TWU DO YOUR PAID DUTIES!

[AA89]

While it's true that a lot of 'yankees' are wanting out from the snow, I do find it INTERESTING that the only areas in the US where property values are rising is up in the 'dying' North (BOS, parts of Connecticut, NYC, SFO just to name a few)
Crappy arse unions you say,..............checked out the Chicago teachers unions lately ????

"Tex-ass", yeah, I spelled it right !
And what is it with you "sackless" morons down there ? I mean I've NEVER seen an area of the country (like below the Mason-Dixon line) That likes the TASTE of "the MAN's ASSS'......'smooch-smooch-smooch' Y'all !!!!!!!!!!!

Hahahaha, property values are rising. Yeah cause you're landlocked and out of space. The U-hauls aren't going north you dolt. They are heade to the sunshine, jobs, and lower cost housing. You sure have a fixation on the male anatomy. No surprise, after all you are from New Hampshire.My only experience with unions is the TWU. Sorry, I'm not impressed in any way with what they have done.I wish the Chicago teachers well.maybe they can do better than Wisconsin did. If you know anything about the airlines you will know that because of the RLA it will be a cold day in hell before you see an organized walkout by a union. It has nothing to do with geography.The two AMT locals in Texas voted against the contract.

 

[AA89]

Better weather.

Yeah, I guess the weather started getting better here in the late 70s.

 

[iluvaa]

That may be the case with Title II but it appears that the measly $40k isnt enough for too many of our guys to sign control of their lives over to the company. (UAL gave $75k). I guess many figure they will keep this till they find something better on their own timetable and not on one the company determines.

In Title II as of Friday 109 guys put in for it with a projected RIF of 179 they are looking at a RIF of 67.

In stores 61 put in out of 172 projected RIFs, knocking them down to 111.

In Maint they are looking at 1701reductions, and only 463 put in so far, they would need 1238 more.

So the company would end up laying off over 10% of its Aircraft Mechanic workforce, its youngest cheapest workers which would drive up costs and the average Age of its mechanic workforce, plus they would not be able to hire any of those kids in school they promised jobs to, that their competitors can hire, because AA would have to go through their own recall list first. AA's loss will be SWA and other carriers gain. My guess is that we will have the oldest mechanic workforce in the industry with an average age well in excess of US's 55. Old and pissed off, a real formula for success!

Bob you fail to see that alot of those that signed up for the early out are already in that lay off number. Many in my work area are going to be rifed and just want the extra money

 

[Kev3188]

Yeah, I guess the weather started getting better here in the late 70s.

Too early for dry wit?

 

[AA89]

Too early for dry wit?

Ooops, sorry. I was going to ask if you had ever been here in the summer. Hahaha

 

[Overspeed]

Thanks to you nobody is secure.

I think we may be the only unionized mechanics in the industry with zero furlough protection.

AA is getting three new fleet types, so that means they have to buy a lot of new parts for those fleets, that means they can RIF even more of our guys and outsource more maintenance.

Like I've said before, I never expected anybody to lower wages or give up benefits so I wouldnt get laid off, sure I only got laid off once from a full time position but I knew that after I put in the years somewhere the likelyhood of getting laid off would be less, if you keep giving stuff up everytime the company threatens to layoff then the job wont be worth coming back to. After 9-11 they furloughed nearly 300 guys from New York after we gave away pay and benefits, 90% of them chose not to come back when they were recalled.

Last RIF when guys bumped into NY they did so when in real terms they were earning at least 50% more than they are now. If they struggled then how do you think they will make out now? We saw what happened to the Upgrades back in 2010, the company let them all go back because when they tried to get housing nobody would give them a lease because they didnt earn enough.

Thats the reality out there.

Wrong. The outsourcing cap in scope limits job loss. Job security only capped the lowest seniority date that could RIF'd and as people attrit out above the job security date, what stops the loss in HC is the scope clause limits.

Only expendable material and parts are booked as maintenance costs. Rotables, the most expensive parts, are not expensed and therefore do not hit the M&E P&L. They are assets and are carried on the AA books as such. Buying a lot of rotable parts won't drive more job loss.

