UAL could outsource a max of 2600 plus jobs

[xUT]

Too bad.
I had hoped the carnage would be mitigated after the BK.
Good Luck Guys N'Gals!
Hopefully you can ride the tide.
B) xUT

 

[700UW]

http://iam141.org/

 

[T5towbar]

Yeah. Just read this yesterday. Each of the 28 stations came in to WHQ in Chicago to put their proposal for "cost savings" or "adjustments". They have been doing this all week. They can't beat proposals so unrealistically low, it isn't funny.  I haven't heard the results, since communications have been so tight lipped (and rumors haven't even leaked out), but it looks like that the outsourcing of all of these will soon happen. I'm sure that they want to get these vendors up and running before the summer season (to avoid the meltdown in DEN). Form what this is saying, the crappiest of crappiest vendors will be chosen just on cost alone, and not in quality of work. Which is a constant in UA Land.   At least we will be taking over for the vendors in the split operated insourced stations. And some vacancies should be available in the hubs, and the "bump and roll" will be held to a minimum. Historically, not a lot of people will chase their jobs, especially if they will be placed in a situation that is financially unattractive, or whatever. We will see.
 
One thing for certain is that the MBR's and the on-time D:00 will be still at the bottom, and won't increase anytime soon.
We also didn't make enough money this year, and lagging behind DL and AA. This is all part of "Project Quality" and the shareholders will get theirs first.
 
Fish rots from the head, is I can say................

 

[700UW]

Not as bad as expected.
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/13/us-ual-outsourcing-idUSKBN0LH2IB20150213
 
After weeks of negotiation with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, United agreed to keep the jobs of ramp workers and customer service employees at six of these airports in exchange for "contract modifications," the union said Thursday in a post on its website.
 
Before taking effect, the agreement must be approved by a vote of the affected workers, who are located in or near Tulsa; San Antonio; Indianapolis; San Jose, California; Reno, Nevada; and Billings, Montana, the union said.
 

Ramp workers will be outsourced at another six airports, while customer service employees there will retain their jobs, also pending a vote. These airports are in or near Atlanta; Sacramento; St. Louis; Kansas City; Raleigh, North Carolina; and Fort Myers, Florida.
 
"It is truly unfortunate that the gap between vendors proposals and United's contractual costs could not be bridged in all stations," union official Rich Delaney said in the website post.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Not as bad as expected.
 
"contract modifications"

AKA IAM negotiated pay cuts

 

[700UW]

A pay cut is better than a total 100% earning loss and the effected employees will get to vote on it.
 
Did the Non-Union employees at DL get to vote on their 33% reduction in Profit Sharing in 2013?
 
How about those effected employees for DL at CVG, MEM, DTW, ATL, MCO, DFW, TPA, SLC, ANC,  MSP and others get a chance to negotiate and vote on their jobs being cut?

 

[T5towbar]

It will have to be a 2/3 vote for the cuts to pass.
 
2.00 per hour off top scale (from 24.60 now to 22.60)
Loss of 401k match
Flexible scheduling (aka split shifts for FT - if needed)
 
I thought it would be worse. It it almost like the Hawaiian station cuts, except they took more of a dollar cut (19.60)
 
I think more people who can't move and take the system will accept this deal. Unfortunate that it has to come to this, but the rest of the stations couldn't beat the vendors prices.  Now if the AGC's will take a pay cut as well since you have less people to represent and a loss of dollars for the survivors. There will be spots at the newly insourced stations and at some hubs for people who will take the system. We will also see what the Early Out looks like. (It better be more than 20,000 dollars)
 
I'm very mixed on this. It may saved a few jobs, but it sets a dangerous precedent down the line when we have to go into negotiations next year. We will have to fight harder to save everything now. But we will be going into it with a better hand and won't be handicapped like 2013.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and again, the IAM agreed to weak to non-existent scope, the company came along ready to outsourced, and the only way to save the jobs is to agree to pay cuts.

