Guest
Hey MIAAMI do you know that the economy lags about 6-9months, so when Bush came to office, the economy was already in the sh=ter.
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Pilots will NOT re-vote
- Thread starter WingNaPrayer
- Start date
Airline Crew Sched
Member
- Apr 16, 2003
- 46
- 0
why do you criticze their right to not revote
first off - I'm not bitter, I just find it ironic that you have the nerve to suggest that the wealthier people are over taxed while your lower income co-workers are taking a big cut in pay to make sure that the company you work for stays afloat. Asking them to agree to being furloughed so that you may stay employed keeping those nice amenities you are so used to while they head to the unemployment line. I think you have forgotten what its like to live pay check to pay check like some of our co-workers have and will now be doing just to keep working. If AA goes belly up it won't matter what your taxes are then.
MiAAmi,
Please know this, I grew up in Miami, my family and I were part of the Cuban Influx in the early 60''s. One thing I did learn from them, is you work hard and harder. You put money away and you make intelligent decisions. You do not expect things to be handed to you. I do not know why you are so angry with me. I think what the company has done is awful and underhanded. But I have been through this before. You are in MiAAmi, you remember Eastern, don''t you. What exactly do you want from the company? No Cuts to pay and no downsizing? Do you have a solution or a you so bitter and angry that you must take it out on your fellow workers?
Please know this, I grew up in Miami, my family and I were part of the Cuban Influx in the early 60''s. One thing I did learn from them, is you work hard and harder. You put money away and you make intelligent decisions. You do not expect things to be handed to you. I do not know why you are so angry with me. I think what the company has done is awful and underhanded. But I have been through this before. You are in MiAAmi, you remember Eastern, don''t you. What exactly do you want from the company? No Cuts to pay and no downsizing? Do you have a solution or a you so bitter and angry that you must take it out on your fellow workers?
Okay, No I do not want anyone to be furloughed. But we have to cut this company down. It is too large, the seats are not being sold. I think we should start from the top down. We are management heavy, that is for sure. Personally I think more than a handful of Supervisors at each base is too much. The taxing of the pilots or anyone had nothing to do with the problem at AA. I was only pointing out WHY they are mostly republicans. I do know and the memory is all too fresh in my mind what it is to do without. I remember having a grocery budget of $15 dollars a week! This was for three people! (lost alot of weight though, great diet!) I have not lost touch. My dad is a retired janitor for goodness sake!
MiAAmi, I just feel you have to look at all sides. NOthing is ever completely black and white. I hope you come out okay in all of this....
MiAAmi, I just feel you have to look at all sides. NOthing is ever completely black and white. I hope you come out okay in all of this....
Guest
I have to agree with you on that, the unions membership needs to live in the present day, not in late 1800''s and early 1900''s when the unions first organized.....thank you, thank you very much
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On 4/23/2003 9:18:49 AM AAStew wrote:
Okay, No I do not want anyone to be furloughed. But we have to cut this company down. It is too large, the seats are not being sold. I think we should start from the top down. We are management heavy, that is for sure. Personally I think more than a handful of Supervisors at each base is too much. The taxing of the pilots or anyone had nothing to do with the problem at AA. I was only pointing out WHY they are mostly republicans. I do know and the memory is all too fresh in my mind what it is to do without. I remember having a grocery budget of $15 dollars a week! This was for three people! (lost alot of weight though, great diet!) I have not lost touch. My dad is a retired janitor for goodness sake!
MiAAmi, I just feel you have to look at all sides. NOthing is ever completely black and white. I hope you come out okay in all of this....
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On 4/23/2003 9:18:49 AM AAStew wrote:
Okay, No I do not want anyone to be furloughed. But we have to cut this company down. It is too large, the seats are not being sold. I think we should start from the top down. We are management heavy, that is for sure. Personally I think more than a handful of Supervisors at each base is too much. The taxing of the pilots or anyone had nothing to do with the problem at AA. I was only pointing out WHY they are mostly republicans. I do know and the memory is all too fresh in my mind what it is to do without. I remember having a grocery budget of $15 dollars a week! This was for three people! (lost alot of weight though, great diet!) I have not lost touch. My dad is a retired janitor for goodness sake!
MiAAmi, I just feel you have to look at all sides. NOthing is ever completely black and white. I hope you come out okay in all of this....
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Thanks! I too wish everyone the best during these bad times. I intend to vote yes again for the T/A. I respect all the no voters and am not trying to sway anyone with their vote. I was with Braniff and know BK. I am voting with the knowledge I have and with my future in mind. I will not vote with angst toward management. "A fish rots from the head down" is what I heard somewhere. Without Carty I feel we have a fighting chance and today it seems, the stockholders agree.
FWIW, ALPA National *does* lean pretty strongly towards the Dems, dunno what the APA line is. Regarding why pilots lean republican compared to most organized labor, consider:
--A large portion of the pilots are ex-military, and officers at that...a group which several studies show to lean rightward.
--Studies show that people with more education tend to lean more republican; most pilots have 4-year degrees or better. Don''t ask me why this is, since most universities are centers of leftist thought.
--As already pointed out, *some* pilots (read: those who''ve been with a major carrier for a while) fall into the upper tax bracketts. Again, this is a group that leans republican. I don''t think it''s that republicans cater strictly to fat cats at the expense of the downtrodden, as certain posters would suggest...rather, they engage in divisive class warfare much, much less than the dems. To hear a lot of dems speak, being well-off is practically a crime to be penalized. For pilots who''ve spent years and years paying their dues before being paid well, this pretty strongly offends their sense of fairness. It''s moreso this philosophy that bothers me than the actual paying of the extra money. Also, keep in mind that before Reagan reformed the system, the upper-income folks paid a *lot* more, up to 70%...under previous presidents it had become a truely socialistic redistributive system. So while pilots might not have a problem paying in a 25-35% brackett, they remember where it''d be if not for the republicans, or at least Reagan.
