Twu Vs Amfa

[_AMT_MCI]

SENIORITY RULES...One of the basics...perhaps it is a class in unionism that you need...not another union. Do you really believe that if AMFA gets in @ AA that we'll see any increase in floor involvement? Only change will be the name that gets put on the door and the floor will have to cry about a different name.

I do see why they call AMFA Another Me First Union and why it is promoted so strongly in the south...

There are 2 definates that the Company cannot take away from you...that is Seniority and Qualifications...as I see it you all would like to and have taken the first away from TWA...Seniority.

And what is up with this communism BS? Must be a lack of vocabulary or a lack of facts. Does anyone realize that if you all are so upset with the TWU it falls back onto your lack of involvement with your union...a union is only as strong as it's floor and it seems to me you all are weak as your present contract....PROMOTE unionism...there isn't that much difference in both the TWU and AMFA...autonomy has a lot of benefits if used...imagine using your efforts that you have in organizing AMFA @ AA into the union you have intact, THERE IS POWER. You voted your E-Board and President...empower them with your participation and patronage. You are disgruntled with your own actions and blaming those actions on those elected...CHANGE YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA and get involved in YOUR UNION.

Watch Local 530 for leadership and unionism...

 

[twuer]

(j7915 writes. . .)
RV4, why don't you answer the questions? Give me some idea how AMFA will address the question of outsourcing, higher medical, etc.?

. . .and this is his reponse. . .

First proposal would be to send everyone to training to insure that everyones stops believing the UNION IS SOMETHING ELSE besides themselves.

We are in this position because you and everyone seem to think the union is an institution sperate from the members, and with TWU, this is true.

Once we get AMFA, it is going to be what are "WE" willing to fight for, not what proposal we can send to the "union" and have "them" fix everything.

In other words, there needs to be a fundamental change in the understanding of what "unionism" means, and what each member's responsiblities entail.

That my friend, is the most difficult, and the most important task of all.

Until, you get yourself and others away from the top down dictators that have stolen the supreme authority from us, then we are screwed and can continue to correctly blame "the union".

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH

Answer the question already! Aren't you dizzy yet??? :blink:

 

[RV4]

(from FWAAA toRUM@AA. . .)
No lies, no rhetoric, just some facts.

Take the NO's out of that and you have the AMFA strategy. They only print the truths they want to believe. They will never admit that the TWU got us the ILC.

Get ready for the spins to hit the fan. . .COLOR]

I will admit that the TWU got us the ILC!


Industry Leading Concessions

 

[twuer]

RV4's response:
I will admit that the TWU got us the ILC!

Industry Leading Concessions



Need a new line RV4!

 

[Bob Owens]

You are probably right Bob, but you have to ask your self why. It's probably because those who voted FOR AMFA to begin with are the only ones left there. They got what they wanted and everyone else is looking for another job! AMFA has secured your job if you have 1990 seniorlty. Are you telling all those
unsuspecting union brothers and sisters here in Tulsa, who don't have a that kind of seniority, that if they sign an AMFA card they will more that likely lose their job if AMFA gets voted in?? Somehow I doubt it. AMFA has a history of signing away jobs. Don't tell 'em that either I bet.

(another quote from "Bob")
Imagine if the workers were to find out about the pensions and benifits that these leaders get for themselves in addition to their six figure salaries?

Just curious "Bob", what does Delle make a year??/COLOR]

I dont know how long you have been in this business but layoffs were always a part of it. I can remember in the early 80s when the "junior" JFK guy at UAL had 25 years seniority. They all eventually went back when the economy recovered and the contract did not take the hit that we just took. We went back 50 years.

If Little was so concerned about saving jobs then he should have pushed the Scope clause that Local 562 submitted during the 2001 contract talks. Scope language can protect jobs while maintaining the wage rates.

