TO ALL EAST PILOTS II

[Junebug172]

Junebug: A Fact you should know!

Parker lied about how much time AWA had left to survive!

Its a given fact that AWA would have ben gone BEFORE US would have, so technically, we saved your a*s

I was wondering when the lurkers were going to rear their ugly heads.

Anyway - ignored!

All of 2 years, you must be proud! Congrats. Maybe something to tell your illigetimate kids about!
I'm sorry, I don't speak retardese, could you rephrase it on a college level? Oh that's right, you work for awa, no college required!
Thanks, I'll remember that when I need someone to wash my car and mow my grass!

Ah, scud and East, I am beginning to tire of the both of you.

Fact is, I'm satisfied with the decision as it is quite fair. I've lost 5% in my relative seniority, but am willing to accept that for the good of this pilot group (both east and West).

Keep working through your anger, this will eventually pass.

 

[EastUS]

"Ah, scud and East, I am beginning to tire of the both of you."

Works fine for me...I was already having second thoughts about signing your final adoption papers.

"Fact is, I'm satisfied with the decision as it is quite fair."

Fact is: what you're satisfied with doesn't mean anything as to what's going on.

"I've lost 5% in my relative seniority, but am willing to accept that for the good of this pilot group (both east and West)."

That's truly generous of you..and it must be a severe blow to potentially sacrifice 5% of your "seniority", after a long and illustrious "career" of..what was it again? = Two whole years so far? I simply cannot imagine what utter anguish you must feel about the supposed 5%.

"Keep working through your anger, this will eventually pass."

Everything, all our lives, even our very planet "will eventually pass" young lady..it's what happens along the way that makes things interesting.

 

[Junebug172]

EastUS Wrote:

"Works fine for me...I was already having second thoughts about signing your final adoption papers."

Don't feel too badly for dumping me, Angela Jolie has already drawn up new papers. Looks like I'll be OK!

"Fact is: what you're satisfied with doesn't mean anything as to what's going on."

Fact is: I'm content with what is going on, you're not.

"That's truly generous of you..and it must be a severe blow to potentially sacrifice 5% of your "seniority", after a long and illustrious "career" of..what was it again? = Two whole years so far? I simply cannot imagine what utter anguish you must feel about the supposed 5%.

No "potential" sacrifice but a solid 5% loss. Its a cold hard fact that I've learned to accept. I was upset like you are now, but I blamed no one.

"Everything, all our lives, even our very planet "will eventually pass" young lady..it's what happens along the way that makes things interesting."

Ah puddin', you're a philosopher and romantic all in one.

 

[EastUS]

"Fact is: I'm content with what is going on, you're not."

Being "content" in this case simply illustrates that you're currently at an age wherein the future issues arising for the entire industry, and yourself as well, from this "Award" are unimaginable to you.

"No "potential" sacrifice but a solid 5% loss. Its a cold hard fact that I've learned to accept."

I'm glad that your so accepting of such severe misfortune. Understand that virtually all out east have seen rather larger bumps in the road over the course of many years. Further understand that I don't still "need" this job, nor am I personally going to suffer from the "Award".

Envision a near or far future time, if you can...when another merger occurs and your now "cold hard" 5% loss becomes a light joke as you're stapled below sufficient numbers to make any/all of your "career expectations" a total travesty. Now try and understand the feelings of our people with 16-20 years, and those of us who actually care about them. This is hardly likely to be the last act of "consolidation" within the industry. This "Award" now means that anyone's future "seniority"/years of service/etc means NOTHING.

You arrogantly posted to another pilot, presumbably with many years more experience:

"All I know is that I'm more than likely senior to you."

"Get over it."

"And the only toast I smelled that was burning was yours."

Umm..what happened to the "cold hard" bit about the 5%?

"Move on."

"And as for the FBO, I'll be glad to knock off a few bucks on the hourly rate so that you can keep your currency"

Do save that precious little diatribe in your memory banks for times to come that your youth currently prevents you from even imagining...such as becoming "junior" to someone that's perhaps part of a commuter that gets absorbed. Perhaps if you stay in this business long enough...it may be someone just now being born.

"Ah puddin', you're a philosopher and romantic all in one."

Such makes for a better sense of humour during troubled times.

Good luck with Angie....there's zero warranty for your, or anyone's airline "career".

 

[Junebug172]

"Good luck with Angie....there's zero warranty for your, or anyone's airline "career"."

See, you understand it. Nobody promised anyone anything.

No one promised me I wouldn't lose 5% in my relative seniority, but I did. Like I've said before, its a loss I've accepted and I've worked through my S.A.R.A issues. No you have to too.

