No, I believe my response was why change unions if they aint got the guts to strike with the mechanics. Sure we can argue that a judge would of put them back to work, but the bottom line was the vote to strike was rejected. Simply put, if you're not willing to act as unionist, changing unions will not help. Now if given the choice of the 3, the twu would be a distant 3rd, one step above non-union.
Twu Spreading Lies At To Nwa F/a's
- Thread starter AMFAMAN
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PlayTheOdds
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Wings, I am sorry to say but under the current circumstances that you describe it is a "no-brainer" to tell the TWU to take a hike. If the people you are debating can't see this then they are simply blind fools that have no clue. I am a very common-sense kind of guy and have no sympathy at all for blatant ignorance.
local 12 proud
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Probably the best advice you have given to date! of course it goes without saying that advice from a SCAB is like asking a drunk how much is too much!
Wings,
TWU Constitution
http://www.twu565.org/bulletinboard/const_2001.pdf
The Intl officers are selected by those at the convention every four years at the booze and prostitute fest in Las Vegas. It is just a formality to a pre-determined result. If you read "Mike Quill-Himself" written by his widow, she goes into details about the convention and how it's a joke. Don't ever expect to get an unedited copy of the convention minutes or even an edited copy for that matter. Happy reading
TWU Constitution
http://www.twu565.org/bulletinboard/const_2001.pdf
The Intl officers are selected by those at the convention every four years at the booze and prostitute fest in Las Vegas. It is just a formality to a pre-determined result. If you read "Mike Quill-Himself" written by his widow, she goes into details about the convention and how it's a joke. Don't ever expect to get an unedited copy of the convention minutes or even an edited copy for that matter. Happy reading
TWU informer
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Whats this?
Kirk the Felon Wells organizing NWA Flight Attendants?
We must attend the informational meetings they will have and blast the idiots.
Kirk the Felon Wells organizing NWA Flight Attendants?
We must attend the informational meetings they will have and blast the idiots.
Reply to Wings post;
I have one other request .... the TWU does not have their constitution or bylaws posted at www.twu.org.
I see that someone has already given you a link. You can also get Union Constitutions from the DOL.
You and others have said that officers at the international level are appointed for life. Do you still have a copy of TWU's constitution? If so, could you post the section and language in the constitution that states that these officers are appointed for life?
For the most part officers are not appointed (however Obrien was apointed to the position of President following Sonny Halls retirement) but reps and directors are. Reps and directors have a lot of power. At AA/twu all contractual issues brought forward by the Locals are subordinate to the directives of the ATD Director Jim Little and his subordinate reps. None of these people are elected to those positions by anyone from AA. They are appointed by the President of the TWU, who is also not elected by the members. The fact is that Local 100, Transit workers from NYC have more of a say as to who controls our contract than we do. While officers are "elected" the process is not one that we as Americans would consider to be a legitimate Democracy, in fact its nearly identical to the process in the former USSRs Politboro. Stalin always claimed that he was elected, so did Hitler and Mussolini and going by the TWU standard, they were. Members can not participate nor are they privy to the process where top officers are elected to the head of the TWU.
It seems that whenever this fact is mentioned in our debate over here, some supporters of the TWU say it is not true.
Well like I just said, Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini all claimed that they were elected too. The TWU is very similar in many ways to those regimes.
If we had the actual language to post - it would definitely be hard to dispute. And it sure seems odd that TWU wants our dues but we have no way of reading their constitution or bylaws anywhere on their website or in their literature. Some have suggested that we call TWU and ASK for the information .... I figure if they aren't willing to post it for all to see on the TWU website, I'm not too impressed with the organization at this point!
They are reluctant to put things in writing because then people have documented proof of their lies. I think I already covered why the TWU wants your dues-to maintain their exhorbatant compensation and pension plans. Pat Friend makes around $105,000/year, the President of the TWU makes over $200,000, in fact the Secretary for the President of the TWU makes more than the President of the AFA. The only way the TWU can maintian the compensation packages they have for themselves is to get more dues payers.
Thanks again for your time ....
