This Is Embarassing!

[ClueByFour]

The profession is fine for the pilots at AWA, Jet Blue, AirTran, Frontier, Spirit, Independence Air and others, but not for US. This is another fine example of true leadership from the RC4.

[post="187363"][/post]​

Any reason why you left Southwest off that list, or is it because they are both "low cost" and have the #2 (soon to be #1, in all likelihood) paid 737 pilots?

Or, do you only count "low labor cost airlines?" See, a truly low cost airline can have low costs and still compensate it's employees in a fairly decent fashion, provided the airline is managed with some degree of acumen.

I'm going to coin a new term--PMC: "poorly managed carriers."

I am sure you won't respond to this, but I invite a discussion. If you would like, I'll even open another thread for it .

 

[cavalier]

Cavalier: what do you mean "my age"? How old do you think I look?

[post="187369"][/post]​

check out my picture, I look a little rougher and older....

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Interesting picture. I wouldn't wear that outfit to a PTA meeting.

BTW I'm 48...maybe WN ought to advertise that flying on them keeps one looking youthful and refreshed?

And Cx4....I like that espression. Instead of LCCs....Legacy carriers...new entrants.....we can simply refer to airlines that aren't doing so well as PMCs.

 

[cavalier]

Interesting picture. I wouldn't wear that outfit to a PTA meeting.

BTW I'm 48...maybe WN ought to advertise that flying on them keeps one looking youthful and refreshed?

[post="187374"][/post]​

The picture is Sonny Barger, Hell's Angel Leader====http://www.sonnybarger.com/

You look good at 48

I am 53 but no one believes it, I look younger. I will put my real picture up in the near future.

Wow, the moderator has been nice about getting Off Topic.....

 

[PITbull]

ELP,

Now that's a "room with a view"

(I meant your post on page 2).

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Well, very interesting to compare current wages with the cruise line industry. You see, I think airline wages are going into that direction. Right now, the game of management is to make the job as miserable as possible so people will quit. When they quit, they can hire real low wage workers. But, who would want to be a flight attendant for $8.00 a flight hour? Maybe a high school kid, or some foreigner?

Just wait in 10 years airline jobs will be so low paying they will have to import workers from India, Philippines, eastern Europe, basically any breathing human being that can speak English will be actively sought to come work in the U.S. for a the new and improved (?) LCC carriers. This is how the cruise lines do it; wonder how you can possibly take a 7-day cruise for $499? In short, it's because of the cheap labor they import from the countries mentioned earlier. $800 a week is what the average waiter makes on a mass market cruise line like Carnival. That's 16 hour days, 7 days a week, back breaking labor, but it's big money back home. Americans just do not want to work that hard for a paltry sum. Case in point, follow what's going on at Norwegian Cruise Line NCL, they have two American flag based cruise liners and have hired thousands of Americans to work on their ships due to U.S. labor law. Most are Hawaiian kids who thought it would be cool to work on a cruise ship; then they get onboard and find out it's really, really hard. They can't keep these people because they are quitting left and right. And, they are getting MORE pay than what a Phillippino waiter on NCL's non US-flagged vessels. To put it mildly, it's a fiasco beyond epic proportions. NCL has ended up refunding a lot of people's Hawaiian cruises or giving substantial discounts on a future cruise because of the horrible service. This is what I believe is going to happen to the U.S. airline industry. It will be flooded with foreigners in ten years because of the low wages.

 

[autofixer]

Yes...and I remember many of these "gentlemen" from pilot training. I think I'll drive.

 

[ClueByFour]

Yes...and I remember many of these "gentlemen" from pilot training. I think I'll drive.

[post="187400"][/post]​

With the exception of the extraordinary lack of judgement on the part of some DCA and LGA based pilots (almost enough to make me want try try the DL shuttle ), one of the nice things about settling into my comfy seat in the front of any U mainline flight is that the guys (or gals) in the pointy end have been at the craft for a long, long time.

 

[luvn737s]

My Dad, a retired rEAL Capt. made the very same point 25 years ago.

What Freshwater is saying is that pilot wages account for a very small percentage of the ticket price. Even if the whole crew flew pro-bono, the ticket price wouldn't drop an average of $10-$15. In fact if the whole crew cost $1000 for a flight it's only $5.25 per person for a 757.

Funny, folks are willing to pay more for a turkey sandwich on board than for a safe, professional crew.

 

[ClueByFour]

Here is why what Freshwater said is dumb:

I don't tip the subway driver. I don't tip the bus driver.

I do tip the limo driver. I do tip the shuttle bus driver to my hotel.

Why on the latter? Typically, they do something above and beyond their listed duty when getting me to my destination--usually involving stashing my luggage and retreiving it.

