TO ALL EAST PILOTS II

[BoeingBoy]

ALPA just happened to get an arbitrator that did not take the time to evaluate all sides and create a balance.

The East merger committee didn't "just happen" to get this arbitrator, they agreed to him being the arbitrator (and knew his track record wasn't DOH)....

Jim

 

[PITbull]

The East merger committee didn't "just happen" to get this arbitrator, they agreed to him being the arbitrator (and knew his track record wasn't DOH)....

Jim

Well, BoeingBoy if you say this is the case, then the entire MEC needs to be "recalled" and voted out. There also needs a provision to ensure that this arbitrator is never used for any labor group at USAirways or in the airline industry. Every national group needs a "black ball" list. Put this guy out of business by putting his name out there everywhere.

ARBITRATOR NICOLAU :down: :down:

 

[Walmartgreeter]

[ Well, BoeingBoy if you say this is the case, then the entire MEC needs to be "recalled" and voted out.

Even if it was not the entire MEC that would have picked the Merger Committee?


There also needs a provision to ensure that this arbitrator is never used for any labor group at USAirways or in the airline industry.

Like I said before, this was a burning bag of s....t thrown on ALPA's doorstep by a disgruntled old man who never met an airline pilot he liked. He is done, old and done. He will never arbitrate another airline deal.

Every national group needs a "black ball" list. Put this guy out of business by putting his name out there everywhere.
[/quote]

[b]See above, no need for a black ball...the only ones with those are 16 year active U East pilots put behind West pilots hired AFTER THE MERGER ANNOUNCEMENT.
Later, Greeter.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well, BoeingBoy if you say this is the case, then the entire MEC needs to be "recalled" and voted out.

As you probably know, the arbitrator is selected from a list of those available by the alternate strike method - the two sides take turns striking names from the list till one is left.

And it was the merger committee who exercised the East "strikes" to select the arbitrator, not the MEC. In theory, under ALPA merger policy, the merger committee is autonomous once selected. I'm not sure that was completely the case on the East side (and no idea about the West side).

Jim

 

[PITbull]

[ Well, BoeingBoy if you say this is the case, then the entire MEC needs to be "recalled" and voted out.

Even if it was not the entire MEC that picked the Merger Committee?
There also needs a provision to ensure that this arbitrator is never used for any labor group at USAirways or in the airline industry.

Like I said before, this was a burning bag of s....t thrown on ALPA's doorstep by a disgruntled old man who never met an airline pilot he liked. He is done, old and done. He will never arbitrate another airline deal.

Every national group needs a "black ball" list. Put this guy out of business by putting his name out there everywhere.
[b]See above, no need for a black ball...the only ones with those are 16 year active U East pilots put behind West pilots hired AFTER THE MERGER ANNOUNCEMENT.
Later, Greeter.

I think those MEC members including all the members of the "merger committee" that did not do their home work or care to listen to what this Arbitrator Nicolau's track record is...should all be exposed and pulled out of office asap by their members.

This should be the very first piece to expose... as part of the process of "remedy" such a huge momumental life-altering issue.

 

[Junebug172]

Junebug: you really are an arogant a*shole.

I bet you're the type of guy that would cross the picket line if a stike were to occur.

I said it once, and I'll say it again. Your finacial situation was not good. LIke he said, Luth & Seabury Group WOULD have pumped money into US AWA was headed to Chapter 7 by november 2005. US would have trimmed more of its fleet, but would have stayed afoat.

P.S. We got so many investors for the merger because of the lucrative east flying. Investors saw what the east was bringing to the table

Christ, another moron.

Oh well.

I'd never cross a picket line, but I know of at least one east guy who specifically stated on this board that he would.

And keep dreaming about your financial situation. Ask your MC?

And the investors saw what Parker was bringing to the table - the ability to run a company.

Hey, but if that little fantasy keeps you going, the keep dreaming.

Hey June,

Go for it dude. Keep spreading the bile and venom and it makes you no better that the folks in the East you are so critical of.

