TWU Reaches TA with company!

[Bob Owens]

Nothing would make the company happier than to dump the cabin cleaning on the flight attendants. After all when the plane is on the ground, we aren't doing anything productive--just sitting with the wheelchair passengers at DFW for 20-30 minutes waiting for the wheelchairs to show up (while the agent is standing at the door going "Can we board? Can we board? Can we board?"), or trying to get something to eat since we've been given a 12 hour and 50 minute duty day with no more than 45 minutes on the ground all day long. Plus, since we aren't paid while the plane is at the gate, it would save the company money, right?

I dont get this, you have to stay with Wheel chair passengers even though you are not getting paid and now you want to clean the cabins while you are not getting paid as well?

Wouldnt you guys be better off accepting a lower hourly wage in exchange for ALL hours worked, including delays, layovers etc? Seems to me that you would not be faced with the situation where the airline claims they pay you $50/hr in the press but in reality you only get paid for half the hours, if that, that the job consumes.

 

[Hopeful]

That poster needs to spend a day with an insourced crew at MIA. I don't think you'll find too many things different...

And ALL non-AA employees who post here should ask AA to do a walk a mile in a shoes for each of the work groups. Come and spend a few hours in a fuel tank with me! Or maybe don the mask and gloves and coverall to replace a ruptured crap tank. And while you are knee deep in it, you can preach to me how lucky we all are to have jobs and should give more concessions to help our beloved AA.

 

[jimntx]

I dont get this, you have to stay with Wheel chair passengers even though you are not getting paid and now you want to clean the cabins while you are not getting paid as well?

Wouldnt you guys be better off accepting a lower hourly wage in exchange for ALL hours worked, including delays, layovers etc? Seems to me that you would not be faced with the situation where the airline claims they pay you $50/hr in the press but in reality you only get paid for half the hours, if that, that the job consumes.

Leave it to you to totally miss the irony and sarcasm.

 

[FWAAA]

Wouldnt you guys be better off accepting a lower hourly wage in exchange for ALL hours worked, including delays, layovers etc? Seems to me that you would not be faced with the situation where the airline claims they pay you $50/hr in the press but in reality you only get paid for half the hours, if that, that the job consumes.

Such a realignment might benefit the lower-seniority FAs who might spend 10-13 hours or more flying several short legs during a typical day and might sit in the terminals for half or more of that duty day, but it would be of very little benefit to the more senior international FAs whose month consists of just several long-haul flights and very little terminal sit time. The senior FAs already get paid for their inflight sit time (US Weekly, People, sudoku, etc) and rest time - something that the less-senior FAs get less of as they spend a larger proportion of their flight time rolling carts up and down the aisles than their long-haul counterparts.

BTW: there was nothing in Jim's post that indicated that he wanted to take on unpaid cabin cleaning.

 

[tom barry]

Nothing would make the company happier than to dump the cabin cleaning on the flight attendants. After all when the plane is on the ground, we aren't doing anything productive--just sitting with the wheelchair passengers at DFW for 20-30 minutes waiting for the wheelchairs to show up (while the agent is standing at the door going "Can we board? Can we board? Can we board?"), or trying to get something to eat since we've been given a 12 hour and 50 minute duty day with no more than 45 minutes on the ground all day long. Plus, since we aren't paid while the plane is at the gate, it would save the company money, right?

Jim,
I know that the following are IN your contract;
1. I YOU are the F/A with a WC pax WAIT till you're properly relieved(with a smile on your mug) as you watch the "turn-around minutes" tick by.
THEN "W A L K - O F F".....and take your mini lunck break, even if it means you don't buy anthing.
Return to the A/C, and then when the frazzled agent ask's "Can we board now", say "The A/C HASN'T been cleaned yet". Then tell the Capt'n they want to board a Uncleaned Aircraft !!

Bottom line, Beat them via thier Own written Rules.

 

[Bob Owens]

Such a realignment might benefit the lower-seniority FAs who might spend 10-13 hours or more flying several short legs during a typical day and might sit in the terminals for half or more of that duty day, but it would be of very little benefit to the more senior international FAs whose month consists of just several long-haul flights and very little terminal sit time. The senior FAs already get paid for their inflight sit time (US Weekly, People, sudoku, etc) and rest time - something that the less-senior FAs get less of as they spend a larger proportion of their flight time rolling carts up and down the aisles than their long-haul counterparts.

