UAL begins trimdown......

[Barfbag]

United Airlines to lay off 950 pilots
4:27 p.m. 06/23/2008 Provided by


By Kyle Peterson

CHICAGO (Reuters) - UAL Corp (UAUA), parent of United Airlines, said on Monday it plans to lay off 950 pilots as it prepares to cut domestic capacity to offset soaring fuel prices.

"As we reduce the size of our fleet and take actions companywide to enable United to compete in an environment of record fuel prices, we must take the difficult but necessary step to reduce the number of people we have to run our business," the No. 2 U.S. carrier said in a statement.

The latest layoffs involve nearly 15 percent of United's 6,518 pilots. The carrier has said it plans to cut its staff by 1,400 to 1,600 as it aims to reduce domestic capacity by 14 percent in the fourth quarter.

The airline industry has been battered by record high fuel costs, and major carriers are groping for stability through capacity cuts that enable them to run leaner operations and charge higher fares.

A spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, the union that represents United pilots, was not immediately available for comment.

"We continue discussions with ALPA and all of our unions on ways to mitigate involuntary furloughs, and we are working to notify all of our employee groups about furloughs as soon as we know the impact of our capacity reductions," UAL said.

UAL, which has 55,221 employees, lost $537 million in the first quarter and has held merger talks with rivals to try to bolster its competitive position amid rising fuel costs. The carrier recently said, however, that it does not plan to merge with another airline but will enter into a global cooperation with Continental Airlines (CAL) .

UAL's downsizing is consistent with recent steps taken by AMR Corp's (AMR) American Airlines, which said last month it would cut its domestic capacity by 11 percent or 12 percent in the fourth quarter and eliminate more than 1,000 jobs.

In March, Delta Air Lines (DAL), which plans to merge with Northwest Airlines (NWA), said it would cut 2,000 jobs through voluntary retirement and reduce domestic capacity by 10 percent this year.

Shares of UAL fell $1.07, or 14.9 percent, to close at $6.09 on Nasdaq.

 

[AirLUVer]

1. AA has had a higher number of retirees this year due to the downturn in the stockmarket. General rumour from the flight department is that there is no current plan for pilot furloughs due to current and anticipated retirements.

2. Training cycles are going to be increased, as AA will be replacing S80's next year with 737's.

 

[jimntx]

1. Well, that's just wonderful for the pilots. On occasion, however, the airline does need other employees. I'm afraid we can't count on extra retirements due to stock market effect on our 2nd retirement account.

2. Not all that many 73s are being delivered next year. Will they really affect the training cycles that much. I just hope that people understand that those 73s will replace additional MD80s, not the capacity lost in 4th quarter this year.

 

[AirLUVer]

1. Jim the article barfbag was quoting was regarding pilot furloughs at UAUA.

2. If a pilot has never flown an aircraft type, or if it has been more than 18 months, they have to go through a complete training course of more than 3 weeks. Plus IOE of 25 hours before they are allowed to fly the equipment without an instructor. If they have been qualified on the airplane recently, then it is still a 5 day requal course. So yes when there is a large amount of aircraft changes, AA WILL be incurring a lot of training cycles. Figure minimum 10 pilots per aircraft in training just for the S80 retirements.

Back in 2003, it took nearly 12 months or longer to complete the pilot furloughs, because of all of the downgrades. The company has to furlough the most junior pilot regardless of the equipment type, therefore they have to replace those junior pilots before they can furlough them.

 

[jimntx]

True, but at AA, the retirements have already occurred and the retraining, reassigning, bumping, etc. has already started. Do you really think that the delivery of a few 73s next year is going to make that much difference in the disruption already in progress?

 

[kirkpatrick]

Not all that many 73s are being delivered next year.

34, with 36 coming in 2010. I don't have a delivery schedule; maybe someone could chime in with one?

Although the plan appears to be one-for-one replacement of MD80's, the important thing from the FA point of view is that each of these airplanes will require 4 FA's instead of 3. I understand the older 737's will be converted to the new configuration. I've been told that early on all 737's will be staffed with 4 since it would be too hard to keep up with which aircraft are where, and an equipment sub with a new/reconfig could create scheduling havoc.

This doesn't mean all our troubles are over forever, but it is a positive thing, and positive things are getting hard to come by these days.

MK

 

[CubsFanJohn]

34, with 36 coming in 2010. I don't have a delivery schedule; maybe someone could chime in with one?

Although the plan appears to be one-for-one replacement of MD80's, the important thing from the FA point of view is that each of these airplanes will require 4 FA's instead of 3. I understand the older 737's will be converted to the new configuration. I've been told that early on all 737's will be staffed with 4 since it would be too hard to keep up with which aircraft are where, and an equipment sub with a new/reconfig could create scheduling havoc.

This doesn't mean all our troubles are over forever, but it is a positive thing, and positive things are getting hard to come by these days.

MK

I think it was posted here I forget who though that the 1st 3 738's are due in Jan. One question though does this mean the 40 MD80's due to be parked aren't being replaced? If that is the case I say good because the decreased capacity is needed I do feel bad for everyone going thru a hard time.

 

[AirLUVer]

Mark, FWIHH is 2 in January, 2 in February, and 3 per month for rest of the year. And at this time, it is best to assume that the S80's that are removed this fall will NOT be replaced. Unless someone goes out of business and the price of oil drops at least $30-50/Barrel.

 

[jimntx]

One question though does this mean the 40 MD80's due to be parked aren't being replaced? If that is the case I say good because the decreased capacity is needed I do feel bad for everyone going thru a hard time.

That is correct. The new 73s will mean additional S80 groundings. As I understand it, it will be pretty much 1 for 1. When a 73 goes on line, a S80 will go to its final resting place in the desert.

Unless, of course, as AirLuver posted, oil drops below $35/bbl. Then we might start adding destinations not previously served.

 

[AirLUVer]

That is correct. The new 73s will mean additional S80 groundings. As I understand it, it will be pretty much 1 for 1. When a 73 goes on line, a S80 will go to its final resting place in the desert.

Unless, of course, as AirLuver posted, oil drops below $35/bbl. Then we might start adding destinations not previously served.

Jim, I said that oil would need to drop by 30-50 dollars per barrel, meaning from it's current cost of 135 dollars per barrel.

 

[wontflyforfood]

True, but at AA, the retirements have already occurred and the retraining, reassigning, bumping, etc. has already started. Do you really think that the delivery of a few 73s next year is going to make that much difference in the disruption already in progress?

AA retirements happen every month. What do you mean they already occurred?

Not sure what you mean by retraining, reassigning and bumping? None of this has happened. There have been upward movements with new bid awards due to retirements but there has been no reassigning (whatever that is) or bumping (you must mean displacements).

 

[jimntx]

AA retirements happen every month. What do you mean they already occurred?

I am well aware that pilot retirements happen every month--usually 25-30. What we were talking about is the 142 retirements (iirc) at the end of January alone and the over 300 pilot retirements that happpened at AA in the 1st quarter this year. The academy is not set up nor does it have the equipment to retrain that many pilots into a new seat/aircraft without some disruptions in the schedules, as happened.

 

[wontflyforfood]

I am well aware that pilot retirements happen every month--usually 25-30. What we were talking about is the 142 retirements (iirc) at the end of January alone and the over 300 pilot retirements that happpened at AA in the 1st quarter this year. The academy is not set up nor does it have the equipment to retrain that many pilots into a new seat/aircraft without some disruptions in the schedules, as happened.

That is true although 25-30 retirements a month would make junior AA pilots very happy. It's closer to 12-18 but at any time you could see early retirements depending on the stock market and the financial health of AA.