No problem, willing to help after all "In Injury to one is an injury to all". By the way if you need clarification on the Constitution get the TWU's answer then ask us, in many cases we can get you proof that how they tell you they interpret the Constitution is a lie and prove it through court documents. In fact the TWU went to court to try and prevent me from posting excerpts from depositions taken from TWU officials.
I have one other request .... the TWU does not have their constitution or bylaws posted at www.twu.org.
I see that someone has already given you a link. You can also get Union Constitutions from the DOL.
You and others have said that officers at the international level are appointed for life. Do you still have a copy of TWU's constitution? If so, could you post the section and language in the constitution that states that these officers are appointed for life?
For the most part officers are not appointed (however Obrien was apointed to the position of President following Sonny Halls retirement) but reps and directors are. Reps and directors have a lot of power. At AA/twu all contractual issues brought forward by the Locals are subordinate to the directives of the ATD Director Jim Little and his subordinate reps. None of these people are elected to those positions by anyone from AA. They are appointed by the President of the TWU, who is also not elected by the members. The fact is that Local 100, Transit workers from NYC have more of a say as to who controls our contract than we do. While officers are "elected" the process is not one that we as Americans would consider to be a legitimate Democracy, in fact its nearly identical to the process in the former USSRs Politboro. Stalin always claimed that he was elected, so did Hitler and Mussolini and going by the TWU standard, they were. Members can not participate nor are they privy to the process where top officers are elected to the head of the TWU.
It seems that whenever this fact is mentioned in our debate over here, some supporters of the TWU say it is not true.
Well like I just said, Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini all claimed that they were elected too. The TWU is very similar in many ways to those regimes.
If we had the actual language to post - it would definitely be hard to dispute. And it sure seems odd that TWU wants our dues but we have no way of reading their constitution or bylaws anywhere on their website or in their literature. Some have suggested that we call TWU and ASK for the information .... I figure if they aren't willing to post it for all to see on the TWU website, I'm not too impressed with the organization at this point!
They are reluctant to put things in writing because then people have documented proof of their lies. I think I already covered why the TWU wants your dues-to maintain their exhorbatant compensation and pension plans. Pat Friend makes around $105,000/year, the President of the TWU makes over $200,000, in fact the Secretary for the President of the TWU makes more than the President of the AFA. The only way the TWU can maintian the compensation packages they have for themselves is to get more dues payers.
Thanks again for your time ....
No problem, willing to help after all "In Injury to one is an injury to all". By the way if you need clarification on the Constitution get the TWU's answer then ask us, in many cases we can get you proof that how they tell you they interpret the Constitution is a lie and prove it through court documents. In fact the TWU went to court to try and prevent me from posting excerpts from depositions taken from TWU officials.
Thom McDaniel here…
I just joined this site today when one of our Members emailed me some of the running dialogue regarding the Wright Amendment. Imagine how surprised I was to read all these things that I have supposedly said, done, or will do.
I’d like to clear up a few things…
I don’t consider myself a radical, but I do consider myself a Union leader who believes in strong (AFL-CIO affiliated) Unions, Member rights, and standing up for working people.
I never threatened to pull SWA Flight Attendants out of TWU. I hope never to have the ego or support to blame Membership problems on the International. I have always advocated change from within if your Union was not meeting the Membership needs – that is precisely the reason I ran for office.
When we chose to run a Membership Driven Strategic Campaign, I did tell our International that if they did not support our Members to achieve the Contract we deserved, I believed that our Members would no longer support TWU. Although it was a different kind of campaign than our Membership or our International was used to, it was effective and we received tremendous support from International and many other TWU Locals.
I did write a letter in support of AFA. I also wrote a letter in support of Teamsters when PFAA was trying to decert them. I believe in strong Unions who are AFL-CIO affiliates.
For those of you who believe that I have become a shill for the International, please note that I was not even aware of the discussions to organized NWA Flight Attendants. When I was notified of the effort, I wrote a letter supporting TWU for NWA Flight Attendants.