I like this post so I'll put it up again for you to read in case you missed it:

PILOT
5/1/2005

Dave Odell
Most junior active pilot @ AWA. On reserve on the B737.

5/1/2007
Still the most junior reserve pilot on the B737.

5/1/2005
Dean Colello
Furloughed. Little to no prospect of recall.

5/1/2007
Recalled with at least 300 pilots junior to him. Flies the B767 to Europe.

5/1/2005
Randy McNerlin
#1 pilot at AWA. Nobody senior to him can come to PHX.

5/1/2007
#518 pilot at US Airways. No protection against pilots senior to him coming to PHX.

Like many here we are sick and tired of your constant crying like you got hurt. Accept what we have and move on.

Mamma Jolie says, "Hi!"

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Deleted

 

[Junebug172]

I did look "inside" the numbers. And the fact is that AWA kept separate books after the merger was announced and its a fact that AWA would never have to worry about liquidity. AWA made it to the turnaround that started at the end of 2005.

Fact is, as well, that AAA was about to be liquidated. When it all went down in September, AAA was down to 5 days of cash (please check this with your MC) and would not have made it into October (which is why Parker moved everything up - to keep AAA from liquidating before the papers were signed).

Anyhoo, the only reason the creditor allowed AAA's liquidity to fall below the 30 day point was because of the merger. Up until that point, AAA could not find captial based on a business plan for a stand-alone AAA. So, had it not been for Parker accepting the buyer position, AAA would have started returning planes and engines in late August.

Lakefield NEEDED Parker to put a business plan in front of the creditors. Pretty one-sided if you ask me. And with the wasy the industry has turned around, I know I'd still be here today if we were flying as AWA.

And using your marriage analogy just imagine AAA was a really ugly daughter that a dad was trying to marry off. By going out and raising cash, he paid someone off to her off his hands.

And if you still want to maintain the position that we were on the way to bankruptcy, fine. But bankruptcy (AWA) and liquidation (AAA) are two different things. Look and NWA, UAL, and DAL.

Ask some of our pilots about wage cuts, furloughs, and bankruptcies. We've got guys here from Eastern, National, TWA, and just about anywhere else you can think off. They've all give in bankruptcy. And, none have tasted the big money like the east did during the early part of this decade. We've got lots of TWA guys here that would beg to differ with that statement so spare me with this idiocy.

And honestly, I used to have empathy, but that's all gone now. I had nothing to do with their lives at AAA and refuse to make them feel any better at the expense of any more of my seniority. I've given my 5% and that's all I'll give.

And as for endearig myself to the east, please. I could coddle them and tell them how badly I feel for them, but some are just going to be pricks no matter what.

Oh well.

Its done. We've moved on in the West. They need to focus on your advice and focus on a new contract (ya right).

 

[EastUS]

"......any more of my seniority. I've given my 5% and that's all I'll give."


WOW!!!...The first/last honest sentiment I've heard that instantly puts things in perspective...assuming that some individuals are actually capable of having any perspective.

"....my seniority. I've given my 5% and that's all I'll give."

5 Whole percent?..and after a 2 year "career"?

Ok Little Sis..what happens if you have to eventually forsake more than 5%?...Is it time for "war" then? How about if it was more like ALL your seniority...period/done/dead. Can you even START to get some clue of how the east currently feels about those of ours with 16-20 years?

"See, you understand it. Nobody promised anyone anything"

That's amongst the most ignorant and clueless statements you've yet made. The "evil easties" have been the subjects of more broken promises than you've candles on all your combined birthday cakes.

"I've given my 5% and that's all I'll give." Youthfull self indulgence and Fantasyland at it's best. Stick around for a few years..assuming that this place stays in business/etc...you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Unsolicited Advice = Seriously, and without any smartazzed intention, nor the tiniest bit of bad will: Were I at your age range and experience, and just starting out...I'd seriously be applying to Fed Ex/UPS/Southwest (although SWest will have some issues within 2-5 years tops). Cargo's going be hauled indefinately, and those flying it will be the last to suffer from industry tantrums and turmoil.

 

[EastUS]

"Regardless of uniform or position in the company arrogamce is unbecoming."

Spot on Piney...As pridefull a creature as I sadly am...it's innapropriate to have ANY nest of crows making noise, most especially when the issue of the continuance of the corporation's at stake.

"Now when Jerry Glass gets done bending over your divided pilot group and everyone is equally pissed off even if for different reasons,"

That such will happen with this clear disunity of east/west is a given.

"Do you even get who the enemy is here?"

They will..in time.

PS Piney: Off Topic totally. I'd love to hear more about your Ardennes tour. If there's some link available that would be suitable...I'm reluctant to show email/etc here, as it's become a nyaah nyaah fest hereabouts. I never had any chance to tour the areas of my Dad's experiences..other than to look down, from miles above, on some very inhospitable and freezing ocean. Likewise; my view of Normandy and the principle battle theater has been that of only an aerial "tourist".

