The twu just spit in your face!

[700UW]

Are you that ignorant?

From 1949 till the merger Stores was part of the class and craft and utility remains.

We negotiated and what we came up with was sent to an outside lawyer, not the IAM international.

I was Utility in 2004 and that is part of the class and craft, is this concept too hard for you to understand that Stores was part of the class and craft up until after the merger?

The District Lodge is charge of the CBA and negotiations not the International.

We had one GLR from the International in negotiations.

Even Robert Roach, who at the time was the GVP of transportation didnt come into negotiations until the final and last negotiating session which lasted till 4am in the morning.

I have proved to you that Stores was part of the class and craft until single carrier status.

At East, IAM represents the Stock Clerks craft or class as part of its Board certification in NMB Case No. R-4593. The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division (IBT), is the certified representative of Stock Clerks at West pursuant to NMB Case No. R-6684, America West Airlines, Inc., 26 NMB 499 (1999).

The Board finds that the IAM is the certified representative of the entire craft or class of Stock Clerks in the single transportation system. The IAM’s certification, initially established in NMB Case No. R-4593, is extended to cover the entire craft or class of Stock Clerks on the combined US Airways system.

The certification in NMB Case No. R-4593 now excludes Stock Clerks from the Mechanics and Related craft or class. US Airways/America West Airlines, 33 NMB 321 (2006). Accordingly, the IAM’s certification as the representative of the Stock Clerks craft or class on the combined US Airways system is now based on the Board’s determination in NMB Case No. R-7100; and it hereinafter will The Board extinguishes the IBT’s certification issued in Case No. R-6684. Accordingly, NMB Case No. R-7100 is closed.

So once again your lying, and I have shown you to be wrong.

 

[1AA]

OH, OH this is starting to become a 700UW vs AMFAinMIAMI.

Let me get my popcorn.

Seriously lets not let this thread get hijacked or closed.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Are you that ignorant?

From 1949 till the merger Stores was part of the class and craft and utility remains.

We negotiated and what we came up with was sent to an outside lawyer, not the IAM international.

I was Utility in 2004 and that is part of the class and craft, is this concept too hard for you to understand that Stores was part of the class and craft up until after the merger?

The District Lodge is charge of the CBA and negotiations not the International.

We had one GLR from the International in negotiations.

Even Robert Roach, who at the time was the GVP of transportation didnt come into negotiations until the final and last negotiating session which lasted till 4am in the morning.

I have proved to you that Stores was part of the class and craft until single carrier status.




So once again your lying, and I have shown you to be wrong.

700UW read your own stuff..

The certification in NMB Case No. R-4593 now excludes Stock Clerks from the Mechanics and Related craft or class.

Excludes from the mechanics and related just as I said Stock clerks are NOT part of the Maintenance class and craft. Stores has its own class and craft..

include would mean part of.

 

[700UW]

Can you not comprehend?

From 1949 till 2006 at US Stock Clerks were in the same class and craft, is that too hard to understand?

And to this day even after them getting their own certification, they are still on and part of the Mechanic and Related CBA at US.

And are you going to address why you posted lies and I explained clearly how the NC was made up and what went on?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Can you not comprehend?

From 1949 till 2006 at US Stock Clerks were in the same class and craft, is that too hard to understand?

And to this day even after them getting their own certification, they are still on and part of the Mechanic and Related CBA at US.

And are you going to address why you posted lies and I explained clearly how the NC was made up and what went on?

700UW

You have not paid attention to what I have said, or what you posted as well.

It is 2013 not 1949-2006. Stock clerks may be part of the CBA but what you still don't get is. If the mechanics (utility/automotive/facilities/aircraft) wanted to seperate from the IAM at USAir stock clerks would not get a ballot from the NMB. They don't have a say here at AA with the TWU either.

" the NMB says that stores has its own class and craft." Not allowed to vote or determine which union represents the Mechanics.

 

[700UW]

Duh, I totally understand that.

I have lived it, have you?

Still waiting for you to address your negotiation lies.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Duh, I totally understand that.

I have lived it, have you?

Still waiting for you to address your negotiation lies.

Finally you get it..,. It's what I have told you all along..

"YES" I have been through many contract negotiations in all the yrs I have been in this industry.
I have even walked a picket line and I can say that I have never crossed a line. But the IAM can't say that NO longer since they crossed an AMFA line at NWA.

I am with airline #5, all my past carriers are gone, BK or just closed. At each one including AA the intl.
and the leagl teams delt with the company and their legal team. The Negotiation teams from the airlines discuss each article that the lawyers discuss give some recommendations back too them and its presented back to the company. Basic A&P's, stock clerks, and other represented employees don't understand the contract or the unions constitution. So for you to say that you were not part of the IAM's upper union leadership (aka Intl.) and just part of the IAM as a stock clerk and that you did actual negotiations with the company, we all would find that very hard to believe.
(example: board meetings are for the elite of the company and upper union representatives if invited not regular low level employees)

You are a stock clerk by trade, I am a mechanics by trade, you can debate all you want about what you have lived but you will not have a say in my class and craft here at AA. Nor will you after the merger with USAir.