This may sound contradictory, but please realize that I have been steadfast in my support of the AFL-CIO. I supported Teamsters and AFA, however when I became aware that TWU was in the race, I supported my Union. This decision was based on my experience with TWU as well as my experience with NWA Flight Attendants. Their main critcism of Teamsters was that they did not get to run their own Union. I believe that they local autonomy offered by TWU would be more conducive to their needs.
I was recently elected as a TWU International Vice President but am NOT an International Rep. I accepted the position because I felt that since Local 556 is the largest Local in the ATD, we should have a position in the upper leadership of TWU as we did several years ago. I also accepted only under the condition that I continue my elected office of Local 556 President. I don’t now, never have, and never will receive a dime in compensation from TWU International. In fact, I have not even made the decision to run for office next year when my term is up. Under our Contract, you can actually make a pretty good living as a flight attendant with a lot more time off and fewer attacks on your character. This is another reason that I retain my right to speak out on common sense issues like repeal of the Wright Amendment. I can do that as Local 556 President, but could not as an International Rep. because I’m not on the International payroll.
I don’t know what your relationship is with International because I make a point not to get involved in the politics if I can help it. If you feel that Jim Little or anyone else in the International has done something illegal or in violation of our Constitution, press charges, but the corrupt Union boss line is harmful to all of us and especially to out our Members.
I hope I cleared up some things for people. I’ll try to check in her more often, but unfortunately I will not be able to post on here as often as some due to my full time job as Local 556 President. I did feel that it was important to speak for myself and hopefully put some rumors to rest.
In Solidarity,
Thom McDaniel
TWU Local 556 President
I just joined this site today when one of our Members emailed me some of the running dialogue regarding the Wright Amendment. Imagine how surprised I was to read all these things that I have supposedly said, done, or will do.
I’d like to clear up a few things…
I don’t consider myself a radical, but I do consider myself a Union leader who believes in strong (AFL-CIO affiliated) Unions, Member rights, and standing up for working people.
I never threatened to pull SWA Flight Attendants out of TWU. I hope never to have the ego or support to blame Membership problems on the International. I have always advocated change from within if your Union was not meeting the Membership needs – that is precisely the reason I ran for office.
When we chose to run a Membership Driven Strategic Campaign, I did tell our International that if they did not support our Members to achieve the Contract we deserved, I believed that our Members would no longer support TWU. Although it was a different kind of campaign than our Membership or our International was used to, it was effective and we received tremendous support from International and many other TWU Locals.
I did write a letter in support of AFA. I also wrote a letter in support of Teamsters when PFAA was trying to decert them. I believe in strong Unions who are AFL-CIO affiliates.
For those of you who believe that I have become a shill for the International, please note that I was not even aware of the discussions to organized NWA Flight Attendants. When I was notified of the effort, I wrote a letter supporting TWU for NWA Flight Attendants.
This may sound contradictory, but please realize that I have been steadfast in my support of the AFL-CIO. I supported Teamsters and AFA, however when I became aware that TWU was in the race, I supported my Union. This decision was based on my experience with TWU as well as my experience with NWA Flight Attendants. Their main critcism of Teamsters was that they did not get to run their own Union. I believe that they local autonomy offered by TWU would be more conducive to their needs.
I was recently elected as a TWU International Vice President but am NOT an International Rep. I accepted the position because I felt that since Local 556 is the largest Local in the ATD, we should have a position in the upper leadership of TWU as we did several years ago. I also accepted only under the condition that I continue my elected office of Local 556 President. I don’t now, never have, and never will receive a dime in compensation from TWU International. In fact, I have not even made the decision to run for office next year when my term is up. Under our Contract, you can actually make a pretty good living as a flight attendant with a lot more time off and fewer attacks on your character. This is another reason that I retain my right to speak out on common sense issues like repeal of the Wright Amendment. I can do that as Local 556 President, but could not as an International Rep. because I’m not on the International payroll.
I don’t know what your relationship is with International because I make a point not to get involved in the politics if I can help it. If you feel that Jim Little or anyone else in the International has done something illegal or in violation of our Constitution, press charges, but the corrupt Union boss line is harmful to all of us and especially to out our Members.
