generally more productive employees, which leads to happy customers, and ultimately to a good bottom line.

I myself belong to a union, recently formed. The first time my union negotiated a contract the management was actually quoted at being surprised how well organized this union was and how well thought out their proposals were. Since this is a trade specific union, asking for trade specific benefits, I was pleased with their work, eventhough not all of our proposals were met by management. What displeases me is that there are fringe elements in the union that try at every possible meeting to steer the union off-track with their agendas. An example was to support a group of strikers in a separate industry, all for the principle of union solidarity against the evils of management. This I do not agree with, because I am 99% sure that if my trade group was to go on strike, there would most likely be no support from any other union, as we are small, and trade specific.

But I supposse that all trade unions, even those in aviation, have some positive and negative aspects as well as individuals or groups that push their own 'special interests'.

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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What displeases me is that there are fringe elements in the union that try at every possible meeting to steer the union off-track with their agendas. An example was to support a group of strikers in a separate industry, all for the principle of union solidarity against the evils of management.
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A good example within the TWU is that the mechanics and related contracts are always dependent upon the Fleet Service. Fleet Service in not witin the Craft and Class and yet my pay and benifits are decided by the union that represents both of us.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

RV4, and Buck,
Here's 2 for you'se' guys.

(Buck, you take one, and Dave can take the other.)

why I think the GOP is bad(SU*K's ??
Imagine voting for a party who advocates putting social security IN _ THE _ STOCK _ MARKET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Example of an AFL-CIO union with BALLS
(One of the last great unions in america) (GOD BLESS THEM) !!

70 ships are tied up at piers along the US west coast, and a SH*T LOAD more at anchorage, some with that distinct aroma of perishables ROTTING in -the - warm cal-ifor-nia sun.
GOD BLESS THEM!!!!!!!!
GOD ---- BUSH !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I'm still trying to find out if the ILWU(International longshoreman and warehouse UNION), are still using wooden BASEBALL BATS, or if they've switched over to aluminum ??
GOD BLESS THEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

RV4,
hey dave,
$167,000 a year , for a AFL-CIO (Longhoreman's union) foreman (ex: Crew/chief)
Not too tuff to take, huh ??????? [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']

NH/BB's

 

[Buck]

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Example of an AFL-CIO union with BALLS----------------
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I am glad you are not speaking of the AFL-CIO itself. If the AFL-CIO had any, we would not be at odds today. The time for strong arming canidates is gone. Especially when the Democrats only strong arm Democrats. By the way ( TWU related) What is a Labor Friendly Republican?

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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why I think the GOP is bad(SU*K's ??
Imagine voting for a party who advocates putting social security IN _ THE _ STOCK _ MARKET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I could have imagined putting a small portion of my contributions into the stock market over the years. The government is not there to administer my 401k, so why should they fully control Social Security? I realize the the average person that fund hops, would never acheive any success. With some rules in place, the idea was to gain better returns than Social Security ever has for the individual. But as it has developed, Social Security in a welfare system. An example would be that the monies that are invested into the T-Bills for me, are actually being used for the retirees now or in the near future. I am 42 years old. The idea that I am funding someone else is irratating at most. Ask your Gen-X ers, what they think about funding your retirement? The system as it is today where Democrats and Republicans alike rob the fund to pay for their perks and projects is braod and across the aisle. Social Security is not a Union ism issue. What is my position on RTW?
Prior to the downward spiral of AA who were and are the mainstream customers

 

[RV4]

As the economy slides further into the tank, and less flying is done, and more AA layoffs begin. We will again speak of the longshoremen and their employers actions to settle the dispute.

All we need now is middle east war and $50 a barrel oil, and we should be on brink of depression, which is far worse than recession.

 

[RV4]

I wonder if the outsourced AA engine components are stuck on those ships due to the port lockouts? Specifically, the CF6-80c2A5 Combustor Module that is overhauled in Singapore.

We might be looking at a turntime problem here?