A pilot cannot do this for everyone on the plane. It's incumbent upon the airline and the pilot to work that arrangement out. It's basically exposing internal politics to the public at a time when neither the pilots or company can afford to do so.

And how do I determine how to tip a pilot? If we get there? I expect it with the price of my ticket.

If we get there on time? So, he gets tipped for something over which he may or may not have any influence over.

If we get there safely? Again, I expect this every time I buy the ticket.

A tip is quite literally "To Insure Prompt Service." I expect a pilot to get me where I'm going safely.

Now, there have been times when I've had pilots go above and beyond--some of these are only noticeable to those who fly a lot or are pilots themselves--a nice approach in a gusting crosswind for instance--but even that, I expect a guy with an ATP to be able to handle. I've had guys give running commentary via either the PA (or on UA, on channel 9) that legitimately added value to my trip.

Lastly, let's talk about the "professional" angle of being a pilot--Freshwater is nuts if he thinks that even $70k (or whatever the junior guy at U will make after the next 23 point paycut) does not represent a "professional" salary. Now, I suspect he'd launch into the prototypical line about having "spent years flying checks to build time and ratings, and only making the 'big bucks' later in life at a major....." stuff. I don't buy that--ALPA itself created the nasty pay curve that has a guy flying 500 mph twinjet making 18k (regional FO) and the guy flying a 500 mph twinjet making 300k (777 Captain). That's another discussion.

Overall, this was a stupid thing to say, especially now. I expect this from the CS8, or Bronner. Freshwater's done so well to this point, I can only imagine the crap he's taking might be starting to take a toll.

 

[UseYourHead]

Yea, he is the guy many claim is doing the right thing...what a loser. He is an example of why we all would not want to be the member of a union.

He needs to resign, he is a pathetic fool, ruining 28000 families lives.

That is ridiculous. Absolutely shameful. There goes the sympathy, if there was any.

[post="187315"][/post]​

 

[Phoenix]

Well then PITbull please explain it to the great unwashed out here in customer land because based on what I read and I'm pretty good at nuance. To me he sounds like the non consumption end of the horse.

I mean no wonder A320's panties where in such a knot over this guy. I don't even know him and I like to choke the bag of feces.

Just wait until Joe Brancatelli gets hold of this for one of his hachet jobs on Airways.

[post="187340"][/post]​

OK. I'll go real slow. Trent Lott.

Enemies are all around a guy that stands his ground. They lie in wait for anything that they can use against him. He makes a joke. It is taken out of context and twisted by a rag that rivals Dan Blather in their fair and balanced "journalism."

Hey it is all about the truth right? People need to know! Scandal of scandals!

Puleeez. Piney, shame on you for pilling on. You know exactly what is up.

A couple of crafty "journalists" (who would chase ambulances if they were lawyers) decided to play fast and loose with the truth in order to smear a guy. Now you go and cheerlead us like we are a bunch of reactionary, short sighted, rush to judgment, gullible, knuckle-draggers with rocks in both hands just itching to draw blood from someone. (Well, OK. That is the definition of a union. HA!)

The opportunistic exploitative attempt by some marionette is shameful... and very telling. Garland Jones, Pollock, and their best friends could tell that joke a hundred times and the paper wouldn't recognize it as "journalism." But they are in bed already, while Freshwater rebuffed the wooing and demands to talk facts before any kissing starts.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Is smug arrogance only a fault in others?

It is unfortunate how a lack of perspective makes it impossible to understand the point this Captain is making. No, he doesn't intend to squat in the cabin doorway rattling a cup. But if you picture him doing that maybe you will get his point.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

I'll leave it to others to discuss whether his comments were embarrassing or unprofessiona..... but I'll observe that they're illogical and undermine his position. What he's suggesting is revenue sharing: pilots sharing 100% in the ability of the carrier to get butts in seats. So, his members don't need security or benefits or salary...? I could easily see U or some other carrier pegging pilot pay to some independent variable of air travel demand. Of course, C. Freshwater isn't suggesting that. He's suggesting a dependent variable: load factor. Inconsistent rhetoric... he should be more astute.

 

[Phoenix]

Actually I DON'T know Mr. Freshwaters intent! Since we've heard NOTHING from him post article.

[post="187433"][/post]​

No you don't "know." Nor have you apparently any interest in knowing before you are willing to accept the Dan Blather "jounalism" as you beat their drum, hiding behind little phrases like 1) "I know what I read" and 2)"If that is his opinion".

1) "What you read?" Can you not think for yourself or do you eagerly wait for each issue of the Enquirer and the Globe?
2) Like you said you don't know the intent of "his words." (You don't even know if he said it, if things were added to it, or the context.) But you do know that he is the type of person that carpetbaggers love to hate.

Shame on you for piling on when you "know so little." It is too bad, really. I almost started to think better of you.


Respectfully,

Phoenix