I hope I cleared up some things for people. I’ll try to check in her more often, but unfortunately I will not be able to post on here as often as some due to my full time job as Local 556 President. I did feel that it was important to speak for myself and hopefully put some rumors to rest.
In Solidarity,
Thom McDaniel
TWU Local 556 President
I could never cross a picket line.
In fact, the NWA Mechanic strike and the media portrayal bothered me so much I wrote this letter to USA Today last week. I only wish it had be published.
"Dear Editor:
As a union president at a major airline, I disagree with Jewel Gopwani's assessment in her story "Northwest vote provides glimpse of union's future" (October 18, 2004), but not for the the most obvious reasons.
The future of Northwest Airlines is shaky at best. Reasonable union leaders and reasonable managers should be working together to protect their company and ultimately their jobs. Reasonable union leaders and reasonable managers understand the importance of compromise and partnership during difficult financial times.
At Northwest Airlines, the management is neither reasonable nor realistic. With threats of outsourcing the jobs of their mechanics and recently their flight attendants, they have chosen to try to bust their unions and the result has been that they have busted their own company.
Other airlines have recognized that collaboration and cooperation between companies and unions can produce positive results have given their companies the competitive edge that they need to survive this turbulent industry. Good examples that good labor relations produce better balance sheets exist at Continental, American, and of course good old Southwest.
The very least that Northwest Airlines could do is to fire the scabs who if allowed to stay will remain constant reminders of the worst possible betrayal to workers. If, and only if Northwest executives do the right thing to guarantee as many union jobs as possible, their workers will have hope for the future and a reason to save their company. If Northwest turns their back on the good union employees who built their company and protects the scabs, the unions will have no choice and Northwest will have no future.
In Solidarity,
Thom McDaniel
President, TWU Local 556 representing Southwest Airlines Flight Attendants"
In fact, the NWA Mechanic strike and the media portrayal bothered me so much I wrote this letter to USA Today last week. I only wish it had be published.
"Dear Editor:
As a union president at a major airline, I disagree with Jewel Gopwani's assessment in her story "Northwest vote provides glimpse of union's future" (October 18, 2004), but not for the the most obvious reasons.
The future of Northwest Airlines is shaky at best. Reasonable union leaders and reasonable managers should be working together to protect their company and ultimately their jobs. Reasonable union leaders and reasonable managers understand the importance of compromise and partnership during difficult financial times.
At Northwest Airlines, the management is neither reasonable nor realistic. With threats of outsourcing the jobs of their mechanics and recently their flight attendants, they have chosen to try to bust their unions and the result has been that they have busted their own company.
Other airlines have recognized that collaboration and cooperation between companies and unions can produce positive results have given their companies the competitive edge that they need to survive this turbulent industry. Good examples that good labor relations produce better balance sheets exist at Continental, American, and of course good old Southwest.
The very least that Northwest Airlines could do is to fire the scabs who if allowed to stay will remain constant reminders of the worst possible betrayal to workers. If, and only if Northwest executives do the right thing to guarantee as many union jobs as possible, their workers will have hope for the future and a reason to save their company. If Northwest turns their back on the good union employees who built their company and protects the scabs, the unions will have no choice and Northwest will have no future.
In Solidarity,
Thom McDaniel
President, TWU Local 556 representing Southwest Airlines Flight Attendants"
Tom,
I would have to disagree about American labor relations from a workers view, but I do respect the fact that you have come out against the union-busting at NWA. I only wish the rest the the International shared that view. For one, the TWU represents workers at NWA that cross a picket line everyday to go to work. As this article shows, the TWU is an active in the NWA plan of eliminating AMFA at NWA by not taking a stand like Guy Meeks.
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsu...cs/12962357.htm
I would have to disagree about American labor relations from a workers view, but I do respect the fact that you have come out against the union-busting at NWA. I only wish the rest the the International shared that view. For one, the TWU represents workers at NWA that cross a picket line everyday to go to work. As this article shows, the TWU is an active in the NWA plan of eliminating AMFA at NWA by not taking a stand like Guy Meeks.