Regardless of uniform or position in the company arrogamce is unbecoming.

Now when Jerry Glass gets done bending over your divided pilot group and everyone is equally pissed off even if for different reasons, I'll be here as a constant reminder that I told you so.

You won the battle, declare victory, let the other side maintain some dignity and get on the business of improving the airline for yourselves and your customers.

Do you even get who the enemy is here?

i'm just dishing back what they're dishing out. And as for the arrogance being unbecoming - we were saying that about the east when this whole process started.

And I'm not declaring anything. If you bothered to read this board when this all went down - the threats, the name-calling, etc. you'd see who intiated this crap.

Life sucks, but we're not their punching bags.

EastUS

Ok Little Sis..what happens if you have to eventually forsake more than 5%?...Is it time for "war" then? How about if it was more like ALL your seniority...period/done/dead. Can you even START to get some clue of how the east currently feels about those of ours with 16-20 years?

How is you getting stuck at a shitty airline my fault. You hitched your career to the wrong wagon and now wanted to make up for everything at my expense. Uh uh.

That's amongst the most ignorant and clueless statements you've yet made. The "evil easties" have been the subjects of more broken promises than you've candles on all your combined birthday cakes.

I sure as hell didn't make any promises to you. Why don't you take it up with Wolf, Gangwal, and Lakefield?

"I've given my 5% and that's all I'll give." Youthfull self indulgence and Fantasyland at it's best. Stick around for a few years..assuming that this place stays in business/etc...you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Lots of talk so far and little else.

Unsolicited Advice = Seriously, and without any smartazzed intention, nor the tiniest bit of bad will: Were I at your age range and experience, and just starting out...I'd seriously be applying to Fed Ex/UPS/Southwest (although SWest will have some issues within 2-5 years tops). Cargo's going be hauled indefinately, and those flying it will be the last to suffer from industry tantrums and turmoil.

Thanks Granny, but I like Phoenix.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Pitbull...seems easy to Monday morning quarterback.. the Merger Committee actually, all said and done, did a hell of a job. That can also be said of the West side.

To repeat...if this were a Baseball arbitration, the result would have been the same as the arbitrator saying certain players could never take the field...a result not expected by any intelligent member of either side in the process.

The West guys did a great job in their case. The East guys did also. This decision is the result of a failed individual, a shell of man who let emotion and revenge, or whatever, enter his decision. How, in all that is logical, could a guy hired for 2 months go ahead of a guy on the East with 16 years of ACTIVE service.

The East Merger Committe presented a great case. You cannot fight insanity. That will be the job of ALPA National..as the results do not meet ALPA standards.

I do not fault the East, West...only the disgusting logic, or lack thereof, from someone who must hate this profession. Perhaps a lifelong pilot wantabee?

Greeter.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Nicolau a lifelong pilot wannabee? Thats a good one.

 

[smoot4208]

Junebug

"the investors saw what Parker was bringing to the table - the ability to run a company".

we have seen an outstanding job from him in the last 18 months. Until Parker learns how to run a BIG airline, not the old smaller sized AWA we will be in the hole

SInce the merger:

1. the anouncement of the merger brought high morale BACK
to employees....He somehow managed to drop it back done
to an all time low

2. cashing in stock options for $$$milions.

3. Taken away first class seats....(Business travelers are
the stronghold for the east, unlike vacationers on the
AWA)

4. Detirred cutomers away...For Good

5. DUI

He really brought some good qualities to the table....NOT!
The investors saw the good in the east, all they liked from AWA was your price structure, (the only thing US was missing).

 

[ClueByFour]

The West guys did a great job in their case. The East guys did also. This decision is the result of a failed individual, a shell of man who let emotion and revenge, or whatever, enter his decision. How, in all that is logical, could a guy hired for 2 months go ahead of a guy on the East with 16 years of ACTIVE service.

