The Final Draft - A letter to Mr Seigel from a US1

[TomBascom]

[blockquote]So every airline has its features,upsides and downsides,, you cannot expect everyone to match everyone to the letter..not only would that be unrealistic, its insane.[/blockquote]

Nobody is asking for to the letter matching. We want differences. What we don't want is this ridiculous idea that those differences justify the chasm between full & discount fares and the corollary that the rules which try to force people to the full fares are therefore ok.

 

[hopethingswillbeok]

who are the passengers that are complaining........the ones that fly on non refundable fares......i have watched in over twenty years how these folks know how to work the system.....now the system isn't working for them and what happens.....they start writing their complaints......guess what i will guess that all the passengers complaining have written to consumer affairs so many times and recieved free stuff so many times.....so all of you up1, up2 and up3......how much free flying and upgrades you have taken us for.....it's time the airlines say sorry charlie.....sorry but the good old days are gone....and you will still fly, before you travel by car......go to southwest....and stand in line while you wait for your number to be called...i have traveled on them and did not enjoy it at all.......flight crew, ticket agents and gate agents very cute with their greetings.....but come on.....so if you don't like the rules....sorry...but there are many up1, up2 and up3 that pay the price to be there.....from experience they are the best....don't believe we have lost over one hundred thousand passengers....keep trying to make everyone believe this.....mister or ms fly non refunalbles.....if you don't enjoy us telling you the facts....then you should not be on an airline employee website.....

 

[TomBascom]

[blockquote]
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On 9/5/2002 10:57:27 PM RealityCheck wrote:

It's not sudden. If you had actually understood the two letters at the top of the thread you'd know that.

Yes you have jacked up fares. It's the sneakiest fare increase in all recorded history

I vehemently disagree...
[/blockquote]

That's because you're selling.

I'm buying. (From someone else.)

 

[ClueByFour]

[blockquote]

The markets where its 600 rt versus 2000 rt or 300 vs 1000 in the map of the entire companys route structure, as I said above, is relatively small..I can pull up 10 random markets in 10 random calls and pull up LUV fares as well to compare and more often than not they are quite similar, maybe not the change rules, but overall pricing.And I can state that confidently because I deal with 100's of fare quote displays a day.
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[/blockquote]

Only if you count PIT, CLT, and PHL as relatively small.

 

[RealityCheck]

[BR][BR][BR]You can cite 1 example..or cite me 500 examples out of a minimum of 25,000-50,000 plus market and fare combinations that US offers and thats still a small fraction of differentials.[BR][BR][BR][BR]I give up, now convinced that TB, and certain others, wouldnt be happy if he/they won the 50M lottery or Mother Mary came down with a key to the gates o' heaven.[BR][BR]

 

[TomBascom]

[blockquote]
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On 9/5/2002 11:37:42 PM RealityCheck wrote:
You can cite 1 example..or cite me 500 examples out of a minimum of 25,000-50,000 plus market and fare combinations that US offers and thats still a small fraction of differentials.[/blockquote]

I think I've got a handle on the pattern thanks.

[blockquote]I give up, now convinced that TB, and certain others, wouldnt be happy if he/they won the 50M lottery or Mother Mary came down with a key to the gates o' heaven.[/blockquote]

I'd settle for about 10M I could be very happy with that.

[blockquote]PS..5 bucks a flight my derriere!!..if some folks hands could reach through the phone they would strangle some necks just for not being able to get a preferred seat.For $5??[/blockquote]

I thought you gave up?

Hey, it's not my number. It's what your customers have been telling you by how far they're willing to open their wallets for it. BTW, I'm quite sure that I've never tried to reach through the phone to you -- I don't know who these bad apples are but I don't have any sympathy for them. (And if I ever do get you on the phone say hi -- I won't bite.)

[blockquote]PS2..I have flown 1st class on occasion when Y is full..I am 500 percent more comfortable(thats the relative price tag I put on it) and I dont weigh 350 pounds either..for me thats worth more than your metal tube A to B analogy, otherwise everyone would sit in coach and say the heck with F class.[/blockquote]

What did [b]you[/b] pay for that ticket and that upgrade?