 

[smoot4208]

Junebug: you really are an arogant a*shole.

I bet you're the type of guy that would cross the picket line if a stike were to occur.

I said it once, and I'll say it again. Your finacial situation was not good. LIke he said, Luth & Seabury Group WOULD have pumped money into US AWA was headed to Chapter 7 by november 2005. US would have trimmed more of its fleet, but would have stayed afoat.

P.S. We got so many investors for the merger because of the lucrative east flying. Investors saw what the east was bringing to the table

 

[EastUS]

Do you know what unir your Dad was in?

Thanks Piney. My Dad was purely blue-water USN, still up in the North Atlantic at the time, and took no part in the Normandy Invasion. My interest in the area (aside from the usual passion for military history) stems from an uncle who fought in theater there. To my discredit; I do not immediately recall his unit, but will see if the family yet has references. He's long since passed..and my memories of him are from early childhood, when he was teaching my brother and myself the proper ettiquette of the rifle. Getting "anything" out of him depended upon kiddie "charm" and persistence...and he seemed irritated at his younger sis, my Mom for bringing his service up at all. He never referenced going ashore on D-Day, and I believe that he deployed some weeks after the invasion, but saw service in the Bulge, (amd I do remember him looking at Mom without happiness for her bringing that up) as a corporal, and thereafter as a Sgt/rifle squad member to VE day, and susequent occupational duties untill '46.

It's seemingly bizarre..but I've never fully pursued the actual history of the man...he was always "just"..."Uncle Eugene" that had taught me how to shoot.

I'll see what I can find out as per his unit/time in theater/etc. Perhaps I'll personally profit from all this sturm und drang on the site via an impetus to do just that.

PS: Good links...I wish that I had the time free to go.

 

[BoeingBoy]

P.S. We got so many investors for the merger because of the lucrative east flying. Investors saw what the east was bringing to the table

Kinda makes you wonder - those investors weren't to be seen before the merger was announced, even though that lucrative east flying was there. Wonder why......

Jim

ps - notice I said investors, not regionals looking for something in return for their money.

 

[EastUS]

"Kinda makes you wonder - those investors weren't to be seen before the merger was announced, even though that lucrative east flying was there. Wonder why......"

They must all have been waiting with baited breath for the all time/best ever management team in the history of human commercial endeavors...then presiding at AWA, (which was undoubtably destined to become a thriving, and gigantic airline, perhaps the world's biggest and best ever,) to pick up some utter disaster like US.

Get a grip.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nope, just a slick powerpoint showing how all that "synergy" money would come rolling in....

Or you can believe that they would have invested the money anyway, but were too busy arranging their sock drawers when Lakefield/Luth called before the merger announcement.

Jim

 

[PITbull]

And to 320, no wonder why you gave back and never can get elected, the arbitration is legal and binding, no matter what you do all you can do is stall, the West Pilots prevailed, handed you your shorts once again, you should be used to it by now.

You can change unions, you can throw a temper tantrum till your blue in the face, both East and West Agreed to Binding Arbitration which is precedent setting and it will be enacted and there is nothing you can do about it. Your group will back down like it has done every single time since 2002, you know nothing differant.

I hope you are wrong on this 700.

The East cannot agree to this decision. I am not sure if there is anything they can do to change this. I have a belief that there are federal arbitrators that favor the company's position no matter what the union argument is. And there are arbitrators that I believe just don't have the intelligence and insightful skill it takes to mediate an issue like this. It happens with judges as well.

ALPA just happened to get an arbitrator that did not take the time to evaluate all sides and create a balance. ALPA should devise an agenda item attheir next MEC meeting and vote that Nicholau never be used to arbitrate any ALPA MEC grievance in the future...its called "black balling". AFA should remember this and all the unions on the property to never use this arbitrator for any union sytem board grievance. In fact, all the airline unions need to "black ball" this arbitrator wherever applicable.

One example of ensuring that certain outside consultants that we believe are not labor representatives are not used as advisors in any future negotiations AFA USAirways. The MEC voted at the Winter meeting in 2003 to ensure to never use ECLAT airline financial advisors (who also once or twice represented ALPA and AFA in the past) as consultants with our group in the future. It is in the AFA MEC policy and procedures. We had them for concession 1 and 2 and they supported the company position in our view and basically intimadated some of the MEC that our group needed to get to the company's "ask" $$ amount. That was enough for the rest of us to ensure they would never work for our group again. After the ratified agreements, ECLAT went on to hire Doug McKeen to work for them.

That tells you everything.