I would expect that most of those people that were RIF'd following 9/11 would not come back. Most of them had low seniority and probably were low on the pay scale. I imagine most of them found other jobs after being out a year or more and had time invested in the new job. Bad example.

The AMTs' that went back to AFW did so because it was their intention to always stay in AFW/DFW area. They only upgraded at JFK because they were told there would be no upgrades in AFW. Granted NYC is expensive but that wasn't the reason they went back to Dallas.

 

[Shafted]

Better weather.

Im a NYer and living in Texas, if you mean blistering heat as in better you are mistaken!!! I wish i could afford to be living back in NY with the four season instead of just two! Housing affordability is the only reason Im here in Tx.

 

[Rogallo]

As the saying goes.

Welcome to Texas..........Now Go Home..!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Wrong. The outsourcing cap in scope limits job loss. Job security only capped the lowest seniority date that could RIF'd and as people attrit out above the job security date, what stops the loss in HC is the scope clause limits.

Ok, so whats the number? How many mechanics must remain on payroll? You are the one that claims theres a limit, but the fact is as the old planes leave and work goes away the company can continue to outsource as jobs dissapear. So the more they save and lower total costs, or the more they spend on parts or line maint the more heads they can cut on OH.

Only expendable material and parts are booked as maintenance costs. Rotables, the most expensive parts, are not expensed and therefore do not hit the M&E P&L. They are assets and are carried on the AA books as such. Buying a lot of rotable parts won't drive more job loss.

So when a rotable part is repaired how is the cost put on the books?

Ok, Lets say expendable parts make up 15% of the Total maint costs. Just a guess, and labor makes up the other 85%. thats 100%. So the company is allowed to outsource labor up to a limit of 35% of the total costs. So if total costs are( lets say for easy numbers) $1 billion they can outsource $350million worth of labor. So out of the $850 million in labor costs they can spend $350 million on outsourced labor-so right off the bat thats 41% of labor costs outsourced. So can you can see how including parts hurts us and allows the company to outsource more than 35% of the labor costs? The higher the cost for parts the more labor they can send out. If Parts made up 30% of total costs then they could outsource 50% of labor costs. But other factors can greatly increase the amount of job los beyond those numbers.

While $350 million may only buy 3,500,000 hours in Tulsa or 1,682 FTE mechanics it may buy 7 million hours in Malaysia which would allow the company to eliminate 3364 FTE jobs in Tulsa instead of 1,682.. Volume of work drives the man hours, and jobs, but we arent limiting volume per se, we are limiting outsourced spend, so the cheaper they can find labor outside of the TWU, including workers who work for AA such as in South America, the more of our jobs they can eliminate. Then as new planes come in, and the volume of work shrinks, even more jobs can be eliminated while they continue to outsource 35% of the Maint spend. With system protection it would get to the point where unless they wanted to pay people so just show up, they would have to bring work back in house, our peers have this at UAL and even USAIR, defined limits as to the amount of workers who could not be firred, but we dont. there is no defined limit as to the people whose jobs can be eliminated. If they are in danger of going over the 35% and getting caught, they can stock up on parts to meet the 65% but as far as OH labor being outsourceed they could under certain conditions outsource all of it under the so called "job saving ' language you endorsed.

Basically the more money spent on any part of the 65% whether its line maint labor or parts, the more OH they can outsource, the cap for the line which is indutry leading as far as being inferior, is still better defined, at 15% of line maint, than it is for OH. 100% of OH could be outsourced if Line maint costs and parts go up enough and they can find labor cheap enough anywhere in the world.

Instead of saving OH we gave management everything they needed to get rid of all of it.

.

The AMTs' that went back to AFW did so because it was their intention to always stay in AFW/DFW area. They only upgraded at JFK because they were told there would be no upgrades in AFW. Granted NYC is expensive but that wasn't the reason they went back to Dallas.

I was involved in the whole thing, were you? I heard from the mother who could not get an apartment and the others who were blown away by how expensive it was. The reason why they were able to get back is because the company hoodwinked them into going there and started upgrading people locally in Texas after forcing them to go to NY if they wanted the upgrade.

 

[whatajoke]

Bob why are you still working for AA many companies would welcome you expertise and how to fix the airline industry. Do not miss your calling. you are batting 0 for 500 as a union guy.