Those two individuals were probably 737 F/Os. The guy from the west came from the company that was not bankrupt.

As a practical matter, his 16 years would only get him an F/O slot on the smallest equipment with a twice bankrupt airline. The guy hired new at HP could hold the same equipment with his two months at (what was then) a growing airline with decent financials.

It's logical, just not to most of the East pilots (who, thru no fault of their own, picked the wrong horse over the years).

Where the East pilots got jacked was not capturing the east attrition. I believe (having read the decision) that had the East group not insisted upon DOH (or LOS, it's functionally the same thing) that they would have captured that attrition.

But to suggest that the situation is not logical because a 16 year guy is placed near (or even below) a 2 month guy completely ignores the fact that the 16 year old guy had, to be quite frank, picked the weaker (and bankrupt) airline.

In the real world, this is how things generally work (a measurement of the worth of someone's years of service in terms of the health of the company they work for).

 

[CactusFlyr]

But to suggest that the situation is not logical because a 16 year guy is placed near (or even below) a 2 month guy completely ignores the fact that the 16 year old guy had, to be quite frank, picked the weaker (and bankrupt) airline.

In the real world, this is how things generally work (a measurement of the worth of someone's years of service in terms of the health of the company they work for).

Could not have said this any better, bravo.

Even if it was not the entire MEC that picked the Merger Committee?
There also needs a provision to ensure that this arbitrator is never used for any labor group at USAirways or in the airline industry.

Like I said before, this was a burning bag of s....t thrown on ALPA's doorstep by a disgruntled old man who never met an airline pilot he liked. He is done, old and done. He will never arbitrate another airline deal.

Every national group needs a "black ball" list. Put this guy out of business by putting his name out there everywhere.
See above, no need for a black ball...the only ones with those are 16 year active U East pilots put behind West pilots hired AFTER THE MERGER ANNOUNCEMENT.
Later, Greeter.
[/quote]

WOW, some of you eats guys are just looking anywhere to place the "blame" for this, I suggest you look in the mirror.

 

[EastUS]

"Christ, another moron."

"Oh well."

"And the investors saw what Parker was bringing to the table - the ability to run a company."

"Hey, but if that little fantasy keeps you going, the keep dreaming"

 

[nycbusdriver]

Kinda makes you wonder - those investors weren't to be seen before the merger was announced, even though that lucrative east flying was there. Wonder why......

Jim

ps - notice I said investors, not regionals looking for something in return for their money.

Oh. So the "investors" that pumped in all the money to actually make the merger take place are NOT looking for a return on their money?

Is that how it works?

Real investors, unlike greedy regionals, don't look for a return on their money?

Would you like to invest in some stock I have?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Oh. So the "investors" that pumped in all the money to actually make the merger take place are NOT looking for a return on their money?

Of course they thought they'd make money. What they were not doing is using their investment as leverage to get what they really wanted - a home for a bunch of 50-seat RJ's in the case of Air Wisconsin and E170's plus expensive slots at DCA/LGA with Republic.

In other words, the money offered by Air Wisconsin and Republic was just the price of admission for access to the goodies they wanted. No one was writing checks solely because they thought US was a good investment.

Until after the merger announcement.

Suddenly people were interested in US purely as an investment. So much so, that Republic's "admission" payment was turned down (but they still got what they were willing to pay the admission price to gain access to).

See the difference now....

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

Of course they thought they'd make money. What they were not doing is using their investment as leverage to get what they really wanted - a home for a bunch of 50-seat RJ's in the case of Air Wisconsin and E170's plus expensive slots at DCA/LGA with Republic.

In other words, the money offered by Air Wisconsin and Republic was just the price of admission for access to the goodies they wanted. No one was writing checks solely because they thought US was a good investment.

Until after the merger announcement.

Suddenly people were interested in US purely as an investment. So much so, that Republic's "admission" payment was turned down (but they still got what they were willing to pay the admission price to gain access to).

See the difference now....

Jim

Hmmm. Quibbling.