Back in the day when I was just a lowly silver I occasionally bought upgrades when I was in the mood. I paid $40. Out of my own pocket. That was about what I thought it was worth. It's worth less now -- I don't get a muffin or a hot towel and the limes are yellow if they're there at all.

 

[TomBascom]

[blockquote]
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On 9/5/2002 10:27:15 PM RealityCheck wrote:
I believe regardless of a gap in pricing( which from what I have seen is in very few markets comparable to LUV, maybe 20 pct tops??)
[/quote]

Huh? What are you comparing to what? I just worked through that little MHT -> MCO example. Your lowest possible fare was $168, $200 for the day I choose, there was a range all the way up to $348 for non-refundables. The lowest refundables is $1,090 running all the way up to $1,712. There's a gap of $652 between refundable and non-refundable, and about $1,500 between high and low.

... that there exists a marked difference between leisure and business, both service wise, and between no frills and frills.

It's a metal tube that goes from point a to point b. Not the QEII.

There is no essential difference between leisure and business. We're just people moving around. Sometimes we're on vacation, sometimes we're on business.

An F seat takes as much as 60% of another seats space. So if load factors were in the 95% range it could possibly be viewed as being worth that much more. The rest of it doesn't cost diddly.

I'm not talking meals and linens. Any idea what a pleasure it is to have a preferred call up and ask me for access to Q SEATS like exit rows where the leisure non prefered has no access?And I can access Q seats for nonpref members trvling on a separate record than the preferred but the same flight... with one nice computer entry!..tell me that's not looking out for the top flyers.Can you put a monetary price on that feature..5,10,100 per flt?

About $5.

I sure can't.. I wouldn't know how or what number..over a years worth of time anyway of requests for such seats.Not to mention a dedicated desk of (hopefully) experienced agts on the chpr and pref desk and shorter chk in lines at ato.And 800 nbr access to DM center in Winston as opposed to long distance for non PREF.

Any idea how nice and easy (and pleasing) it is to upgrade a Y or B right into I class for a preferred on a biz fare..and at the same time have the 20k award non elite MA and Pa Kettles and their toothless kids who paid 200 r/t not have immediate hogging access to these(G) unless flight is really really empty?[/quote]

Most of it is fixed cost infrastructure. If it exists at all it is to the airlines benefit to run a lot of people through it. The fewer people there are using it the more expensive it becomes per person. Of course you can use some cute accounting tricks to make it look like it's a really terribly expensive to do. That doesn't make it so.

 

[hopethingswillbeok]

your right a little blunt.....but i just arrived home after spending over two hours with a passenger that was a us3 on a non refundable fare.....which from here to her destination requires three coupons......but she refused to accept that they only took two per person from her, on her way down, and advised they made a mistake.......she goes crazy at the ticket counter, that if they made the mistake then we have to honor their mistake going back......she called her gold pref people and they even told her sorry but you need three....took everyones name after going on for over an hour that she was only going to give two......she was already booked in g...and had a hand full of more upgrades, but said since we made the mistake from the start we have to stay with it......as she kept on screaming.......of course i made her give us three, plus she was upgrading a friend not in her reservation, but res booked in g too......so she went crazy that she only needed four upgrades instead of six......went on for over an hour and of course she took everyones name that she could.....and her last statement was we would all be fired, because she does so much business with us.........this is why i am very blunt......she probably travels on non ref all the time and do we really need this kind of business?????????????

 

[RealityCheck]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/6/2002 12:01:03 AM hopethingswillbeok wrote:
[P]who are the passengers that are complaining........the ones that fly on non refundable fares......i have watched in over twenty years how these folks know how to work the system.....now the system isn't working for them and what happens.....they start writing their complaints......guess what i will guess that all the passengers complaining have written to consumer affairs so many times and recieved free stuff so many times.....so all of you up1, up2 and up3......how much free flying and upgrades you have taken us for.....it's time the airlines say sorry charlie.....sorry but the good old days are gone....and you will still fly, before you travel by car......go to southwest....and stand in line while you wait for your number to be called...i have traveled on them and did not enjoy it at all.......flight crew, ticket agents and gate agents very cute with their greetings.....but come on.....so if you don't like the rules....sorry...but there are many up1, up2 and up3 that pay the price to be there.....from experience they are the best....don't believe we have lost over one hundred thousand passengers....keep trying to make everyone believe this.....mister or ms fly non refunalbles.....if you don't enjoy us telling you the facts....then you should not be on an airline employee website.....[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]A bit blunt, a bit Lilninja style, but after 20 yrs also, I almost fully agree...a good deal of truth behind your comment.[/P]

