This, For The If-you-don't-like-it, Leave Guys

[cavalier]

Here's the deal Captain.... And I didn't even read but your first line. We ALL KNOW what you are preaching, know the score, some even agree, some don't agree but know the true story, we all as individuals have rationalized what the scoop is and live with it in our own way some willing to give yet again some absolutely not, some not sure what to do, point is.... we KNOW we KNOW and your continuous ranting of the same old song just pisses of the average person who reads repetitive posts daily, weekly, yearly, into infinity...



VERSTEHEN Sie?

 

[700UW]

I suspect the majority of the unions will reach new labor accords in the not-so-distant future and those who do not will have to take their chances in front of the bankruptcy court. Then in my opinion the court could order deeper cuts than could have been negotiated before the hearing, therefore, for any union that elects to not participate in the new business plan I suggest its members get their financial house in order to be ready for such eventuality.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

There you go again posting false information and practicing craphouse law.

A judge cannot impose any deeper cuts in an 1114 filing, the judge can only impose the motion put forth before him/her filed by the company and cannot make up his/her own contract and terms.

When are you ever gonna learn?

I suggest you contact Sharon Levine or anyother bankrupcty attorney.

 

[mweiss]

Please tell me why do you honestly care if the employees vote this down or chose not to negotiate?

I just put myself in the shoes of an employee who would be willing to take the concessions rather than look elsewhere. If that employee were to be denied an opportunity because of people who voted no so that they'd have a last chance to "stick it to the man," that'd be a real tragedy.

Now, if there are almost no "yes" votes, that's one thing. But if the vote is really close, then it's a travesty of justice. It'd be the equivalent of letting non-US-citizens vote in an election, since the people who are "no-and-out-the-door" are effectively nonemployees at the time of the balloting.

 

[700UW]

michael,

Give me an honest answer.

If you were an employee and you gave concessions once and then two months later your company came to you and threatened to go out of business unless you give concessions once again, so you give.

Then three months later they either eliminate your pension (after they tell you that the concessions are to save it) or they vendor our your work (airbus after they say they won't and you voted to protect your scope language) and then they come back for me how in all honesty could you ever trust them when they have done thing but lie and be deceitful to you and can't even honor the very contracts they agreed too?

The IAM has given them up to $100 million in cost savings back in March and the company has not acted upon one thing!

You would be a fool.

 

[mweiss]

Which is why I would have left.

 

[700UW]

If you leave you don't get unemployment or the chance of being retrained and maybe some people are staying for the slim chance we might get some leadership that will actually want to run an airline and generate revenue instead of expecting the employees to bank roll it.

 

[mweiss]

Allow me to rephrase. I would have found another job and left.

 

[700UW]

Did you ever think people like working in aviation?

And you never really did answer to the first post.

 

[pitguy]

Michael,

Thanks for the response. It will be very hard for Management to get allot of cooperation considering the past.

 

[funguy2]

Cav, is it US Airways management's fault that costs are rising and yeild is under pressure by new and brash companies?

The short answer is yes. mweiss explained this well.

Either US Airways and its employees adjust or the airline will enter bankruptcy. Will it be Chapter 11 or 7? I do not know, but I believe those who are in denial should quit and let those who want to remain and work at US Airways in this environment do so.

The reality here is, as diogenes stated very well to begin this thread, and I have now mentioned twiuce, is not that simple. People have families to fend for. Other jobs with similar pay scales, are extremely limited, particularly when your experience is 25 years of pushing back airplanes. These skills do not transfer easily into other occupations. While I am sure many folks at US Airways have other skills, the job market is still tight.

While it may sound noble to place yourself on a pedestal and tell other folks to either "join the program or leave", the reality is that they have a right to continue to do their job, as long as they do it well. If a customer service employee is so disgruntled that they are treating passengers poorly, then I am sure the company has avenues to deal with that.

Just because an employee can see the world around himself, and see that the outlook is not pretty, that is no reason why they cannot continue to work hard and do a good job to the end. Quite frankly, that is the type of reputation that US Airways employees currently have, and I would expect no less of them.

USA320Pilot: You need to have a higher opinion of the people you work with. Honestly.

 

[diogenes]

Thank you, funguy2,

Yes, I can confirm the "end-is-near"bunch STILL turns out a good product, and will do so until the day the gates are locked. Far better than the Palace deserves, but on the other hand, the Palace has counted on it.

I am aware of a situation where a group of front-line grunts has a very credible foreshadowing that their end is near, and with record load factors AND short-staffing, is performing superbly.

In the end, it's about integrity.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

I just put myself in the shoes of an employee who would be willing to take the concessions rather than look elsewhere. If that employee were to be denied an opportunity because of people who voted no so that they'd have a last chance to "stick it to the man," that'd be a real tragedy.

Now, if there are almost no "yes" votes, that's one thing. But if the vote is really close, then it's a travesty of justice. It'd be the equivalent of letting non-US-citizens vote in an election, since the people who are "no-and-out-the-door" are effectively nonemployees at the time of the balloting.

You are joking and just trying to stir the pot right?

If it is a close vote and it goes the no's way then it is a travesty of justice that the majority have had their say?

Would that be the same with any vote anywhere for anything? The presidential elections? Well why even have votes? Why let majority rule?

Aww don't worry there won't be any travesties Usairways will just have one of those infamous you were confused revotes.

You know what forget telling employees to vote yes or leave Usairways, how about you take your views on voting and get the heck out of the country!!!

 

[diogenes]

Hello, Michael,

I'll do my best to respond. Side note: How do you get a whole response in a quote, when what you're responding to has quotes in it? I lose the quotes. Other than cut and paste to Word, and toggle back and forth.

1. Change - well, you don't know what can change until you try. And if I read your posts right, I don't think you're a big fan of of crushing dissent, either. And that is the true intent of my way or the highway. Because Hitler did not encourage free thinking, his generals were afraid to wake him, and ask for re-enforcements the morning of D-Day. As a result, Germany lost any chance of turning back the invasion that would destroy them. Fastow would not tolerate being questioned at Enron; now he's being questioned by the DA. Facism is poor government, and poor business practice. In the end, it destroys itself, as everyone is afraid to bear bad news to the king.

2. True, business is not government, but the principles are the same. To surround yourself with yes-men, in government, in business, in your hunt club, is akin to pulling the plug on your early warning radar.

3. I have never accused you of slandering employees, and apologize if you infer I have. Sometimes I am less clear than I intended. We stand on the different side of some issues; notably labor-management relations at U. We stand on the same on some others - it seems we share some political views. I always enjoy the math and analysis, even when I disagree with the interpretation. Sort of the opposite of my-way-or-the-highway.

4. Glad you enjoyed the story. It's always good to put a human face on the numbers.

5. No, it is not an accurate interpretation, otherwise why do a decent job? It would be child's play to half-ass it, and get away with it. Not to mention, bury the company in their own rules and regulations.

A Yes vote brings agents to wages obtainable outside of aviation. While a No vote may result in Chapt 7, it may also result in management actually operating the company, for a change.

 

[USFlyer]

If you were an employee and you gave concessions once and then two months later your company came to you and threatened to go out of business unless you give concessions once again, so you give.

This happened to me and millions of others. However, we weren't asked, we were told we're taking pay cuts, layoffs, etc. Remember, the majority of workers are at will employees and don't need to be asked.

 

[700UW]

This happened to me and millions of others. However, we weren't asked, we were told we're taking pay cuts, layoffs, etc. Remember, the majority of workers are at will employees and don't need to be asked.

And that is your own fault as you made the choice not you work in a union shop.