I dont know what Delle makes and at this point I dont care, I dont pay his salary, I pay Sonnys, and Littles. When I look at the performance they have delivered I think I have every right to be dissatisfied with it as I beleive many others are. While they negotiate concessions and give backs for us they reward themselves with salaries and perks that they would never dream of getting for the members. The question is what recourse do we have? How do we send Little back to the floor to work under the conditions that he, with his signature (without further ratification), put in place? How do we force Harold Hall to retire and live off the spoils he has accumuluated while selling us down the river? Who works for who here? Do we work for them or do they work for us? Apparently they think that we work for them.


If laid off workers are allowed to vote then it stands to reason that they could start a card drive. Why havent they? Many of our laid off workers said that they would rather see the rates be kept up than take the huge cuts. They want something worth coming back to. One such worker stopped by JFK again today and told the guys that he sent in an AMFA card and got several other laid off guys from AA that are working at another outfit to sign cards.

The fact is that Unionism in this industry has to change. The AFL-CIO unions could work together, merge all their ATDs and form a union that could help turn this twenty year decline that all airline workers have suffered through, not just the mechanics, or, let each group do as they have been doing and go their seperate ways- AA Dispatchers, PFAA,AMFA, AGW. The fact is that change is coming, the question is will it be internally driven, utilizing the resources that members have built up over the years or will it be a battle between unionists that will waste time and money?

The sad fact is that those in control, the Sonny Halls and Jim Littles and their ilk dont think that we need change. Why would they? At $200,000/year, free car and a house out in exclusive Sag Harbor and who knows what else how could a bus driver, baggage handler or mechanic complain? Unfortunately only one bus driver, and a handful of the others live that way, all at the expense of all the rest of us. They fall back and claim that its the members fault. "Its the members fault that they believed these self rewarding pied pipers and accepted pay cuts and concessions on a consistant basis"? To them there are only two types of people, those that fall in line and accept their mismanagement of the union(hoping to get a peice of the action themselves) and those who do not. They claim they want involvement from the members but then do everything they can to keep the members out. One only needs to look at the Convention to see how the grand facade of Democracy it put forth. Delegates sit next to alternate delegates while some elderly member of the IAC determines which side yells the loudest to determine the language of our Constitution. Inevitably the side that the chair favors is determined to be the loudest, even when the delegation feels differently. In one vote Sonny said "all for say "Aye", followed by "all against say aye", bam "the ayes have it". When the delegation said which ayes he said "Well if you get up here, then you can decide the day you get here'. Due to the uproar he did do the vote over, but it did not matter, it and every other vote went his way. There is no way to tell with any certainty how any of these voice votes actually went as Sonny used rythm tricks to help alter the volume of the votes. By this I mean that most votes on resolutions that were not controversal went with a pattern of "all for say Aye" and all against say nay". Since it was a voice vote each side would try to yell as loud as possible on the que of either Aye or nay. On those issues that Sonny wanted an aye he would leave out the nay, as in "all against say nay", thus throwing the nay votes out of time and declare the ayes victorious. During the Convention, which took place shortly after 9/11 Sonny's henchman, reportedly a former Communist by the name Rojer Tauss distributed a racist, red baiting flyer that accused Rojer Toussaint, a man with a foriegn accent of being a supporter of Osama Bin Laden. The plan backfired as heroes who took part in the evacuation and later the cleanup of the World Trade Center expressed outrage over being portrayed as Bin Laden supporters. Sonny promised to take action against the author of the flyer. He never did.

In Sonnys world a call for Democratic reform is considered subversive, a threat to his hegemony over the union, the union that exists to provide him a very comfortable existance with offices that would be the envy of an executive from a fortune 500 company.(When I was a kid my father was a chauffuer for Union Carbide, I saw the CEOs office once and it was no fancier than Sonny Halls). "Other unions ask 'do you only have one floor ?"" Sonny remarked as I carefully took in the plush offices that Sonny decided was a necessity for the union -($900000/year rent for his offices as we give back $1.6 billion in concessions). That comes out to $9 from each and every member so Sonnys Grandkids can get a good birdseye veiw of the Thanksgiving Day parade down Broadway. Thats not fair, you can take your kids there too. Remember 1700 Broadway, 2nd floor. But you wont be able to bring them there because YOU will be working, working for four hours pay(part of the $1.6 billion in concessions) as Sonny watches the Parade. Is that a good use of our dues? Sonny apparently believes that the visual impression of a unions excesses is more important than having a powerful union that can and will cease production in order to protect wages and benifits.