UA will do this over and over again... with a union this weak and the company clearly calling the shots, to argue that there is some gain out of all of this is the height of why the union movement in the US continues to die.

 

[700UW]

The members agreed to it, they voted down the first TA, and ratified the second, they chose the money.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so much for union solidarity.

again, this is the perfect explanation as to why union membership is in a complete downward spin.

The IAM knew full well the risk that would exist if the most senior members voted for money at the expense of scope.

It was discussed on here so many times and for so long you would have to be a pathological liar to deny it.

The IAM allowed senior UA workers to sell scope and this is precisely the result. Lost jobs and the ones that are retained are working for less.

complete strategic failure on the IAM's part.

 

[robbedagain]

and you think MGMT is PERFECT??  Go get a life man    Go get professional help.   You seriously need it.    MGMT crafted that plan  sadly the IAM leadership there at UA accepted it for whatever reason  the members voted for it   All they had to do was shoot it down    But they chose the money instead of reading everything    This is one hell of a hard ass lesson they learn and hopefully wont repeat the next time around    Meanwhile IAM at US secured better deal but you choose to purposely not bring that up

 

[eolesen]

If nothing else, the workers had a say in whether or not they kept 100% of nothing, or 85% of something.

I don't know what the market wages are in all those locations, but this is the argument the TWU has used in reverse a few times: the contract wage is great for TUL, but not so great in NYC. If the situation was the reverse with the IAM contract, then maybe what the membership chose isn't so bad.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and you think MGMT is PERFECT??  Go get a life man    Go get professional help.   You seriously need it.    MGMT crafted that plan  sadly the IAM leadership there at UA accepted it for whatever reason  the members voted for it   All they had to do was shoot it down    But they chose the money instead of reading everything    This is one hell of a hard ass lesson they learn and hopefully wont repeat the next time around    Meanwhile IAM at US secured better deal but you choose to purposely not bring that up

no one said mgmt. is perfect.. .but they are very good at extracting whatever cost savings they can out of labor.

if labor hires unions that allow mgmt. to take advantage of labor as UA"s rampers have done, then it is precisely the IAM and those rampers' faults, not mgmt.

the IAM failed to protect the job of thousands of workers... and this isn't the first or last round.

for you to argue that I need professional help because I point out the failures of your union shows how severely out of touch with reality and wedded to the union you are.

there are a whole lot of other people who can see the world for what it is... I'm sorry that you cannot.

E,
remember that Hawaii is one of the hard hit states.
Wages there should be the highest in the country.

 

[swamt]

At least Ralph Nader took the time to tell UAL how he feels and that he is 100% against any outsourcing.  Where's the unions letters expressing the same?  Oh wait, I forgot, the IAM agreed with the co., never mind...
 
Ralph Nader: Letter To Jeff Smisek, CEO Of United Airlines

 

[WeAAsles]

If nothing else, the workers had a say in whether or not they kept 100% of nothing, or 85% of something.

I don't know what the market wages are in all those locations, but this is the argument the TWU has used in reverse a few times: the contract wage is great for TUL, but not so great in NYC. If the situation was the reverse with the IAM contract, then maybe what the membership chose isn't so bad.

I know and have known many people in my career at AA who are commuting because their stations closed who would have accepted a small paycut in a heartbeat if it had meant they got to stay home. Not everyone has the ability to move their families. Spouse, children, mother and father. Plus the cost of commuting has to be factored in. Every dime of that $2.00 per hour cut would be spent on a crash pad in the new location + the hassle of the commute itself.

The TWU has an ideological difference when it comes to diluting the rates to keep cities open. Plus you have to remember that before the association it was basically the Hub Presidents who controlled the momentum of talks against the company with the "Roll Call" vote. Not that they didn't care about the outstations but the perspective in their heads comes from a different place. 

Going down to $22.00 per hour in most of these cities is still well above the average COL in many of those areas and I think if I lived in one of those places at least I'd appreciate being given the opportunity of choice over having no choice whatsoever.