Topic: American''s Unfair Treatment of TWA Family

[dogdriver]

Tools,

OK, I'll play your Clintonesque game. When you dovetailed Ozark, were they a financially healthy airline? When AA bought most of TWAs assets, were they (TWA) financially healthy? Lastly, how would you compare the financial condition of the two now defunct airlines just before they disappeared?

 

[TOOLS]

Dogdriver... read my previous post over and over and over again until you get it.[]

 

[bagsmasher]

TOOLS,
Is that how you start to believe that garbage? By repeating it over and over until you start believeing it?
Okay, I'll give it a try.

Carty drove TWA into bankruptcy.
Carty drove TWA into bankruptcy.
Carty drove TWA into bankruptcy.
TWA adds VALUE to AA.
TWA adds VALUE to AA.
TWA adds VALUE to AA.

I'm sorry it's still not working. Maybe you can help me out and show me just where you guys are hiding the "value". What I see is a purchase driven by fear of the UAL/US combination, and the desire of Carty to be "the world's largest airline."

 

[TOOLS]

----------------
I'm sorry it's still not working.....
----------------

You must use your mind grasshopper**I mean bagsmasher. (a little kungfu humor).

Bags what input did you have on the TWA deal? You see we employees had no input thats my point. You direct your misplaced anger at those who are most like you.

This misdirected and irrational anger that is so prevalent among AAers is rife with falsehood and revisionist history. Man I know your too smart to really belive the lies about this buyout/intergation being anybodys wish but those in upper management. What could have been or should have been simply doesnt matter. We have what we have until the next contract.Thats when the **** will really hit the fan. This is the calm before the storm.[:bigsmile:]

 

[dogdriver]

Tools,

Are you afraid of the truth? It really doesn't matter how many times I read B.S. It still remains B.S.

 

[bagsmasher]

Tools,
Good Kungfu humor. But the ones who snatch the pebble from your hand will be the system protected AAer's who bump into MCIE.
I have no anger towards fellow workers. I place the blame squarely on Carty for saying he wants to create a "culture" at AA, then embarking on the largest airline buyout ever. (Notice I didn't say "merger". No real AAer ever does.)
Secondly, I place blame on the TWU for not being able to protect it's membership. They changed contract language specifically for this purpose, yet they left it so vague, that Mr. Kasher could interpret his way around it.
I would have to say that mostly I blame the TWU. They are paid to protect us, and all along they told us not to worry, TWAer's will get 4-10-01 occupational. They told us Mr. Kasher had to take our contract into account when he issues his ruling. Even after the award they assured us that LLCer's had 4-10-01 for reduction in force. Well I've got to tell you, there are many very upset with the TWU right now. There is not even a slim chance Rick Rodriguize will be re-elected to president of Local 512. At MCI our Station Chairman and several stewards resigned in disgust after Kasher's award. There are several, including myself that will never vote YES to another TWU contract proposal. The same may be true for the TWAer's as they may view the TWU as trying to screw them. You are right, things are not good, and it may hit the fan at the next contract.

 

[TOOLS]

Bags... Just look to the 213 mechanics that are still on furlow at MCIE. All AA mechanics in TUL and DAL/AFW where recalled in late spring to early summer. The majority of these mechanics have no prospect of returning to work until the 1st quarter 2003. Lets face it these people have taken the layoff so AA could send MCIE work to Tulsa and Dallas as protection for those bases employees.You might get all giddy and say this is how it should be but for those that lost their job this is a wound. [(]

 

[bagsmasher]

TOOLS writes:
"All bargining unit employees will some day have to join in some majority decision. The divisions that currently exist must be placated for the unions to have any positive direction in the future. Sadly this wound (seniority integration)is still deep and bloody with a poor prognosis"


Could you please point to the exact location of your "wound"? I'm sorry, but I don't see any wounds at MCIE. It's the AAer's that have been "wounded" by having TWAer's who should have been on the street right now, magically appear ahead of them on the seniority list.

 

[MiAAmi]

You guys have to take responsibility for agreeing to arbitration to begin with.

 

[Senor Pelon]

At least the TWU took the right path to settle the seniority issue. Let an arbitrator listen to all the parties involved and he and only he could come to a fair decision. Contrary to bagsmasher's believe, Mr. Kasher is an impartial party who listened to the arguments presented from both sides and made a ruling that was fair and equitable.

 

[MrMarky]

Hi MiAAmi,

With all due respect and I'm not trying to flame you here, but I noticed on another thread you are worried about "forced transfers" of F/A's.

What do you think already happened to those former TWA F/A's at JFK who are still lucky enough to be on the payroll? And that's unfortunately very few of them because their own union, the APFA, to whom they now pay dues for representation, refuses to negotiate a simple little side letter which would save some of their jobs without harming any native AA F/A's.

While some AAer's may worry about forced transfers, many, many former TWA AAer's have already been subjected to "forced furloughs" in dramatically disproportionate numbers. I know that isn't your fault but it is a reality for them. I would really like to encourage you and some of your colleagues to demand that the union you ALL belong to, step up to the plate and do something to help your suffering members. The union gladly stapled them, and I understand your rationale about that, and they gladly welcomed them into the ranks of membership, but I don't see them doing anything to help those who have been victimized by the deep cuts the company has made in it's efforts to cut costs and restore profitability.

If the shoe were on the other foot I think you would see them rising to junior AA F/A's defense and insisting the union do what is within its power to do to help them, because they've been there before more than once and know what its like.

It's time to put the integration issue to bed because it's over and done with and nothing is going to change it. But now, you are all AA APFA members and it would be a really positive and healing gesture to show some solidarity with your newer, fellow employees. I know this isn't your personal responsibility, but it is your collective responsibility and now that the chips are down, it would not only be the morally correct thing to do, but strategically it will pay off in droves for you guys down the road.

Just my thoughts. Sorry for butting in.

Take care,

mAArky

 

[Senor Pelon]

What part of the statement you don't agree?

 

[MiAAmi]

----------------
On 9/3/2002 3:23:24 PM

At least the TWU took the right path to settle the seniority issue. Let an arbitrator listen to all the parties involved and he and only he could come to a fair decision. Contrary to bagsmasher's believe, Mr. Kasher is an impartial party who listened to the arguments presented from both sides and made a ruling that was fair and equitable.
----------------

I don't totally agree with this statement either

 

[MissAAmerican]

----------------
On 9/3/2002 7:12:04 PM

And that's unfortunately very few of them because their own union, the APFA, to whom they now pay dues for representation, refuses to negotiate a simple little side letter which would save some of their jobs without harming any native AA F/A's.

I would really like to encourage you and some of your colleagues to demand that the union you ALL belong to, step up to the plate and do something to help your suffering members. but I don't see them doing anything to help those who have been victimized by the deep cuts the company has made in it's efforts to cut costs and restore profitability.

Just my thoughts. Sorry for butting in.

Take care,

mAArky
----------------
[/quote

Mr.Marky,

With all due respect to you sir, where do you get your information? The APFA is NOT refusing to negotiate that little side letter. Not that I would expect you to know this, but it's in the making right now to call a BOD meeting and discuss this very thing and act on it. I hope it goes through, it will be a step in the right direction to help everyone involved.

 

[MrMarky]

MissAAmerican--

Thanks for the update. I hope your information is correct. Perhaps Mikey knows more.

I got my information from several postings which have appeared on this board over the last couple of weeks from people who have a reputation for being very credible.

Anyway, your information is very encouraging and I hope it turns out to be the result.

Take care,

mAArky