TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

What mechanics do is our choice, no other workgroup's.

I agree.
 

If you and others choose to support the TWU, then do so by all means. 

I thought I made my stance about the TWU very clear. I do NOT support them.
 
The only thing 514 ever did for me was negotiate Junior Fleet Service, a 9 year "step plan", 2 concessionary contracts, and cut under the table deals. 
 
I have no idea why you would think I would support them.
 

But defending them against an AMFA threat when it does not concern your group will get responses like mine.

I have offered the TWU no such support against an AMFA threat.
 
 
 
MetalMover I have been telling the patrons of this forum for over 2 years now that TWU is nothing but a political funding machine pushing liberal agendas.  It stopped being a UNION long ago. I think people are finally starting to understand that. Hopefully the internationals exodus from AA property is on the horizon. 
 
I truly hope AMFA is successful. If there is one thing I hate it's a parasite and the TWU is rife with them.

 

[MetalMover]

I agree.
 
I thought I made my stance about the TWU very clear. I do NOT support them.
 
The only thing 514 ever did for me was negotiate Junior Fleet Service, a 9 year "step plan", 2 concessionary contracts, and cut under the table deals. 
 
I have no idea why you would think I would support them.
 
I have offered the TWU no such support against an AMFA threat.
 
 
 
MetalMover I have been telling the patrons of this forum for over 2 years now that TWU is nothing but a political funding machine pushing liberal agendas.  It stopped being a UNION long ago. I think people are finally starting to understand that. Hopefully the internationals exodus from AA property is on the horizon. 
 
I truly hope AMFA is successful. If there is one thing I hate it's a parasite and the TWU is rife with them.

La Li,
You are one of the more level headed, realistic posters here. But I was directly responding to Nyer. What he fails to or refuses to understand is that there is a reason many mechanics are fed up with the TWU. Instead of cocky replies to our AMFA drives, he should be asking WHY we want the TWU gone. His agenda is more about bashing mechanics and AMFA while lauding all the wonderful things the TWU has done for him. And I know quite a few fsc, fac maint and auto guys who want the TWU gone as well. At least we have tried and will continue to try. Maybe his issue is with AMFA being they represent mainly mechanics. But again, why does he care what we do?
Oh right, he truly wants to see us leave the TWU...this way the TWU will be truly HIS union.

 

[NYer]

 
What have you been smoking?  Not one AA AMT in the ATD.  Bottom line, the TWU International is corrupt from top to bottom.  I look at TWU International like a pyramid scheme, the popular parasites get enough votes at the TWU convention to get the holy grail positions: president, vp, etc..  Once the parasites are in, the only objective is dues collection at any cost.  Then, throw in some liberal causes that do nothing to promote AMT pay and benefits, and it's enough to make me vomit.  Only somebody directly benefiting from the TWU Internationals fleecing of AA's AMTs would hold your point of view!

 
This cycle it's an argument that there are no AMT's in the ATD. Last cycle, you didn't like the AMT's that were in the ATD.
 
You guys called for change, and change you got.
 
With that said, there should be an AMT as an International Rep to at least have someone that understands the situation, history and challenges faced.

 

[NYer]

You mean FLEET SERVICE looking out for FLEET SERVICE...Which is perfectly fine..
Then don't knock the mechanics when we desire to separate from you.

 
Do you guys NOT read the posts. I've been ENCOURAGING you guys to get your cards signed since last summer. Why wait until now to get that process rolling.
 
What I do not agree with, is the rhetoric and misinformation that is used to try and persuade fellow mechanics to make the switch. To me, it's not right to call for change while bashing one organization to reach that goal rather than uplifting the organization that you want in.
 
In this case, there have been zero arguments made as to why AMFA will yield better results. It is just an argument that anything is better than the TWU and the fact you want to steer fellow mechanics into an organization that has clearly been marginalized during the last decade.

 

[MetalMover]

 
This cycle it's an argument that there are no AMT's in the ATD. Last cycle, you didn't like the AMT's that were in the ATD.
 
You guys called for change, and change you got.
 
With that said, there should be an AMT as an International Rep to at least have someone that understands the situation, history and challenges faced.

Are you referring to HAND PICKED AMT's in the ATD? Hand picked by Little and now Lombardo?
How about we get a chance to vote on who represents us? 

 

[MetalMover]

 
Do you guys NOT read the posts. I've been ENCOURAGING you guys to get your cards signed since last summer. Why wait until now to get that process rolling.
 
What I do not agree with, is the rhetoric and misinformation that is used to try and persuade fellow mechanics to make the switch. To me, it's not right to call for change while bashing one organization to reach that goal rather than uplifting the organization that you want in.
 
In this case, there have been zero arguments made as to why AMFA will yield better results. It is just an argument that anything is better than the TWU and the fact you want to steer fellow mechanics into an organization that has clearly been marginalized during the last decade.