 

[TomBascom]

[blockquote]
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On 9/6/2002 12:01:03 AM hopethingswillbeok wrote:
... i will guess that all the passengers complaining have written to consumer affairs so many times...
[/blockquote]

So far as I recall prior to this fiasco I've written one letter (about 5 years ago) in reference to a flight that was diverted to Boston and the chaos that ensued. I made some suggestions for better ways to handle it as the gate agent was clearly overwhelmed, unprepared and abandoned by his management. I neither asked for nor received anything in return. I got a form letter back though.

I've also occasionally sent an e-mail to the DM folks when miles didn't post. With a few exceptions they've always taken care of it right away without any problems. The exceptions weren't worth any extra effort.

I got a bump ticket once. Gave up a coach seat so a dad could make it home on the same flight with his son. I got to spend the night in PIT for that. I almost scored another one a few weeks ago but some wise guy got his hand up before I could. (And I was in F that time...)

I have no idea how to get any really sweet freebies. But if you'd like to send a few along I guess I'll try and figure out what to do with them.

 

[RealityCheck]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/6/2002 12:38:21 AM hopethingswillbeok wrote:
[P]your right a little blunt.....but i just arrived home after spending over two hours with a passenger that was a us3 on a non refundable fare.....which from here to her destination requires three coupons......but she refused to accept that they only took two per person from her, on her way down, and advised they made a mistake.......she goes crazy at the ticket counter, that if they made the mistake then we have to honor their mistake going back......she called her gold pref people and they even told her sorry but you need three....took everyones name after going on for over an hour that she was only going to give two......she was already booked in g...and had a hand full of more upgrades, but said since we made the mistake from the start we have to stay with it......as she kept on screaming.......of course i made her give us three, plus she was upgrading a friend not in her reservation, but res booked in g too......so she went crazy that she only needed four upgrades instead of six......went on for over an hour and of course she took everyones name that she could.....and her last statement was we would all be fired, because she does so much business with us.........this is why i am very blunt......she probably travels on non ref all the time and do we really need this kind of business?????????????[/P]
[P]----------------[/P]
[P] [/P]
[P]I would have called security..and denied her first class and given it to the next person who had the appropriate upgrades....same philosophy as with the SW passgr who flirted overboard with a F/A and F/A cited him for harassment and SW mgmt sent him a letter saying they didnt want his business...Thats taking a stand for your company.!There comes a point when you have to ditch the brown decaying wood and search for greener pastures. And they're out there. We see them every day. Her priorities in life were quite obvious in the devils land and I/company would have no use for such people in my breathing space, let alone on my planet.[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]

 

[TomBascom]

Something we all agree about! Don't put up with it. There's no excuse and it shouldn't be tolerated.

Do you guys get training on how to deal with these sorts of jerks?

But I'll dispute the inference that there's a link between discount tickets and bad behavior -- the last jerk I saw was being a jerk because she was on a paid F and felt mistreated.

[blockquote]
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On 9/6/2002 1:06:47 AM RealityCheck wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]
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On 9/6/2002 12:38:21 AM hopethingswillbeok wrote:


your right a little blunt.....but i just arrived home after spending over two hours with a passenger that was a us3 on a non refundable fare.....which from here to her destination requires three coupons......but she refused to accept that they only took two per person from her, on her way down, and advised they made a mistake.......she goes crazy at the ticket counter, that if they made the mistake then we have to honor their mistake going back......she called her gold pref people and they even told her sorry but you need three....took everyones name after going on for over an hour that she was only going to give two......she was already booked in g...and had a hand full of more upgrades, but said since we made the mistake from the start we have to stay with it......as she kept on screaming.......of course i made her give us three, plus she was upgrading a friend not in her reservation, but res booked in g too......so she went crazy that she only needed four upgrades instead of six......went on for over an hour and of course she took everyones name that she could.....and her last statement was we would all be fired, because she does so much business with us.........this is why i am very blunt......she probably travels on non ref all the time and do we really need this kind of business?????????????[/P]