In Sonnys world "Reform" is an assualt on all that he believes the TWU stands for-Sonny Hall. "How dare the members think that the union should help improve living standards, they dont need things like sick time and vacation, the TWU needs more members so they can pay the rent and International salaries and bennies.

As far as AMFAs history of signing away jobs I have to ask has it surpassed our rate when it comes to A&P mechanics? Lets see, R&D, Deicing, SRPs, Tanks R us, Matsushita, how many thousands of high paying A&P jobs were lost shifting the work to lower paying classifications? How many workers were denied the ability to improve their situation because of these lost A&P jobs? Oh, but its OK that overall wages went down and the opportunity for advancement was denied because after all these are all still TWU jobs and thats all that matters right? As long as they are paying dues nothing else matters.

Since when did the Constutution say that the goal of the organization was to secure as many dues payers as possible even at the expense of Article II? In Sonny's world it does not matter what the Constitution says.

 

[RV4]

RV4's response:
I will admit that the TWU got us the ILC!

Industry Leading Concessions



Need a new line RV4!

THAT ONE DOES KINDA STING DOESN'T IT?

 

[RV4]

TWUer

Here's a new line...

INDUSTRY LEADING CONCESSIONS FOR JOBS PROGRAM,

SACRIFICE YOUR PAY AND :censored: TODAY.

 

[jake]

Bob Owens (Curly),
That was a completely impressive dissertation of pure ignorance! I’ve been a mechanic for over 20 years and this is NOT the industry of old, no matter how much you’d like it to be. The jobs lost at NWA and United are likely gone forever, even your AMFA brethren agree. You guys sell the crap that “it’ll be here for you when you return”, BOLOGNA! You’re flat lying to people to get cards signed. The scope clause that you refer to was, in fact, pushed to the very last day by Bobby Gless and Jim Little but we could not take it to impasse. The problem with it was we could not strike over bringing all AMR affiliates under the same umbrella.
It is simply another lie that our International officers can’t be recalled. The simple fact is that ALL International officers are subject to the provisions of Article IX of the constitution. Also, their benefits and pay are set by the Constitution, by the members at the convention. And stop crying about the “without further ratification” thing. Your position has been beat to death, we all know you don’t agree but you’d think one would be smart enough to figure it out by now….the court said……YOU ARE WRONG! And the TWU WAS RIGHT!!
I HIGHLY DOUBT that many of the laid off 5000 at NWA are thanking AMFA for sending them to the street! I MEAN WHO NEEDS A JOB, RIGHT? It’s funny you mention the PFAA, AGW and AMFA! They are all associated with a group (AMFA) who testified before the NMB because they didn’t want to represent anyone but mechanics. Don’t tell me...I’LL GUESS,…they all approached AMFA, right? Yea right! Your story changes daily. It looks like AMFA is trying to get as many dues payers as possible! Is the “grand façade”(as you put it) similar to why Delle was sued by Local 33? Now that’s democracy in action. The members vote and the dictator says…THAT VOTE IS “NULL AND VOID”! Is that what you mean by democracy?
I agree with you Bob, there are two types of people. Only it’s those who throw crap on the wall just to see what sticks and those of us who have to wade through your crap to search for the truth! As far as AMFA signing away jobs, the proof is in the 10,000 or so that are on the street between United and NWA. And don’t even pretend that AMFA had nothing to do with the United situation, because if you do it’ll just be another lie, you know it and so do I!
Let’s talk about what you guys call farming out “in house”. I didn’t see any of the 600 mechanics that were laid off here, refuse to come back to work because they thought the SRP was a bad thing. Sure, now you and your boys can sell your bag of goods, you can’t find an AMFA guy that will admit to voting for the ’95 agreement. But the fact is, people then were concerned about job security. How many of those guys do you see on the street today? For that matter, how many of AA’s layoffs occurred because we farmed out their work? How many licensed mechanics, that hired in as SRP’s have not improved their position? I didn’t see any saying thanks but, no thanks. They flocked in because they new there was an opportunity. Did theTWU want to protect those people? DARN RIGHT, and minimal numbers hit the street. You call SRP/OSM’s farming out “in house”? What you fail to say is, every other carrier farms that work to an outside vendor for less money. AMFA can say, “we’d make you all mechanics”, but the fact is, they don’t represent any un-licensed “mechanics”, once again, their work is farmed out. Care to compare that with AMFA’s performance? They represent airlines with the highest farm out rate and the highest lay off rate in the industry! Great record! Now NWA has asked the AMFA boys for 173.3 million in concessions and AMFA has hired a financial group to review the need. Their position has gone from “NO CONCESSIONS” to “NO UNWARRANTED CONCESSIONS” basically over night. What happened? Did the TWU do the right thing after all? If not, why is AMFA attempting the same strategy.