Like I already said, your ENCOURAGEMENT comes off as smug and cocky. Do you think that those mechanics who want the TWU out  is all because of MISinformation? That we are all just getting on the ANTI-TWU bandwagon? 
That we don't have minds of our own? For your information, no one knows for sure what AMFA will or will NOT do...If the IBT didn't screw us either, they probably would be representing us now. this is more about ridding ourselves of the TWU at any cost. Do you understand that? The TWU is no good for mechanics. Add that to the loser IAM and the mechanic will get doubly screwed.

 

[swamt]

 
Do you guys NOT read the posts. I've been ENCOURAGING you guys to get your cards signed since last summer. Why wait until now to get that process rolling.
 
What I do not agree with, is the rhetoric and misinformation that is used to try and persuade fellow mechanics to make the switch. To me, it's not right to call for change while bashing one organization to reach that goal rather than uplifting the organization that you want in.
 
In this case, there have been zero arguments made as to why AMFA will yield better results. It is just an argument that anything is better than the TWU and the fact you want to steer fellow mechanics into an organization that has clearly been marginalized during the last decade.

We all know you are being sarcastic when you say these things.  I wanna see what you say when AMFA gets it done this time around, then what will you say?  All the reasons to bring AMFA in have been addressed a dozen times already, prior to you getting on this forum (some of us have been here since 2004)  but it never hurts to re-address some of the many reasons to fite the TWU/IAM and bring in AMFA.
 
With AMFA 60% of your monthly dues stays at the locals levels not international like the others.
With AMFA the members can and have removed National level officers as well as local level officers, solely done by the members, you CAN NOT do this with any other union.
With AMFA members can attend live nego's sitting and participating the nego's that affect your future. At SWA we have seen many many times where an observer has brought up ideas and at times have even stopped nego's to give input to the nego cmte as they were seeing things in a different way and the nego cmte changed the their nego's as it was explained to them by the observers, it really does make a difference in how the company nego as well.
With AMFA the members decide where and how much all the money gets spent on and how to distribute funds.
With AMFA the members vote on the pay for all the officers local and National level.
With AMFA no change to your contract can be made without a membership vote-period.
With AMFA you can change the position within the union without replacing the entire union.
With AMFA the members control everything, it is very transparent.  I could go on and on on the differences, just read the by-laws and constitution of AMFA and compare them to the TWU's and IAM's and of course this BS association,  oh, wait a minute, let's see, do they even have a constitution for this association?  How bout the by-laws?  Who the hell would vote in an association with out a structured rules and regs to follow?  They will be able to do anything they want to.  They can say they will combine the two unions all they want, but in the mean time during the most important time of getting the association up and running they will do what ever they want.  You guys would be nuts to bring in this association.  Like the guys have said sign a card, get them in and at least have a vote, and let the membership decide.  Other wise this will just be the beginning of how this association will control you guys instead of you guys controlling your union.  Please anyone feel free to add more differences there are plenty. Good luck to you all come this May...

 

[99Roadstar]

the association will be no better than the twu, which endorsed a contract with blank pages………..'to be determined'…….what a F'in joke………..the beatings will continue…………….or
SIGN A CARD

 

[NYer]

Are you referring to HAND PICKED AMT's in the ATD? Hand picked by Little and now Lombardo?
How about we get a chance to vote on who represents us? 

 
Your Local has elections, right? There you go.
 
For years the issue was the Fleet Presidents and the Tulsa Presidents, I guess you want to vote for those too. That's usually what the minority wants, to influence the majority to their ideas.
 
You can't even get enough like minded people to vote for the union you prefer. So, it seems you'll never be happy with anything that happens in the TWU world....whether you elect them or not.

 

[NYer]

Like I already said, your ENCOURAGEMENT comes off as smug and cocky. Do you think that those mechanics who want the TWU out  is all because of MISinformation? That we are all just getting on the ANTI-TWU bandwagon? 
That we don't have minds of our own? For your information, no one knows for sure what AMFA will or will NOT do...If the IBT didn't screw us either, they probably would be representing us now. this is more about ridding ourselves of the TWU at any cost. Do you understand that? The TWU is no good for mechanics. Add that to the loser IAM and the mechanic will get doubly screwed.

 
I understand that completely.
 
Making a change simply to get rid of something without having something better, really isn't a smart move. You guys wanted Videtich, Gless, Luis, Cirri, Little and rest of them gone. You got that, but it seems you're worse off now. No?
 
Making a change for the sake of making a change is probably the number one reason the TWU is still around. You guys haven't been able to show a viable replacement and the mere fact that you acknowledge that you don't know what AMFA would do, is exactly why that movement has stagnated and gained no traction. Not enough people are willing to take a shot in the dark.

 

[NYer]

We all know you are being sarcastic when you say these things. --Even when people agree with you, it's bad. Why would I encourage you guys to get cards signed since last summer if I was being sarcastic. I would have saved that for now and point out how you wasted all that time. Instead, I encouraged all of you to get the cards signed and not waste your time just moaning about things on a blog. You have no shot now, and that failure is self inflicted. I guess there will be a spirited "write-in" campaign coming soon. Too little, too late, too bad.
 