----------------[/P]


[/P]


I would have called security..and denied her first class and given it to the next person who had the appropriate upgrades....same philosophy as with the SW passgr who flirted overboard with a F/A and F/A cited him for harassment and SW mgmt sent him a letter saying they didnt want his business...Thats taking a stand for your company.!There comes a point when you have to ditch the brown decaying wood and search for greener pastures. And they're out there. We see them every day. Her priorities in life were quite obvious in the devils land and I/company would have no use for such people in my breathing space, let alone on my planet.[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]


[/P]
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[/blockquote]

 

[AtlanticBeach]

I am grateful that this discussion is not typical of encounters between US Airways employees and its' customers. The high quality of US Airways employees is what keeps many of the passengers loyal, even during times of crisis.

If there is guilt to dole out, I'll accept some of it. I e-mail customer service regularly to compliment outstanding service from employees in every work group. The compliments outweigh the criticism by about 10 to 1. Therefore, I use employees' valuable time.

At my home airport, I know virtually all the staff. We always shake hands, ask about each others kids and spouses. My guess is that they appreciate someone who understands how difficult their job can be and thanks them for a job well done.

Most FFs are feeling betrayed due to the severe changes in rules without a change in fares. In a call to Customer Service last week, a delightful lady looked at the fare differentials for the four routes I travel most often. The average difference between the V fares and the lowest refundable was 550%!

I'll pay for my upgrades with either cash or miles. What I can not afford to lose is time. Without the ability to use the preferred check-ins, getting off the airplane at my destination more quickly or flying stand-by when necessary, then that airline no longer meets my needs.

My belief is that the posters on this Board have become quite emotional because they realize the severity of the problems that currently exist. My hope is that appropriate changes will occur quickly that will allow a more positive outlook.

 

[RealityCheck]

[P]Art, I would say the agents at the airport have over analyzed the no standby rule in a situation like this and havent received clearance or guidelines form the uppers in a situation like yours..its not as if this is a deliberate or even accidental attempt to miss a flight..regardless of shuttle or connx in CLT. I would be also concerned with baggage policy as by policy bags must follow the pax etc and if you got to NYC early your bags would be an hour behind..maybe not you if you pack sensibly as carry on only but for Larry Leisure and their 3 bags.[/P]
[P]I would still write in to C/Affairs and perhaps they would ctc the right dept to analyze this type situation which I am sure is more rare than common and then the appropriate dept can be contacted to perhaps modify the policy a bit.[/P]

 

[Art at ISP]

Hopethingswillbeok,

I was shocked to read of the behavior of the customer regarding the coupons. Please be assured that this type of behavior is NOT representative of the vast majority of Preferred Members. I have always been a vocal supporter of US Airways and its employees--there is no excuse whatsoever for the behavior of that passenger.

That said, I think your previous statement is a little overboard. Sometimes we are forced by economic reasons (company policy) to take a lower fare if it is available. There is no justifiable reason for me to pay $1400 for a ticket when the same ticket could be purchased for $299. All things being equal, I do agree with most of the new restrictions, however, the inability to stand by for an earlier flight, or even get on one, especially if it is within 2 hours of departure AND a connecting flight is a bit much. Perhaps you can explain this to me....

I arrive at DCA 20 minutes early from FLL. The 8PM shuttle is sitting 3 gates away and is boarding..wide open availability. Because I am holding a n/r ticket, however, they won't let me on the 8PM--they make me wait for the 9PM on which I am originally booked. What difference does it make if I am on the 8 or 9? My rear is in a US seat which has been paid for. There is no additional cost to US, and there is a significant savings for me-PLUS I could have been home in time to tuck my kid in while she was still awake.

Now I am not the greedy want something for nothing type you seem to think we all are--the fact is that about 75% of my travel is on B or higher fares. There is a point, however, where a little common sense goes a long way don't you think? And how far does that go toward good will?

You and your colleagues are the reason for my loyalty to US and I wish you all the best during the current tought time. Just please don't put us all in the same category as the passenger you had to deal with...