 

[Jim Martin]

Maybe I've missed it but, what exactly has the TWU done for me? Saved my job, at what cost? AMFA is going to happen because people want acountability. TWU has 0 acountability. If you go against the grain in the TWU you are removed, what is that? Tell me why the only kickback negotiated in this deal is vacation. I guess I can't understand why the TWU is a choice in anyones mind. It wasn't long ago I thought they were the answer but not after those consessions. What other industry takes money away from there employees in order to be profitable. I know they may freeze wages for awhile but not take away all the things AA and the TWU did. And make no mistake about the vote, it didn't matter how the members voted, it was going to pass. We need acountibilty.

Have a nice day

 

[Larry Costanza]

(from FWAAA toRUM@AA. . .)
No lies, no rhetoric, just some facts.

Take the NO's out of that and you have the AMFA strategy. They only print the truths they want to believe. They will never admit that the TWU got us the ILC. But because sacrifices were needed (by all the employees not just TWU-M&R) to save the company from going bankrupt they put every spin imaginable on it to look as if the TWU did something completely out of the question. I would venture to guess that the AMFA supporters on these boards have the seniority needed to save their jobs. Do you think they are telling the union brothers and sisters in TUL, who don't have the seniority, that if they sign an AMFA card they will more than likely lose their jobs if AMFA gets voted in? I doubt it. Or that AMFA has a history of bargaining away jobs instead of fighting to keep them? Doubt that too.

I was (am still am) very proud of my "union" (members) for taking the stance that they took. AA will bounce back. It might not came soon enough for some, but you can't blame the union for that. Although AMFA will blame the TWU for everything!! We will get back what we sacrificed and more with the help of the TWU (and ourselves) not AMFA! A union is only as strong as its' members. It was these members who saved the company. Not because "we were in bed with them" (a famous AMFA boy quote) but because we believe what was done was the right thing. AA is a great company to work for. The TWU just makes it better!

]

You say that a union is only as stong as its members. I agree with you wholeheartedly. But, do you think the members have any strength if their International officers are removing locally elected officials on false pretense. This is not a stong membership. When the memberships locally elected Presidents and officers are removed from office for carrying out that memberships wishes. Where is the strength in membership?Are we to be bullied by the International dictatorship and not allowed our voices to be heard? We strive to be strong members but are dictated to by International officers to Shut Up! and take our concessions, and live with them and should you oppose them we will make your lives miserable. Is this what a union is supposed to do for their dues paying members? Somehow I don't think so. Something is terribly wrong with the TWU's way of thinking. A union is supposed to be for their members not against them. They are supposed to be fighting for better wages and benifits and working conditions. Do you really see that happening with the TWU? I don't!

