To Usa320pilot

[mweiss]

If you, me or even US320Pilot walked out the door or dropped dead tomorrow, the company woulnd't even remember we ever worked here.

Not to be crass, but why should they? What do each of you contribute that is unique? This is an important question, because it's the uniqueness that generates remembrance.

The collective bargaining agreements guarantee that nobody is unique. Everything is based on hire date.

There's nothing inherently wrong with this, but this is the tradeoff. You gain collective bargaining at the expense of unique recognition.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Mweiss:

I fully understand the Dell & Home Depot business model. The primary reason these two companies are successful is that they have learned how to cut distribution expense so they can offer a quality product at a lower price.

Isn't that what the LCC's have done?

The challenge for US Airways and its employees, who are some of the best employees in the business, is to figure out a way with management to reduce our cost of distribution to offer fares the customer is willing to pay.

Separately, I agree with your comments about union employees not being unique -- as well as easily replaced, especially in today's environment.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[PITbull]

USA320pilot,

I don't know if you read USA Today business section yesterday, July 14. The LCC who have been doing well are now facing labor cost increases.

Folks want a raise.

That leaves the legacy and LCC converging with these pay rates to something in the middle. With the exception of SW, who will be the highest paid in the industry with all their union groups.

You need to read this. We will all be competing with the same wages and labor cost. Then what?

I guess the airlines will than have to learn to operate their airline. There can be no more excuses for the "excuse kings" of the industry.

You need to pay attention more to the operation. We are losing our customer base because the company is not focusing on the customer. They are focused on the perceived competition and labor's pocket book.

 

[PITbull]

Not to be crass, but why should they? What do each of you contribute that is unique? This is an important question, because it's the uniqueness that generates remembrance.

The collective bargaining agreements guarantee that nobody is unique. Everything is based on hire date.

There's nothing inherently wrong with this, but this is the tradeoff. You gain collective bargaining at the expense of unique recognition.

Mweiss,

Trust that company's don't remember managers either who drop dead. Whether your union or non, everyone is replaceable, and no one is perceived as "special".

NONE!

 

[N924PS]

USA320PILOT

Enough is enough. The company should have been ecstatic with the proposal the ALPA Negotiating Committee presented. The company's counter offer was another slap in the face from Glass and Co.

Until U management can offer something more substantial than "Cut Labor Costs" as part of a going forward plan I don't think many employees would vote yes on further concessions. And yes, the ramifications of a NO vote are well known.


What USAirways needs to compete is:

-Committed Leadership With A Desire to Operate An Airline as a Going Concern

-Rational Fare Structure

-Improve Employee Morale by Recoginizing Labor is An Asset Not a Liability

-Phix Philly Phactor- No Excuses

-Rationalize Route System-Including Flying USAirways Customers on USAirways Aircraft To Places They Really Want To Go: AUS SAT ONT OAK SJC SMF PDX RNO to name a few

-Customer Service Should Be The Number One Priority (After Safety of course)



Just about all the U employees I come in contact with are resigned to the thought that U management is bent on breaking labor to the bone in CH 11 revisited. Why even bother with this time/money consuming charade and simply get on with it.

 

[N924PS]

USA320pilot,

I don't know if you read USA Today business section yesterday, July 14. The LCC who have been doing well are now facing labor cost increases.

Folks want a raise.

That leaves the legacy and LCC converging with these pay rates to something in the middle. With the exception of SW, who will be the highest paid in the industry with all their union groups.

You need to read this. We will all be competing with the same wages and labor cost. Then what?

I guess the airlines will than have to learn to operate their airline. There can be no more excuses for the "excuse kings" of the industry.

You need to pay attention more to the operation. We are losing our customer base because the company is not focusing on the customer. They are focused on the perceived competition and labor's pocket book.

Well said PitBull!

 

[cavalier]

700UW:

It’s not up to me to decide what the market dictates for a cost competitive employee, whether it’s a Technician, Salesman, Customer Service Rep, Accountant, Mechanic, Pilot, or any other employee. It’s not my fault that a LCC employee is willing to work for less than a legacy counterpart and I do not like the fact that Doc, Cav, you, or I have to experience the network carrier industry restructuring.

But since you “chimmed inâ€, let me ask you a couple of questions. I want to know if you think its right that the pilots were the only employee group to meet the previous two cost-cut targets and to have their pension terminated. Is that fair? Moreover, the pilots represent about 10% of the employees, 30% of the total labor expense, and took more than 60% of the total cuts during the prior to givebacks. Is that fair?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Sorry can’t help myself on this one!


FAIR, hell yes and damn right it’s fair! Considering the fact even with all the hits your group took you’ll still be way better off than any other single work group on the property, all the way around. Don’t cry poor captain when everyone else KNOWS what that term really means. Even making way less, you still make WAY more. You kill me, and thank GOD not literality that is.