So are you saying that if an FA is not actively serving meals, drinks or making announcements they should not be paid? They are still on duty and have to respond to anything that may happen. I guess you feel Firemen should only get paid while in a fire and not for the time they are on Duty as well? You obviously get paid for your "sit time", and spend much of it here.

BTW: there was nothing in Jim's post that indicated that he wanted to take on unpaid cabin cleaning.

BTW apparently thats exactly what he meant ("Plus, since we aren't paid while the plane is at the gate, it would save the company money, right?") but it was meant to be taken as sarcasm.

Jimntx
Leave it to you to totally miss the irony and sarcasm.

 

[FWAAA]

So are you saying that if an FA is not actively serving meals, drinks or making announcements they should not be paid?

No, there's nothing in my post to support that nonsensical allegation. When you're negotiating, do you display a similar inability to understand words like you did with Jim's post or my post?

All I'm pointing out is that changing the pay structure to one with lower hourly rates but full pay for the entire duty day would be a larger relative benefit to the subset of FAs who spend much of their duty day sitting in terminals between their scheduled short flights than it would be to the other FAs who spend relatively little time on duty but not being paid. I doubt the senior ones would be in favor of a lower hourly rate since they have relatively little unpaid sit time compared to the lower-seniority ones like Jim.

They are still on duty and have to respond to anything that may happen. I guess you feel Firemen should only get paid while in a fire and not for the time they are on Duty as well? You obviously get paid for your "sit time", and spend much of it here.

Yes, change the focus to the poster instead of the topic. Well-played. Today I'm watching college football.

No, despite that nonsense above, I'm not opposed to the international FAs being paid for the entire flight, even the time they spend buiding forts and watching movies. I merely indicated that many of the long-haul FAs are not required to work the entire 10-14 hours but they are paid top rates anyway. Lower-seniority FAs like jimntx already spend a larger percentage of their day on unpaid status (sitting in terminal) and when they are paid they spend a larger percentage of that time working their tails off than the typical long-haul FAs. There are exceptions, however - I have been on short domestic flights where the FAs rush thru the service so quickly that they still have time to work on their bid sheets or peruse the latest gossip journals. FAs flying JFK-NRT or LAX-LHR don't have any "between flight nonproductive hours" like the ones flying between MSP-ORD or DFW-AUS.

 

[Bob Owens]

No, there's nothing in my post to support that nonsensical allegation.

Really, so what did you mean by this?

The senior FAs already get paid for their inflight sit time (US Weekly, People, sudoku, etc) and rest time

I'm not opposed to the international FAs being paid for the entire flight, even the time they spend buiding forts and watching movies

As long as they respond to the call button and do what needs to be done what do you care what they are doing with the time in between?

Your response was nothing more than a petty attack on senior Flight Attendants dont even bother trying to back out of it by sucking up to Jimntx.

Yes, change the focus to the poster instead of the topic. Well-played. Today I'm watching college football.

What does reading US Weekly, People playing Sudoko and watching movies have to do with the topic? The fact is those comments were unneccisary and reveal a petty spiteful demeanor.

FAs flying JFK-NRT or LAX-LHR don't have any "between flight nonproductive hours" like the ones flying between MSP-ORD or DFW-AUS.

No they get to crash in a hotel room half a world away from their families and get up to do another 16 hour jouney back home.

 

[blownkneesbob]

from someone whos been down this road at US.. anything positive you might think your going to get out of this will be wiped away when management takes AA into BK.. Your better off letting the
Judge decide what to take out of your contract. they usually just go for money and its for a certain period of time. We were told to take the deal or lose everything.. we took the deal and STILL lOST everything

Good luck to you guys.

 

[700UW]

The judge doesnt decide what stays in a CBA or doesnt, he doesnt cherry pick.

The judge can only rule to abrogate or not abrogate, and then the company imposes a final offer approved by the judge.

 

[Bob Owens]

from someone whos been down this road at US.. anything positive you might think your going to get out of this will be wiped away when management takes AA into BK.. Your better off letting the
Judge decide what to take out of your contract. they usually just go for money and its for a certain period of time. We were told to take the deal or lose everything.. we took the deal and STILL lOST everything

Good luck to you guys.

Having been through BK let me throw this at you.

Our current agreement has a plan in place where we contribute to a trust fund and our contributions are matched dollar for dollar by the company. Its called Prefunding. Each particiapnt has their own individual accounts in the fund. We start paying into the fund at age 30. When we retire those funds are drawn out and paid to the company in exchange for Retiree medical coverage at no further cost to us as long as we stay in the Standard Plan. It provides us coverage at no further cost for the rest of our lives.