 

[Larry Costanza]

SENIORITY RULES...One of the basics...perhaps it is a class in unionism that you need...not another union. Do you really believe that if AMFA gets in @ AA that we'll see any increase in floor involvement? Only change will be the name that gets put on the door and the floor will have to cry about a different name.

I do see why they call AMFA Another Me First Union and why it is promoted so strongly in the south...

There are 2 definates that the Company cannot take away from you...that is Seniority and Qualifications...as I see it you all would like to and have taken the first away from TWA...Seniority.

And what is up with this communism BS? Must be a lack of vocabulary or a lack of facts. Does anyone realize that if you all are so upset with the TWU it falls back onto your lack of involvement with your union...a union is only as strong as it's floor and it seems to me you all are weak as your present contract....PROMOTE unionism...there isn't that much difference in both the TWU and AMFA...autonomy has a lot of benefits if used...imagine using your efforts that you have in organizing AMFA @ AA into the union you have intact, THERE IS POWER. You voted your E-Board and President...empower them with your participation and patronage. You are disgruntled with your own actions and blaming those actions on those elected...CHANGE YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA and get involved in YOUR UNION.

Watch Local 530 for leadership and unionism...

We are upset with the TWU you can bet on that and it does not fall back on the lack of involvement from its membership. We are involved. Look at what happens when the membership backs their locally elected officers. The officers get persecuted by Sonny hall and Jim Littles dictatorship and are suspended from office. Why? because the membership got involved! You have got to come up with something better than that. I personally got involved and was vice chairman in SAN for three years and I found something out that should not be a revelation to any poor person that has to have money extorted from them every month from the great TWU. You cannot and will not change anything from a local level and if you do try their will be hell to pay and the international will silence you. Right or wrong. Their is no strength in our membership because that is what the international wants by design. Ultimate dictatorship. You will do as I say.

 

[_AMT_MCI]

Larry...if what you say is true, and I do believe you sir....then change must happen...and it has to start at floor level with floor participation reaching levels seen in the 60's and 70's. Yes times have changed I agree there also...but the only way to fight is in numbers and involvement. I remain firm in my decision to support my friends @ MCI and attempt to light a fire in unionism. I have read pros and cons of the TWU and AMFA till I feel I've overloaded. Would I see changes if AMFA prevails? Bet not without a change of participation. Practicing Unionism is what is lacking at every local as I see it.

 

[RUM@AA]

Odd...From my home, I am able to see manyaircraft flying over, and on Memorial Day, I noticed that there were Southwest, United, and Northwest (all AMFA represented airlines) flying over, along with the American Airlines aircraft (represented by those Communist dictators at the TWU). Are you inferring that at AMFA represented airlines, maintenance gets a day off on national holidays? What about the planes that have a mechanical problem on the day when the rest of the county (except for retail, transportation, public safety, grocery, and various other industries) is honoring our fallen military heros?

Uhhh...I believe its called OVERTIME at the other airlines. Or do you forget what double time and a half on HOLIDAYS used to be?
I figured you for a dumbass, but WOW you're really lost aren't you?
And I'll bet those airlines don't work their overhaul mechanics on those holidays. Line maint. always worked those holidays for OVERTIME
WAKE UP!!!

 

[RUM@AA]

And those AMT's that were downsized at NWA are proudly flipping burgers, knowing that when that 50 year old mechanic retires in 15 years, he'll get right back in to full pay and benefits, although he'll only be two years away from retirement himself. The AMFA strategy sounds GREAT for those at the top of the seniority list. I'm real curious to find out what the guys on the low to mid levels of the senority list feel.