It is my belief that the IAM will no longer represent the mechanics at USAir either, since the number of mechanics at AA overwelms the number at USAir. The IAM pension will be frozen as well, since AA has no pension here at AA, the employees will get what we have a 401k match. Unless the Iam offers something to each employee that wants to contribute on their own.

 

[700UW]

Do you not think that those of us who were on the negotiating committee hadnt had specialized training?

We only used a lawyer when we presented the company with a full and comprehensive offer.

The IAM legal team was dealing the the bankruptcy and the court system

Section 1113 C negotiations are nothing like Section 6 negotiations.

Lawyers interpet words, not intent and meaning.

Funny the majority of all the arbitration cases are presented by IAM reps, not the lawyers, the lawyers do assist in the prep.

I have had much hands on training, formal education and have many mentors along the way, even the man that organized the IAM at US Airways in 1949 and negotiated every single CBA up until 1995.

The upper officers of the IAM were not involved in day to day negotiations.

And by the way I was also a member of the Continental Airlines IAM Flight attendant negotiating committee as I was a district rep too, spent eight days in Houston in their final stages of negotiations.

So dont tell me what you THINK happened, I was there, I lived it, not you. I was the person who wrote all the daily updates that was released to the membership.

How many times do I have to explain to you what happened?

The district owns and is in charge of enforcing and negotiating the CBA, not the International, the International gave us resources if we needed it.

So you say you were eastern, Charlie Bryant was a district rep, not an international and he was in charge of the CBA at EA and led them out on strike against Lorenzo.

This is the IAM, not how the TWU works.

I can show you the current IAM negotiating committee at US and they are all off the US Airways Property, district GCs and rank and file members.

Once again, dont let the facts get in your way.

Myself and the rest of the committee sat across the table from the company negotiators every day and had discussions, negotiations and passed articles back and forth, the only outsider we had was the actuary from the International who was there to crunch numbers for us.

Is that too hard to believe?

Ask my son why I was out of town five days a week for three months, I wasnt away to sit in a room and do nothing, we negotiated.

 

[delldude]

I was a shop steward in the PIT Final Assy Bldg during the time frame 700UW is discussing....... I happened to be fortunate to having access to daily discussions with 700 during these negotiations which allowed me to present accurate and intelligent information to the people who wanted up to date info regarding what was going on in DC during these negotiations. I did my job as a steward and helped my people through what was one of the most trying times in their aviation careers by letting them know where we stood in negotiations. I have the utmost respect for 700UW and can verify his credentials with IAM and their education system. He's done his part.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Do you not think that those of us who were on the negotiating committee hadnt had specialized training?

We only used a lawyer when we presented the company with a full and comprehensive offer.

The IAM legal team was dealing the the bankruptcy and the court system

Section 1113 C negotiations are nothing like Section 6 negotiations.

Lawyers interpet words, not intent and meaning.

Funny the majority of all the arbitration cases are presented by IAM reps, not the lawyers, the lawyers do assist in the prep.

I have had much hands on training, formal education and have many mentors along the way, even the man that organized the IAM at US Airways in 1949 and negotiated every single CBA up until 1995.

The upper officers of the IAM were not involved in day to day negotiations.

And by the way I was also a member of the Continental Airlines IAM Flight attendant negotiating committee as I was a district rep too, spent eight days in Houston in their final stages of negotiations.

So dont tell me what you THINK happened, I was there, I lived it, not you. I was the person who wrote all the daily updates that was released to the membership.

How many times do I have to explain to you what happened?

The district owns and is in charge of enforcing and negotiating the CBA, not the International, the International gave us resources if we needed it.

So you say you were eastern, Charlie Bryant was a district rep, not an international and he was in charge of the CBA at EA and led them out on strike against Lorenzo.

This is the IAM, not how the TWU works.

I can show you the current IAM negotiating committee at US and they are all off the US Airways Property, district GCs and rank and file members.

Once again, dont let the facts get in your way.

Myself and the rest of the committee sat across the table from the company negotiators every day and had discussions, negotiations and passed articles back and forth, the only outsider we had was the actuary from the International who was there to crunch numbers for us.

Is that too hard to believe?

Ask my son why I was out of town five days a week for three months, I wasnt away to sit in a room and do nothing, we negotiated.