 

[mweiss]

I fully understand the Dell ... business model.

Do you? If so, why did you point to labor costs as the reason for their success?

...they have learned how to cut distribution expense so they can offer a quality product at a lower price.

Dell doesn't have especially low prices, but they have a reputation for quality and solid customer service (though their brief CS offshoring experiment hurt that). They do, however, have the lowest supply chain costs in the industry.

Isn't that what the LCC's have done?

No. LCCs aren't selling products; they're selling services. As a result, supply chain management is much less important than operations management. Yes, one can draw analogies between the two, but that doesn't make them the same.

 

[mweiss]

Trust that company's don't remember managers either who drop dead. Whether your union or non, everyone is replaceable, and no one is perceived as "special".

Not universally true. I worked with some people who were very much missed after their departures.

Cronyism reduces the unique value proposition, and companies that keep it under control do a much better job cultivating "special" employees.

Collective bargaining guarantees that employees aren't treated as unique, though it gives a return through a reduction in uncertainty. Which is more important depends on a number of factors, including self-worth, risk aversion, and the skill set required in a job.

 

[PITbull]

Not universally true. I worked with some people who were very much missed after their departures.

Cronyism reduces the unique value proposition, and companies that keep it under control do a much better job cultivating "special" employees.

Collective bargaining guarantees that employees aren't treated as unique, though it gives a return through a reduction in uncertainty. Which is more important depends on a number of factors, including self-worth, risk aversion, and the skill set required in a job.

mweiss,

Funny, but your folks you remember are not infamous, cause Idon't know them or have ever heard of them or their reputations.

But, now that you brought up your personal experience, I too, can name unionized leaders in my business, my airline and others that are remembered, still honored at our functions, and are no longer actively working. Many employees in their place of business can name folks union and non that are long remembered. But we are talking infamous.

And your point is what again????? Mine was it doesn't matter if your union or not, all is replacable and not exceptional or unique. There will always be someone better, smarter, quicker, more efficient, etc..

 

[mweiss]

Funny, but your folks you remember are not infamous, cause I don't know them or have ever heard of them or their reputations.

Well, aside from not having named any names 😉 (I'm not going public with who my past employers have been), we certainly travel in different circles, both literally and figuratively. It's enough that they have solid reputations within their fields; they don't have to be household names.

But, now that you brought up your personal experience, I too, can name unionized leaders in my business, my airline and others that are remembered, still honored at our functions, and are no longer actively working.

They are remembered not because they were unionized, but because they were elected leaders. Big difference. I'm talking about FAs, not FAs who became reps.

And your point is what again?????

That collective bargaining submerges the individual in exchange for more bargaining power. The price is the perceived uniqueness by one's employer.

Mine was it doesn't matter if your union or not, all is replacable and not exceptional or unique.

Replaceable? Sure. Exceptional or unique appears among union and nonunion alike, but only nonunion can be recognized by their employers for having the exceptional or unique.

There will always be someone better, smarter, quicker, more efficient, etc..

Well, obviously not. Someone has to be the best, smartes, quickest, or most efficient, by definition. The continuum has to include everyone, and its borders are defined by the scope of humanity. But, statistically speaking, it is unlikely that any of us is the best in the world at anything. Being missed is not about being the best; it's about being several standard deviations above the mean...say, three or more.

 

[PITbull]

Just FYI....Union Reps in our business ARE flight attendants....

 

[mweiss]

Just FYI....Union Reps in our business ARE flight attendants....

Not the point. Teddy Xidas was not hired by US Airways to be a union rep. She was hired to be a flight attendant. In that role, she is no different from any other FA with comparable seniority. This is by design. You know this.

 

[tadjr]

What we are talking about is forced overtime for the pilot group to make up the difference. However, during the past two concessions every employee on the property, except salaried employees and the pilots, could have worked overtime and increased their gross pay. In fact, with the new pay cuts that will still exist for the IAM, CWA, and other employee groups, if they desire.

We've gotten forced overtime too to keep our pay up. Every night when there are delays we are forced to stay and deal with misconx and canx flight after canx flight.
Cut to 20 hours a week from full time, scraping hours for people who need off.
Overtime. Whats that? I've signed up all last week and wasnt called once. THEY ARE NOT COVERING SICK CALLS, or are doing so on a very limited basis. Its real easy to say sign up for ot and you'll make the same as before. Its another matter to actually be one of the few to get some. :down: All of the extra hours I've picked up this week has been "blood money" dealing with a problem flight (2 nights of PHL and 1 night of a mech and eventual cancellation). I'll take it, dont get me wrong, but its not as easy as you make it sound.
And to answer all your other questions. Yes.

 

[700UW]

Like I said 320pilot.

You still have not answered the question.

How low can you go?

And I will not answer any of your questions till the question that has started this thread is answered.

And I believe Cavalier has hit the nail on the head.