The AMFA strategy? You just can't get it through your thick skull that the company lays off employees, not the union! What about all the pilots and flight attendants that got laid off? AMFA's fault too?
Your right...anything negative is ALWAYS the company. I tend to believe what many of the other posters say...those jobs that are lost are lost for good...there will be NOTHING for them to come back to. What about the 38% at NWA who can be laid off so that the company can outsource...Company is the party at fault, right? Even though it's in the contract that was drafted by the AMFA which allowed them to do it.
The point you've missed is that NWA pre AMFA had NO OUTSOURCE LIMIT in their contract. So, post AMFA, now that there is a limit, that is the cause of outsourcing? That makes no sense. Pre AMFA the limit was 100%, why didn't the company just outsource 100%?
It's the business climate, not the contract language. Get it?
Do you have any idea how business works? The idea of business is to profit. The idea of unions is to advance and protect PAY AND BENIFITS! Not surrender them for jobs "without further ratification".
I believe I have a better grip on how business works than you do. And you're living in a dream world if you fail to recognize that the AMFA, like the TWU and like American Airlines are, first and foremost, a BUSINESS. Many claim that the TWU is only concerned about dues. If you don't think that AMFA is also concerned about dues, and how they will maintain their "income" with fewer employees, then you are in for a big surprise
Wait a minute. First its AMFA laid off 50% of its members at NWA. Now their only concerned about dues. Which is it? If they were only concerned about dues they surly would have surrendered pay and benifits to save jobs. You can't have it both ways.
How 'bout if we all just take minimum wage and call everyone back and even hire a few thousand more? Is that unionism to you?
As nice as it is to talk about how unions protect wages and benefits, the days of the "sweat shop" are long gone. The pay and benefits for mechanics, even after concessions, is at a rate that is VERY attractive to some. That's called the "free market" - Would you stay if the airline paid you minimum wage? If so, you are a fool. The company will pay what the market will bear - with or without a union. And don't interpret this as me saying "you're overpaid". You're not. Cuts aren't fun, but getting laid off is even less fun. And I believe that the biggest flaw in this "AMFA will save everyone" thought is that you all assume that there will be jobs to return to. The number of jobs to return to would be minimal, IMHO.
No, AMFA won't save everyone, and I don't know where you get that. Of all the things AMFA may or may not be, the main point is they are not the TWU. Pilots have their own union, Flight Attendants have their own union, Mechanics should have thier own union. PERIOD. Skilled Mechanics are sick and tired of supplementing the pay of unskilled baggage handlers and stock clerks. Did you know that AA offered to outsource a large percentage of Fleet Service to save the pay and benifits of Mechanics, and the TWU said NO WAY! Because they are the majority. And because fleet service is the majority they get what they want. I don't have a problem with them getting the most they can, as long as it is not at the expense of my profession.
What will you do if the company comes back for more consessions and Sonny and Jim surrender them for your own good? Without further ratification.
Do you think you'll ever stand up for what's right?
My friend, I have stood up more times than you...when I felt the company was screwing me over...I left. I found employment elsewhere with a pay increase. I did not stick around and #### and moan because somebody else was giving away my pay and benefits.
Do we know each other? We're not friends and you have no idea what I've endured in my lifetime just as I don't know or care about you or yours.
I can't go find employment elsewhere because I'm an AMT. And this cancer called industrial unionism is destroying my profession. Anywhere I go, this problem will follow, unless people like me stand and fight and stop it now.
Just remember, one day, if your damn lucky it'll be you on the top of the seniority list. How will you really feel about having pay and benifits TAKEN from you to save the job of a relatively new hire? Be honest.
As I am not in a union, I do not concern myself with my "seniority".
When you earn your living with your muscles as well as your intellect, younger stronger applicants become very appealing to your employer. Seniority is what keeps us employed and keeps us from being laid off just because were not as limber or strong as we used to be. Fix airplanes for 25 years and you'll damn sure wear out your back, knees and just about every other joint in your body. This is after all, why we unionize. Because we can't trust our employer to do right by us after all those years.
Oh wait. I just realized, you're the one who claims to just be an interested onlooker. Not an employee. Is that right? Well if so, and I know that's B.S., as they say in England...Sod off
You're right, I'm not an employee. I am viewing things from what I like to refer to as the "real world"... a world where a lot of folks would really think that they struck gold if they had even the REDUCED pay and benefits of an AA mechanic.
Even with 25 years experience in the industry? 18 years with one company? So if their are "a lot of folks" that would do my job for $10 and hour, thats what I should be happy to get?
The bottom line is that some companies are getting unlicensed mechanics, car mechanics, truck mechanics, boat mechanics etc. to fix aircraft and paying them truck and car mechanic wages and that's real attractive to the airlines who outsource the work to them. But is that what you want to fly on? Do you feel safe knowing that the planes you're flying on were fixed by unlicensed mechanics?
and I must comment on this:
Uhhh...I believe its called OVERTIME at the other airlines. Or do you forget what double time and a half on HOLIDAYS used to be?
I figured you for a dumbass, but WOW you're really lost aren't you?
And I'll bet those airlines don't work their overhaul mechanics on those holidays. Line maint. always worked those holidays for OVERTIME
WAKE UP!!!
You only picked up on the overtime part, and conveniently overlooked the OTHER industries I cited, where the employees used to have the day off, but now work on holidays and Sundays at straight time. Just trying to point that out as you tried your flag waving "God Bless America" style of post to drive your point home. Or are those who work in other industries and had to work straight time on Memorial day not true Americans? Finally - as far as the name calling (which in my book usually indicates a last resort from the losing side of a debate), I can only say that it takes one to know one.
I'm not talking about other industries. I don't care about other industries. This an AIRLINE forum. We're talking about airlines. It would be ok with me if the whole country shut down for Memorial Day.
The airlines have always been a sort of extension of the military. Many, Many ,Many of the pilots and mechanics at the airlines have a military background and for us to be FORCED, "without further ratification", to work straight time, on our military's most sacred national holiday is UNACCEPTABLE. And rest assured, you'll never hear me appologize for waving the flag. Maybe you have a problem with it, but I don't.
As far as winning or losing the debate, that is decided by the other viewers of the forum, not you or me.