700UW

You ref Charlie Bryant as a district rep for the IAM, so my question to you then
what position did you hold within the IAM? With that position was your salary paid by the IAM or the company? While at work on a daily basis were you part of the daily manning or on Union buz? If you were above a local union hall pres. NOT part of the manning and being paid by the IAM, and your pay was far above the pay of the other stock clerks. Your compensation was not effected like the average worker then you were or could be considered part of the IAM Intl. Paid by the union. Then at that point I would agree with you as being part of and in on the negotiations.

Bob who you talk to here was a Local pres. he didn't sit in on negotiations.

So ask him what the IAM term for your position would be considered here under the TWU.

 

[700UW]

I was the district communicator for 142.

I have held shop steward, trustee and recording secretary at the local level in CLT and various committees and Local Lodge Editor.

Attended Placid Harbor and took all the leadership classes and collective bargaining, which are all college accredited classes.

I was not a full time with the district, I use to get one week a month for my union work.

During negotiations I was off the floor for three months straight.

The IAM's structure is not like the TWU, the negotiating committee was made up of three full time district reps, two grievance committee chairman, one GLR and myself.

There was not one local lodge President on the negotiating committee, as were were appointed by the district to the committee not the international.

Bob was in negotiations till the TWU took him and other out.

How many times do I have to explain it to you?

You arent a US employee nor an IAM member.

And even delldude told you what happened.

Why cant you understand how the process worked at US and with the IAM?

Like I said, I was even on the Continental Airlines IAM flight attendant negotiating committee.


When at work I was working, not doing union business, only if I had to represent someone or call overtime.

I was still paid by the company and the union would get billed for my union time so I wouldnt lose my deductions and such.

So basically I worked three weeks for the company a month and one week for the union, unless I had to have more time for negotiations and etc...

My pay was only what the CBA hourly wage was, I did not take any extra money from the IAM.

How many times do I have to tell you the District was in charge of the CBA, enforcing it and negotiating it, not the International, the IAM structure is totally different than the TWU.

Like I said, how many times do I have to explain the same thing over and over to you?

 

[Desert Snake]

How is stores a craft or class? You hand out or deliver parts. That job shouldn't even be a career job. You should be happy making $15/hour. There is no schooling required. You people as a whole have the worst attitude about doing your job. People in the medical field who take care of people and go to 2 or more years of school don't make as much as you. STOP RIDING OUR COAT-TAILS!!!

 

[700UW]

Guess you are ignorant on what the job entails.

Your elitist attitude doesnt work here.

Go ask the families of the ValuJet crash how they feel.

You should really go educate yourself, because you make yourself look foolish.

 

[Bob Owens]

How is stores a craft or class? You hand out or deliver parts. That job shouldn't even be a career job. You should be happy making $15/hour. There is no schooling required. You people as a whole have the worst attitude about doing your job. People in the medical field who take care of people and go to 2 or more years of school don't make as much as you. STOP RIDING OUR COAT-TAILS!!!

How are they riding our coat tails when they dont vote on our contracts? I would have much rather had the Stores guy from Tulsa sit in our contract than either of the 'mechanics" from Tulsa that sat there. The fact is the decline of our profession is the fault of our fellow mechanics who opted to concede rather than fight, who opted to accept much less than industry standard time and time again. Our Brothers and Sisters in other departments have done a much better job keeping up with their peers in the industry, we havent, if anything mechanics at other carriers should scold us for dragging the industry down let alone riding on their coat tails. We are the ones that wrote "coat tailing" into our contract. We have a contract that says that after three more years of massive concessions across the agreement that our wage will be adjusted to not Industry Average but the middle between other carriers that lowered their wages through BK. So between a Union and a Non-Union because thats all thats left. The Mid Term wage adjustment does nothing for the Vacation, Holidays, sick time, IOD time, Doubletime, Geo Pay, CS rules, Tool allowance,Shoe allowance, reimbursement for Passport fees, etc etc etc. We weakened their bargaining position then sit back and see what they can negotiate for us, we are no better, no more of an assett to labor, Unionism or our profession, than the mechanics at Delta, in fact we are worse, Delta wouldnt dare try and impose terms as bad on their guys as we allowed AA to impose on us, and they went through BK so dont blame it on that. BK or not we can always choose to fight. We dumped it all on UAL, no wonder Hoffa decided to stick it to Little, Little stuck it to him. His members expect to be brought back up to WN wages and will likely dump the IBT if they dont deliver and we just made it harder for them to do that. We agreed to remain on their coat tails for at least six more years after dragging the whole industry to new lows in 2003, and we just did it again in 2012. We hold that title, we are the ones dragging down the profession, not our brothers and sisters in other departments who have stayed pretty close to what their peers are getting. Yes we have an organization thats extremely reluctant to lead us into battle but that still does not excuse those who voted YES.

 

[700UW]

Well said Bob. Happy Easter