The current agreement states that if the company unilterally terminates the plan they refund both our contributions plus interest and the matching contributions from the company plus interest. If we leave the company on our own or decide to no longer contribute to the plan we forfiet the matching contributions and interest experience.

The company proposal is for the union to agree to terminate payments to the fund, only return Employee Contributions plus interest experience and the company gets to keep all the matching funds which they will use to continue to provide coverage to all current retirees. In other word they want us to give up our money so they can pay their obligations. For the M&R group it comes out to $57 million, the Fleet group would be around the same.

Right now all these funds are sitting in a Trust so they are protected in BK. We would be pulling out all current employees from the fund by agreeing to this and giving the company half the money thats in our accounts.

Would you agree to giving a major concession (on average $5000) from a fund thats currently protected in BK if you thought the company was going to file BK? Would you agree that it would be foolish to agree give up something thats protected in BK even if you were told that by giving it up that it may help the company avoid BK?

By the way , your union let you down, as 700UW said the Judge doesnt pick whats in the deal, he either abrogates it or leaves it in place. The unions should have said no deal and struck as per the RLA. And told the Judges to stick their injunctions where the sun doesnt shine. When the courts came down on you we all should have jumped in. If we dont fight for our rights we lose them, and the courts will be willing to take them if they know we wont fight.

At the end of the day, the fact is your union (and mine) did not want to fight and they convinced us to agree to let them take it all away.

Now my Union is trying to convince members to each give away $5000 thats sitting in a protected trust to a company that, real or not, is setting things up for a BK filing. Go figure? Where are todays Mike Quills, Charlie Bryans and Jimmy Hoffa's (Sr). They are sorely needed.

 

[blownkneesbob]

Bob,
that prefunding account sounded like a very fair way to help with retiree medical coverage. wish I had something like that at US. I wouldn't give the company anything in that regard. As far as the company saying it will help keep them out of BK . I don't believe that for a minute. As a matter of a fact I was talking to a F/A friend the other day his girlfriend works for a major law firm and she said the AA has already file some kind of paperwork for BK. not quite sure how it all works but She told him it wasnt IF but just a matter of WHEN. Also US CEO Parker Loves to buy companys in BK . I think within in the next 24 months we all see another merger
do you guys have strong merger related language in your contract ?

 

[odie01]

. As a matter of a fact I was talking to a F/A friend the other day his girlfriend works for a major law firm and she said the AA has already file some kind of paperwork for BK. not quite sure how it all works but She told him it wasnt IF but just a matter of WHEN.

Tell your FA friend that they need to hurry up and do it, we are not going to conceed before concessions from the bankruptcy judge.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
that prefunding account sounded like a very fair way to help with retiree medical coverage. wish I had something like that at US. I wouldn't give the company anything in that regard. As far as the company saying it will help keep them out of BK . I don't believe that for a minute. As a matter of a fact I was talking to a F/A friend the other day his girlfriend works for a major law firm and she said the AA has already file some kind of paperwork for BK. not quite sure how it all works but She told him it wasnt IF but just a matter of WHEN. Also US CEO Parker Loves to buy companys in BK . I think within in the next 24 months we all see another merger
do you guys have strong merger related language in your contract ?

Thanks for the reply. Have no doubt that AA is going through the the motions in order to pressure the pilots. We were told back in 03 that they were "on the steps", only thing is there are no steps, the court entrance is street level in the old customs house. It was all BS. Back in 03 we heard the same " not a matter of if but when", eight years later we are hearing it still.

 

[Buck]

Tulsa World today:


American's parent, Fort Worth-based AMR Corp., isn't facing a takeover, but employees and area business officials probably are not sleeping well considering its serious financial challenges. Losses in many of its recent quarters have run into the hundreds of millions of dollars.

As a result, American's executives have been talking about the possibility of bankruptcy for a while now.

While the chances of American actually seeking Chapter 11 reorganization may be low, the prospect brings the same headache being suffered by Tulsa companies facing takeovers: uncertainty.

Will there be a loss of jobs?

Large empty buildings?

Less spending power in the local economy?

Uncertainty works both ways, however. A business could be acquired and left in Tulsa. With a cash infusion from its parent, the local unit might be able to grow at a rate not otherwise possible.