The AMFA strategy? You just can't get it through your thick skull that the company lays off employees, not the union! What about all the pilots and flight attendants that got laid off? AMFA's fault too?
Do you have any idea how business works? The idea of business is to profit. The idea of unions is to advance and protect PAY AND BENIFITS! Not surrender them for jobs "without further ratification".
How 'bout if we all just take minimum wage and call everyone back and even hire a few thousand more? Is that unionism to you?
What will you do if the company comes back for more consessions and Sonny and Jim surrender them for your own good? Without further ratification. :angry:
Do you think you'll ever stand up for what's right?

Just remember, one day, if your damn lucky it'll be you on the top of the seniority list. How will you really feel about having pay and benifits TAKEN from you to save the job of a relatively new hire? Be honest.

Oh wait. I just realized, you're the one who claims to just be an interested onlooker. Not an employee. Is that right? Well if so, and I know that's B.S., as they say in England...Sod off :down:

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob Owens (Curly),
That was a completely impressive dissertation of pure ignorance! I’ve been a mechanic for over 20 years and this is NOT the industry of old, no matter how much you’d like it to be. The jobs lost at NWA and United are likely gone forever, even your AMFA brethren agree. You guys sell the crap that “it’ll be here for you when you returnâ€, BOLOGNA! You’re flat lying to people to get cards signed. The scope clause that you refer to was, in fact, pushed to the very last day by Bobby Gless and Jim Little but we could not take it to impasse. The problem with it was we could not strike over bringing all AMR affiliates under the same umbrella.
It is simply another lie that our International officers can’t be recalled. The simple fact is that ALL International officers are subject to the provisions of Article IX of the constitution. Also, their benefits and pay are set by the Constitution, by the members at the convention. And stop crying about the “without further ratification†thing. Your position has been beat to death, we all know you don’t agree but you’d think one would be smart enough to figure it out by now….the court said……YOU ARE WRONG! And the TWU WAS RIGHT!!
I HIGHLY DOUBT that many of the laid off 5000 at NWA are thanking AMFA for sending them to the street! I MEAN WHO NEEDS A JOB, RIGHT? It’s funny you mention the PFAA, AGW and AMFA! They are all associated with a group (AMFA) who testified before the NMB because they didn’t want to represent anyone but mechanics. Don’t tell me...I’LL GUESS,…they all approached AMFA, right? Yea right! Your story changes daily. It looks like AMFA is trying to get as many dues payers as possible! Is the “grand façadeâ€(as you put it) similar to why Delle was sued by Local 33? Now that’s democracy in action. The members vote and the dictator says…THAT VOTE IS “NULL AND VOIDâ€! Is that what you mean by democracy?
I agree with you Bob, there are two types of people. Only it’s those who throw crap on the wall just to see what sticks and those of us who have to wade through your crap to search for the truth! As far as AMFA signing away jobs, the proof is in the 10,000 or so that are on the street between United and NWA. And don’t even pretend that AMFA had nothing to do with the United situation, because if you do it’ll just be another lie, you know it and so do I!
Let’s talk about what you guys call farming out “in houseâ€. I didn’t see any of the 600 mechanics that were laid off here, refuse to come back to work because they thought the SRP was a bad thing. Sure, now you and your boys can sell your bag of goods, you can’t find an AMFA guy that will admit to voting for the ’95 agreement. But the fact is, people then were concerned about job security. How many of those guys do you see on the street today? For that matter, how many of AA’s layoffs occurred because we farmed out their work? How many licensed mechanics, that hired in as SRP’s have not improved their position? I didn’t see any saying thanks but, no thanks. They flocked in because they new there was an opportunity. Did theTWU want to protect those people? DARN RIGHT, and minimal numbers hit the street. You call SRP/OSM’s farming out “in houseâ€? What you fail to say is, every other carrier farms that work to an outside vendor for less money. AMFA can say, “we’d make you all mechanicsâ€, but the fact is, they don’t represent any un-licensed “mechanicsâ€, once again, their work is farmed out. Care to compare that with AMFA’s performance? They represent airlines with the highest farm out rate and the highest lay off rate in the industry! Great record! Now NWA has asked the AMFA boys for 173.3 million in concessions and AMFA has hired a financial group to review the need. Their position has gone from “NO CONCESSIONS†to “NO UNWARRANTED CONCESSIONS†basically over night. What happened? Did the TWU do the right thing after all? If not, why is AMFA attempting the same strategy.