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsu...cs/12962357.htm
Hackman
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Thom,
I disagree with your statement on "change from within", "member rights", and "standing up for working people" as far as the twu and afl-cio are concerned. The twu I have known doesn't allow change, it has continued to violate workers rights (Sonny Hall was convicted of it), and it has not stood up for the working people.
Did you support the exclusion of AMFA at SWA in the SWA Labor Coalition because AMFA doesn't belong to the afl-cio? Is it still that way now at SWA?
The afl-cio, like the twu, does not allow "change from with", and this is why many member unions have left the afl-cio. The afl-cio has sat by while the workers of this country are assaulted on all fronts. Apparently, as long as the union leaders keep the CEO-type compensation and benefits, the workers suffering will go unnoticed. Strong afl-cio unions are a thing of the past in my opinion. It won't change with the out-of-touch old white guys still running it from their rocking chairs.
You must be in a different twu than I know. We have been sold out at AA with continuous concessions with the twu since 1983. We have a person named Jim Little in the International that was in AA management for six years.
There are many reasons why the twu was ousted by the AA F/A's, and failed to be elected by Delta and Continental workers.
I would almost rather have no union than the twu.
I congradulate you Mr. McDaniel if you are a legitimate (uncorrupted) leader in the twu. You would be one of the first I have heard of, but your not yet in for a lifetime position in the corrupt and unaccountable twu International.
I disagree with your statement on "change from within", "member rights", and "standing up for working people" as far as the twu and afl-cio are concerned. The twu I have known doesn't allow change, it has continued to violate workers rights (Sonny Hall was convicted of it), and it has not stood up for the working people.
Did you support the exclusion of AMFA at SWA in the SWA Labor Coalition because AMFA doesn't belong to the afl-cio? Is it still that way now at SWA?
The afl-cio, like the twu, does not allow "change from with", and this is why many member unions have left the afl-cio. The afl-cio has sat by while the workers of this country are assaulted on all fronts. Apparently, as long as the union leaders keep the CEO-type compensation and benefits, the workers suffering will go unnoticed. Strong afl-cio unions are a thing of the past in my opinion. It won't change with the out-of-touch old white guys still running it from their rocking chairs.
You must be in a different twu than I know. We have been sold out at AA with continuous concessions with the twu since 1983. We have a person named Jim Little in the International that was in AA management for six years.
There are many reasons why the twu was ousted by the AA F/A's, and failed to be elected by Delta and Continental workers.
I would almost rather have no union than the twu.
I congradulate you Mr. McDaniel if you are a legitimate (uncorrupted) leader in the twu. You would be one of the first I have heard of, but your not yet in for a lifetime position in the corrupt and unaccountable twu International.
Thom;
Do you think that reasonable union leaders should gut their members contract while retaining company paid union business to the tune of $3.1 million a year? Gut their members contracts and then accept raises for themselves?
Instead of cutting out these illegal payments to themselves we took deeper cuts, have you ever compared the Internationals pay to other unions?
Keep in mind that International reps recieve this pay from the company in addition to their Union paycheck. The DOL is currently investigating these payments.
A while back you sent me an E-mail saying that we should share our ideas, I was up front with you and you chose to make no further contact. No doubt you have heard Jims spin.
What you must realize is that your relationship with the TWU is completely different than ours. You have control over your Local and your contract. You are the only Local that is party to your contract. Thats not the case at AA where the membership is split up between 21 Locals and all dealings between top management and the membership is done through unelected International reps. With us none of the locals are party to the contract, the contract is with the International, not any or even all the locals.
Jim will tell you "Everything has to be approved by the Presidents council". Thats false. The fact is that the Presidents coucil has no power and that was established by the TWU International when despite the fact that the Presidents council rejected the formation of seperate locals the Internatioinal put it in place anyway. All you need to do is read the TWUs arguements in court.
Even if that was the case (that everything has to be approved by the Presidents council) what gives the President of any Local the right to approve things without it being brought back to the E-boards and the membership?
