U.S. government, two airlines say open to settling merger fight

[freedom]

You are making stuff up, the East didnt fight the west on anything, you got a sweetheart deal to the west and the East barely got anything.

You were warned by numerous East rampers what would happen if you voted yes, and thats exactly what happened.

You are not a unionist, you are all about yourself, you voted for money without any regard to your coworkers who got laidoff because of your vote.

You never fought the company on anything, and numerous posters can verify that, I know a certain lead in PHX who told me all about you.

This is the same company who said "Fleet Service is not a career", this is the same company who wont negotiate in good faith and reach a fair CBA.

Blow smoke up someone's rear end, you cant lie on here and expect not to be called out.

I'm sorry , why would I feel the need to lie on an anonymous message board ? i mean seriously , what would i have to gain by lying ?

The East didn't fight the West ? you mean we walked hand in hand into the new contract singing and dancing ? No ... those on the East side of the network were not interested in seeing those of us on the West side get better wages within our LIFETIME ...

So we had a drag out , knock down fight where we essentially allied with the Class two cities , the America west field stations and the PHX hub and DRAGGED the membership into the new contract ...

This contract was the will of the membership ... you are speaking to a Victor , remember that .

 

[FWAAA]

AA will give up all its current DCA slots, US will give up all its current LGA and JFK slots and DOJ will be happy

Nope. If the DOJ was concerned about the NYC slots at LGA or JFK, then the DOJ would have mentioned them. But since US+AA would still be a bit player in NYC behind UA, DL and B6, NYC isn't the issue.

But it's not just about DCA slots. It's about the reduction from four legacy competitors plus WN into three plus WN, and no amount of slot divestitures fixes that problem.

I dont think so. DCA probably, not JFK or LGA, that wont happen.

Agreed. If the government wanted NYC slots, it would have mentioned them in the complaint.

But, then the question arises, if the concessions are so draconian that the merger no longer makes financial sense, what has been gained?

Exactly. If you give up so much that the government no longer is worried that you'll substantially lessen competiton, then you've probably given up the very pieces that you were hoping to use against DL and UA. For the pro-merger crowd, that sucks, but those are the cards that US and AA were dealt.

 

[robbedagain]

the east told you to vote no.. i told you back then to vote no bec if it was turned down the company would have had to come back with a better offer... you ignore you are a company boy pathetic you vote for anything just to get that dough and say the he!! with your bros and sis by tossing them down the river...

as for the us govt and the airlines.. it sounds as if the judge in amr ch 11 will approve but the biggie is what concessions will the 2 airlines give up... its gonna be interesting

 

[freedom]

the east told you to vote no.. i told you back then to vote no bec if it was turned down the company would have had to come back with a better offer... you ignore you are a company boy pathetic you vote for anything just to get that dough and say the he!! with your bros and sis by tossing them down the river...

as for the us govt and the airlines.. it sounds as if the judge in amr ch 11 will approve but the biggie is what concessions will the 2 airlines give up... its gonna be interesting

NOPE , the UNION told me to vote yes ... so i voted YES ...

 

[Hope777]

And All the Class II cities on the East voted it in as well,at almost 95% yes. It was the Hubs on the East that threw everyone under the bus long ago, right Robbed? You arent in ABE anymore! PIT and BDL got what they deserved.

 

[700UW]

I'm sorry , why would I feel the need to lie on an anonymous message board ? i mean seriously , what would i have to gain by lying ?

The East didn't fight the West ? you mean we walked hand in hand into the new contract singing and dancing ? No ... those on the East side of the network were not interested in seeing those of us on the West side get better wages within our LIFETIME ...

So we had a drag out , knock down fight where we essentially allied with the Class two cities , the America west field stations and the PHX hub and DRAGGED the membership into the new contract ...

This contract was the will of the membership ... you are speaking to a Victor , remember that .

You are truly ignorant you had West employees on the negotiating committee and the former west employees got a huge raise and the east hardly got anything.

How quickly you forget or are you trying to justify your greed at the expense of others.

Your making crap up again.

 

[robbedagain]

And All the Class II cities on the East voted it in as well,at almost 95% yes. It was the Hubs on the East that threw everyone under the bus long ago, right Robbed? You arent in ABE anymore! PIT and BDL got what they deserved.