Jake;
Glad to see that you are impressed by what you consider to be ignorance.

The fact is that one thing has not changed. When the economy slows down there will be a surplus of labor. Normally these downturns are of limited duration and when things are bad many assume that they will stay that way.

Jake I have a question for you. Are you an officer in the Union or a rank and file worker?

As far as the scope clause being pushed to the last day that was not what we were told, we were told that it was killed off early.

Tell me how members can initiate a recall of International officers or appointed reps.

The court said that the International had the authority to put agreements in place without allowing the members to vote on it. I personally think that its wrong to allow unaccountable leaders to determine our working conditions. The courts decision probably was made under the assumption that those making the decisions would somehow be held accountable through democratic means by the membership. The fact is that the mechanics can not remove Jim Littles authority over our agreement.

I also mentioned the AA dispatchers, in fact I mentioned them first but you completely ignored them, why? The fact is that Airline workers have gone through two decades of concessions and they have had enough. Airline workers across the industry are initiating change because the leaders of the unions, who enjoy high salaries and other perks refuse to do so.


You automaticaly associate criticism as AMFA support. Did you ever consider that there may be other motives? Why are you so commited to maintain the status quo, even after two decades of decline do you still not see that change is needed? You started off by saying that "this is NOT the industry of old". In a way you are right. The industry has changed, but the structure of unionism has not. That structure has been completely ineffective at maintaining the gains made by earlier workers, never mind making gains.The only ones that benifit from the current structure are those who hold positions in the union that give them pay and benifits that the members will never get. I was at the Constitutional Convention, I dont remember an in depth resolution concerning International officers benifits or salaries, if you could, please post that information? I do recall that at the COPE convention Roger Tauss's head looked like it was going to pop off at the thought of some new bill requiring more detailed reporting by labor organizations becoming law.

Its funny how some people will say that the UAL situation is all AMFAs fault yet then go on to say that when AMFA raised the bar to $36/hr that AMFA should not get credit for that. How some are quick to point out that SWAs contract was negotiated by the IBT but leave out the fact that the foreign maint that NWA uses was put in place under the IAM. Who is throwing crap on the wall? You know that if the mechanics at UAL had voted yes that UAL still would have gone BK and that more than likely the end result would have been the same, early concessions at USAIR did not stop this exact same thing from happening there.

Can you find anyone who admitted to voting for the 95 contract? AA has no reason to farm out work when they get to pay low wages in house. But is that our goal? To continue to work for less and less to keep the work or should we go for language and use the threat of a strike to keep the work? "The Tulsa guys would never strike" (thats what Koziatek told me)? Well then if they are not willing to strike then there should be no problem in making the differential between OH and the line greater. The line is willing to fight.

There is no doubt that our Industry Leading Concessions will put pressure on other workers to do the same. Lets face it even Jim Little admits that our concessions were "more than adequate". We went way beyond everyone else without going bankrupt. How is it that we gave up more without going Bk than other carriers did after going BK? If we as a group are going to play it so close to the wire in order to save jobs then consideration should be made for those who live in high cost areas. Instead what we see is where a majority. who live in low cost areas insist that those of us who really keep the airline going, who do the jobs that are least likely to be farmed out, who work where the company makes its money, live under harsh conditions to maintain their relatively comfortable lifestyles. In fact we even see them trying to take away the small premiums that those who work under the harshest conditions of all, night shift, recieve. The added Holidays will be of little benifit to those of us involved in the 24/7/365 day operation. Is that your idea of Solidarity? "I got mine at your expense, Brother".