 

[Buck]

If the mechanic ranks are reduced, shouldn't we get comparable wages to Southwest?

 

[comatose]

If the mechanic ranks are reduced, shouldn't we get comparable wages to Southwest?

The company says see ya in six years, which is really more like ten.

 

[High Speed Steel]

The company says see ya in six years, which is really more like ten.

Wrong. After tomorrow we will see them at the negotiation table again on or about September 12, 2016... B)

 

[Overspeed]

Ok, so whats the number? How many mechanics must remain on payroll? You are the one that claims theres a limit, but the fact is as the old planes leave and work goes away the company can continue to outsource as jobs dissapear. So the more they save and lower total costs, or the more they spend on parts or line maint the more heads they can cut on OH.





So when a rotable part is repaired how is the cost put on the books?

Ok, Lets say expendable parts make up 15% of the Total maint costs. Just a guess, and labor makes up the other 85%. thats 100%. So the company is allowed to outsource labor up to a limit of 35% of the total costs. So if total costs are( lets say for easy numbers) $1 billion they can outsource $350million worth of labor. So out of the $850 million in labor costs they can spend $350 million on outsourced labor-so right off the bat thats 41% of labor costs outsourced. So can you can see how including parts hurts us and allows the company to outsource more than 35% of the labor costs? The higher the cost for parts the more labor they can send out. If Parts made up 30% of total costs then they could outsource 50% of labor costs. But other factors can greatly increase the amount of job los beyond those numbers.

While $350 million may only buy 3,500,000 hours in Tulsa or 1,682 FTE mechanics it may buy 7 million hours in Malaysia which would allow the company to eliminate 3364 FTE jobs in Tulsa instead of 1,682.. Volume of work drives the man hours, and jobs, but we arent limiting volume per se, we are limiting outsourced spend, so the cheaper they can find labor outside of the TWU, including workers who work for AA such as in South America, the more of our jobs they can eliminate. Then as new planes come in, and the volume of work shrinks, even more jobs can be eliminated while they continue to outsource 35% of the Maint spend. With system protection it would get to the point where unless they wanted to pay people so just show up, they would have to bring work back in house, our peers have this at UAL and even USAIR, defined limits as to the amount of workers who could not be firred, but we dont. there is no defined limit as to the people whose jobs can be eliminated. If they are in danger of going over the 35% and getting caught, they can stock up on parts to meet the 65% but as far as OH labor being outsourceed they could under certain conditions outsource all of it under the so called "job saving ' language you endorsed.

Basically the more money spent on any part of the 65% whether its line maint labor or parts, the more OH they can outsource, the cap for the line which is indutry leading as far as being inferior, is still better defined, at 15% of line maint, than it is for OH. 100% of OH could be outsourced if Line maint costs and parts go up enough and they can find labor cheap enough anywhere in the world.

Instead of saving OH we gave management everything they needed to get rid of all of it.

.

I was involved in the whole thing, were you? I heard from the mother who could not get an apartment and the others who were blown away by how expensive it was. The reason why they were able to get back is because the company hoodwinked them into going there and started upgrading people locally in Texas after forcing them to go to NY if they wanted the upgrade.

That's the point, it is a cap on outsourced labor and material maintenance spend. Jobs are directly related to labor and material labor spend. They are not directly related to a date. If everyone attrits our that has more years than the job protection date AA does not have to add anybody unless there is a limit on the dollars spent outside for work on aircraft.

Your theory is full of too many "what-if's". Overhaul contracts will not be bid on time and material, they will more likely be on a per check basis with a time and material rate for hours over the standard package of work. And no, when new fleets come in they do not need HC so the amount that can be outsourced goes down overall. Line work is capped at 15% so AA cannot outsource more than that.

Overhaul is protected as long as their are aircraft that need overhaul. When new planes get old the scope language ensures that 65% of the labor and material is in-house. UA, US, and WN have no such way to drive that new work in-house.

Bob I liked your suck up letter to Little and it made more sense for once than your usual amazing stories from the wannabee MBA and labor leader. It showed your true colors that you will say whatever you have to just to protect your own hide. Thank you for finally coming clean.

 

[Buck]

And as the total headcount of mechanics per aircraft nears that of SWA, our pay should approach their pay.