BDL and PVD were classified as CLASS 1 cities to get that deal thru hope... and correct i have not been in or near abe in years.. no intentions of going back either... vast majority of the votes if i remember came from the west.. i dont remember which hubs in the east voted yes but i do believe clt and dca shot it down may be phl too

 

[ChockJockey]

How quickly you forget or are you trying to justify your greed at the expense of others.

Wanting to make something closer to a living wage is being greedy? Insisting that a large portion of your work group continue to undersell their own labor by working at express wages for further months or years just so you have a shot at your own marginal improvements sounds kind of greedy to me too.

Most of what I knew about the East and what they thought of us was literally written on the bin walls and apparent in the way they'd spitefully load PHX flights, making our job all the more difficult, and for this privilege we were admonished to vote no and keep them on an elevated pay scale relative to us for an unspecified amount of time. In hindsight, y'all could have used a more effective strategy of persuasion.

I don't agree with most of what freedom posts but it's not accurate to portray him as some evil comic book scoundrel excitedly wringing his hands at the idea of all the people he'd be throwing out on the street because that simply isn't the case. At the end of the day his vote was only one among many, and just so happened to be in the majority. As much as the stalwarts in the East were/are convinced of their complete and total monopoly on the Truth of What Is Good for All™ the fact remains that folks had legitimate and worthwhile reasons for voting the way they did.

 

[700UW]

A union is about the good of everyone, not just one.

And your LL reps and PHX management let them vote on the CBA at work at PHX, no other station was afforded that, as the company knew PHX would vote for money and screw their coworkers.

Karma is a mf, I hope I am wrong, but PHX will see what happens after the merger, it will follow the fate of PIT, LAS, and all the other stations that were outsourced

 

[ChockJockey]

And your LL reps and PHX management let them vote on the CBA at work at PHX, no other station was afforded that, as the company knew PHX would vote for money and screw their coworkers.

Tell us, which laws or bylaws or regulations were violated when this happened and what action was taken to challenge it after the fact? Anything at all, or just whining? I really would like to know.

Karma is a mf, I hope I am wrong, but PHX will see what happens after the merger, it will follow the fate of PIT, LAS, and all the other stations that were outsourced

Yes, I'm sure you hope you're (not your) wrong, because you really don't seem like the kind of guy who likes seeing people get their "just desserts".

But just what is the point and purpose of bringing up these old fights again 700? Is this really what fleet should be focusing on right now?

 

[john john]

If the so called 1000 city pairs are not slot controlled airports, why would he DOJ even care? Any airline could start service between those cities, wouldn't that drop fares? Have those city pairs been made public by the government, I don't recall seeing what cities were effected....

real estate

 

[robbedagain]

what amazes me the most in that statement is that the doj keeps mentioning 1000 city pairs... where is the list of all 1000 city pairs that theyre talking about

 

[FWAAA]

what amazes me the most in that statement is that the doj keeps mentioning 1000 city pairs... where is the list of all 1000 city pairs that theyre talking about

The list of city pairs (about 1000 of them) is appended to the end of the Complaint. You've read the complaint, right? Links to the complaint (in .pdf format) have been posted in various threads since it was filed.

 

[ograc]

I dont think so. DCA probably, not JFK or LGA, that wont happen.

Giving up slots in DCA. The first of many jobs eliminated to get the merger approved. who knows how many jobs will be eliminated if this merger is realized. One thing is certain... it is just the tip of the iceburg. Good luck PHX.

 

[Jester]

Giving up slots in DCA. The first of many jobs eliminated to get the merger approved. who knows how many jobs will be eliminated if this merger is realized. One thing is certain... it is just the tip of the iceburg. Good luck PHX.

Only iceburg most PHX rampers are seeing would be at the Souper Salad on 44th Street and McDowell. Somehow people forget that PHX is still a relatively small hub of a couple hundred daily mainline and express flights versus those in PHL and CLT with twice as many. Now throw in AA operations in LAX and DFW, and PHX really becomes unnecesary. I am already seeing reductions in flying to east coast cities, and some total eliminations.