 I wanna see what you say when AMFA gets it done this time around, then what will you say? --I would say, "congratulations and good luck."
 
All the reasons to bring AMFA in have been addressed a dozen times already, prior to you getting on this forum (some of us have been here since 2004)  but it never hurts to re-address some of the many reasons to fite the TWU/IAM and bring in AMFA. --You been going over the reasons for change for 11 years, according to your post, but it hasn't happened. This time, you guys get and entire summer, fall and winter pass you by and suddenly you believe this time will be different? Most people would realize the tactics used for all these years haven't worked, they may have actually been a deterrent. If you have confidence this will be it...good luck. I guess we'll have to prepare ourselves for the conspiracy theory to explain the latest setback in the AMFA drive.
 
With AMFA 60% of your monthly dues stays at the locals levels not international like the others. --It's over 60% at the TWU
 
With AMFA the members can and have removed National level officers as well as local level officers, solely done by the members, you CAN NOT do this with any other union. --I guess that's a plus for some.
 
With AMFA members can attend live nego's sitting and participating the nego's that affect your future. At SWA we have seen many many times where an observer has brought up ideas and at times have even stopped nego's to give input to the nego cmte as they were seeing things in a different way and the nego cmte changed the their nego's as it was explained to them by the observers, it really does make a difference in how the company nego as well. --So I supposed you'd exchange the entire TWU AA CBA for the entire SWA CBA?
 
With AMFA the members decide where and how much all the money gets spent on and how to distribute funds. --That seems like a nice gesture.
 
With AMFA the members vote on the pay for all the officers local and National level. --I guess that's a nice thing to have too.
 
With AMFA no change to your contract can be made without a membership vote-period. --That could be good or bad, but I guess it's a choice, right.
 
With AMFA you can change the position within the union without replacing the entire union. --OK.
 
With AMFA the members control everything, it is very transparent.  I could go on and on on the differences, just read the by-laws and constitution of AMFA and compare them to the TWU's and IAM's and of course this BS association,  oh, wait a minute, let's see, do they even have a constitution for this association? --Yes, they do have a Constitution.
 
 How bout the by-laws?  Who the hell would vote in an association with out a structured rules and regs to follow? --I'd guess no one. That's why there is a Constitution to cover the very limited scope of the Association.
 
 They will be able to do anything they want to.  They can say they will combine the two unions all they want, but in the mean time during the most important time of getting the association up and running they will do what ever they want.  You guys would be nuts to bring in this association.  Like the guys have said sign a card, get them in and at least have a vote, and let the membership decide.  Other wise this will just be the beginning of how this association will control you guys instead of you guys controlling your union.  Please anyone feel free to add more differences there are plenty. Good luck to you all come this May...--How about the things that the majority of mechanics worry about, like their wages, benefits and their ability to limit outsourcing. Please show us how the Alaska and Southwest CBA's have addressed those issues.

 

[NYer]

the association will be no better than the twu, which endorsed a contract with blank pages………..'to be determined'…….what a F'in joke………..the beatings will continue…………….or
SIGN A CARD

 
Endorsed a contract will blank pages..."to be determined?"

 

[Rogallo]

 
 I wanna see what you say when AMFA gets it done this time around, then what will you say? --I would say, "congratulations and good luck."
 
 

 
In your obviously sarcastic and condescending tone no doubt!

 

[scorpion 2]

 
I understand that completely.
 
Making a change simply to get rid of something without having something better, really isn't a smart move. You guys wanted Videtich, Gless, Luis, Cirri, Little and rest of them gone. You got that, but it seems you're worse off now. No?
 
Making a change for the sake of making a change is probably the number one reason the TWU is still around. You guys haven't been able to show a viable replacement and the mere fact that you acknowledge that you don't know what AMFA would do, is exactly why that movement has stagnated and gained no traction. Not enough people are willing to take a shot in the dark.

There were enough cards the last time but the nmb wouldn't accept them. Remember the company miraculously turned in their list within hours of the ibt filing. It took US Air weeks to turn in their list but AA did it within hours on the same day.  Like they say "politics make strange bedfellows" so when the company's pet union is up against the wall the back room deals will be made. Keep on with your drivel though and maybe you will even believe what you say. What we want is to choose the Little's, Gless's etc.etc not be given the establishments hand picked unaccountable's. Would there be uncertainty going with AMFA?  The answer is easily yes. Would there be uncertainty going with a combo of 2 of the worst industrial unions out there? LOL!  The bottom line is we deserve a choice!            

 

[MetalMover]

 
Your Local has elections, right? There you go.
 
For years the issue was the Fleet Presidents and the Tulsa Presidents, I guess you want to vote for those too. That's usually what the minority wants, to influence the majority to their ideas.
 
You can't even get enough like minded people to vote for the union you prefer. So, it seems you'll never be happy with anything that happens in the TWU world....whether you elect them or not.

You know damn well I'm talking about ATD appointments. Don't play stupid.