Jim will tell you that the membership has the right to reject any changes to the contract, however once again they contradict themselves when members hold them to it in the courtroom. In court the TWU testified that we only have the right to ratify initial contracts, that means in our case the one from 1946 satisfied the Constitution of the TWU.
Jim lies all the time and gets away with it because hes confident that nobody will check as to what they say under oath in court.
Did Jim tell you that AA had hired Eclat to make a presentation to the TWU and other union leaders as to how dire AA financial condition was, in other words to sell us on concessions, and then he hired the same firm to do the same thing for the members? Eclat, the same firm that AA once again hired to put out all that propaganda against repealing the Wright Amendment? Eclat the firm that says whatever AA wants it to say. Do you believe Eclats claim that repealing the Wright Amendment will hurt Dallas?
Did Jim ever mention that he was in management at AA? Not to say that an epiphany is impossible, just not likely in Jims case. He is a salesman. Ask him how the $3.1 million that the compnay gives to the TWU is dispersed. Ask him if any International officers are getting paid by the company while supposedly on Union leave. Ask him how Bobby Gless continued to get paid by the company while working as a full time union rep, accruing credit for his two pensions at the same time. Ask him how come Bobby Gless testified he gets paid $120,000 a year however the LM-2 for 2003 does not list him as an employee and the LM-3 for 2004 only shows $60,000? If he tries to spin about reporting dates ask him why Connellys salary is reported differently.
Clearly Thom, I dont doubt your sincerity and devotion to your membership but your choice to "stay out of the politics" is a cop out, in fact what you have done is chosen sides, the Internationals, you just dont want to get involved in reconciling your position of supporting them while they suppress others. You turned your back on Local 100, did you ever give them the chance to explain their position or did you just take the Internationals word on it? The fact is you have taken a stand to ignore the truth and support Little and company, as long as they leave you alone, the heck with everyone else.
While your members have gone unscathed by all the crap going on in this industry sooner or later it will affect you too. "An injury to one is an injury to all." While you may be the largest Local in the ATD, and combined with Local 555 a sizable chunk of the ATD, SWA as a whole is small compared to the TWU membership of AMR which includes American Airlines and American Eagle. Eagle is the outfit that AMR is going to set against SWA and its also where Jim Little helped lock in long term concessions prior to the current downturn. Eagles attack will be continue to be financed by AA, AMR will use its International revenue to help Eagle attack SWA on the domestic market. SWAs competative advantage to AA will be undermined by the much, much lower labor costs of Eagle.
Jim Little is a friend of AMR management, thats where he came from. He will make sure that AA gets what ever it wants, as long as AMR is funnelling dues, plus and few million here and there to the TWU. I dont know if you were present for Ed Koziateks retirement party. I was, and although you probably would not know it because you dont know the people from AA management I can tell you that at that party there were more members from AMR management there than from the rank and file of the TWU at AMR.
Thom, I dont expect you to make political suicide however I believe I sent you a list of names of people in the TWU that were interested in repairing our badly broken union. And despite what you have seen this union is badly broken. Contacting Local 100 is a must. Surely you remember Sonny Halls reaction to your modest proposals at the 2001 Convention? Knowing the International , they were quick to give you some BS explanation as to why they reacted that way. They will tell you they are in favor of changes but if you really push the issue you will see their real feelings, and even risk being removed.
I applaud you for not submitting to the temptation to draw an International paycheck. But I hope that you do not continue on the path of blaming the unions ills on the members, thats the first sign of slipping into the Internationals trap. Before you know it the natural fustration that comes with leadership will make that safe International position look very appealing. You would not be the first to follow that path. The fact is that the International will not lead and that is the overwhelming reason why the TWU is failing its members. The leadership of the International TWU does not believe in the membership of the TWU, is it any wonder that the membership feels the same way about the International? We dont blame soldiers for losing the battle, we blame Generals, and the reason for that is sound.The fact is Leadership counts. Leadership that is not accountable is not leadership at all.