Finally, for those engaged in bashing the pilots over the $$$ they make, consider:
-I went to college for 4 years, & being from a lower income family it was all off student loans. I have yet to start paying off my $80k in debt.
-Upon graduation, the only flying job one can expect is flight instruction. I did it for a year, grossing something like $7000 last year. I lived on that.
-After building up some significant experience (1600 hrs flight time now), I started flying cargo. This involves flying relatively small single-&-twin engine piston/propeller aircraft with dubious maintenance in the middle of the night. The payoff? About 15k a year. Again, paying the dues.
-The next step is going to a regional airline, I''ll be making this step in 9-12 months. Depending on where you go, expect $20k-30k the first year. Upgrade to captain after a few years, still making $45k at best. To be sure, that''s decent money...but I''ll still be paying $600/month on those student loans.
-Finally, after 10 years or whatever, you make it to a major. Most places you have a probationary year to survive, with lower pay than you were making as a captain at a regional. After 3 or 4 years here, you might start making it into those upper tax bracketts.
The alternative route, and what used to be the main route, is devoting 10 yrs of service to the military. Fly fun/fast equipment, try not to get shot down, get paid so-so, move frequently.
Anyways I doubt this will stop the pilot-bashing, but understand that none of these guys were born making $200k/year, & there''s a lot of us out there still paying our dues in hopes of making some decent money someday.
--Sam
--A large portion of the pilots are ex-military, and officers at that...a group which several studies show to lean rightward.
--Studies show that people with more education tend to lean more republican; most pilots have 4-year degrees or better. Don''t ask me why this is, since most universities are centers of leftist thought.
--As already pointed out, *some* pilots (read: those who''ve been with a major carrier for a while) fall into the upper tax bracketts. Again, this is a group that leans republican. I don''t think it''s that republicans cater strictly to fat cats at the expense of the downtrodden, as certain posters would suggest...rather, they engage in divisive class warfare much, much less than the dems. To hear a lot of dems speak, being well-off is practically a crime to be penalized. For pilots who''ve spent years and years paying their dues before being paid well, this pretty strongly offends their sense of fairness. It''s moreso this philosophy that bothers me than the actual paying of the extra money. Also, keep in mind that before Reagan reformed the system, the upper-income folks paid a *lot* more, up to 70%...under previous presidents it had become a truely socialistic redistributive system. So while pilots might not have a problem paying in a 25-35% brackett, they remember where it''d be if not for the republicans, or at least Reagan.
Finally, for those engaged in bashing the pilots over the $$$ they make, consider:
-I went to college for 4 years, & being from a lower income family it was all off student loans. I have yet to start paying off my $80k in debt.
-Upon graduation, the only flying job one can expect is flight instruction. I did it for a year, grossing something like $7000 last year. I lived on that.
-After building up some significant experience (1600 hrs flight time now), I started flying cargo. This involves flying relatively small single-&-twin engine piston/propeller aircraft with dubious maintenance in the middle of the night. The payoff? About 15k a year. Again, paying the dues.
-The next step is going to a regional airline, I''ll be making this step in 9-12 months. Depending on where you go, expect $20k-30k the first year. Upgrade to captain after a few years, still making $45k at best. To be sure, that''s decent money...but I''ll still be paying $600/month on those student loans.
-Finally, after 10 years or whatever, you make it to a major. Most places you have a probationary year to survive, with lower pay than you were making as a captain at a regional. After 3 or 4 years here, you might start making it into those upper tax bracketts.
The alternative route, and what used to be the main route, is devoting 10 yrs of service to the military. Fly fun/fast equipment, try not to get shot down, get paid so-so, move frequently.
Anyways I doubt this will stop the pilot-bashing, but understand that none of these guys were born making $200k/year, & there''s a lot of us out there still paying our dues in hopes of making some decent money someday.
--Sam
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On 4/23/2003 8:06:56 AM AAStew wrote:
Stewbear,
Read my post. I married for money? I married a guy who was making less money than I was! Do not be so bitter! If you wanted money for God''s Sake why are you a flight attendant? This occupation has historically been a poor paying one. I am not saying everyone should get screwed, but after working for four airlines two which no longer exist, I know better. HIstory repeats itself. Maybe you missed the part where I said we WORKED to get where we are. Wakeup and start accepting responsability for your decisions. If you expected to support a family on a flight attendants salary, yes you can, but it won''t be very afluent. Accept it. Fight for what you still have.
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Oh come on...when that twinkle lit up in his eyes...there was....my Gosh $$$$$$$ Yea it was hard..for awhile...but Jeez..the rewards have been so much better..and you get to call him Captain...and she said "let them eat cake" Give it up...you aren''t gonna find anyone defending the trials and tibulations of someone making 175 grand plus. Oh and by the way..I just took 6 months off...talk about good money mgt...weeeeeeOn 4/23/2003 8:06:56 AM AAStew wrote:
Stewbear,
Read my post. I married for money? I married a guy who was making less money than I was! Do not be so bitter! If you wanted money for God''s Sake why are you a flight attendant? This occupation has historically been a poor paying one. I am not saying everyone should get screwed, but after working for four airlines two which no longer exist, I know better. HIstory repeats itself. Maybe you missed the part where I said we WORKED to get where we are. Wakeup and start accepting responsability for your decisions. If you expected to support a family on a flight attendants salary, yes you can, but it won''t be very afluent. Accept it. Fight for what you still have.
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