The Benfit Of Negotiating

[local 12 proud]

labor can give until they work for free, thats not going to change what goes on at headquarters, they will continue to give themselves bonuses set themselves up with golden parachutes and piss the rest of the $$$$$ down the toilet, all the while the airline continues to bleed. GREED GREED GREED bottomline! :angry:

 

[Phoenix]

So really the choice is simple. Lower your blood pressure and leave, or stay and accept reality. I mean isnt it that simple.

Ha Ha! If you are willing to work for Wal-Mart wages why don't you leave now and beat the rush to be a "greater". The rest can stick around until the liquidation, then you will be senior greater when the "hardliners" eventually end up at Wal-Mart behind you.

 

[firstamendment]

For those filled with anger or bitterness, cost cuts are coming one way or another, whether it’s liquidation or consensual.

This is what will bring our company down. It isn't a right/wrong issue where our company is concerned. There is so much negativity that I'm not sure we can recover. It doesn't help that posters from other airlines just love to rub the salt in the wound. This just feeds the fire.

Folks, If you're ready to bring down the company on your principals, then be ready to live with consequences. This isn't a right/wrong judgement. The world will continue to spin around no matter if US Airways survives or not. Also, if you have another career option, go for it. Why hang around mouthing off how you can do this or that or that you do this or that already? Quit and go for it.

On the otherhand, if you feel this old dino is worth saving, be prepare to take it on the chin and either cut your own expenses or work more. This option too is neither right or wrong.

These are really the only choices we have. It is pretty clear that without cuts we are gone. You can say you gave ALL you want, but the reality is US Airways owes you NOTHING. Life owes you NOTHING. Each and every one of us is owed NOTHING.

This is a business, folks. Let go of the emotion or let go of your job.

Now, let the venom flow. h34r:

 

[mweiss]

Also, if you have another career option, go for it. Why hang around mouthing off how you can do this or that or that you do this or that already? Quit and go for it.

Ya know, this is the part that gets me, too.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Management has let the unions know that they want JetBlue/America West type contracts.

Apparently, if they do not get them with the work rule changes to fuel the "Going Forward Plan" the company will sell assets, pay off the loan guarantee, and then liquidate.

The Financial Advisors believe this is not a bluff. Therefore, it's either negotiate or die. It's really that simple.

Again, I believe it's better to have a paycheck and benefits while you are looking for a job versus be like Sam Wood and file for personal bankruptcy.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

Firstamendment:

Firstamendment said: "Also, if you have another career option, go for it. Why hang around mouthing off how you can do this or that or that you do this or that already? Quit and go for it."

USA320Pilot comments: The reason most people do not quit is that they do not have another option, however, without an across-the-board competitive cost structure they will need to find one and in a hurry.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[sentrido]

Sams finacial failure was his own fault.

 

[Phantom Fixer]

Sams finacial failure was his own fault.

Ditto !!!

A victim of his own lifestyle choices , pure and simple.

Let them threaten to liquidate the company all they care too. JB or HP wages won't make the bills for 80% of the workers regardless. It's better to draw un-employment benefits based on todays wages Vs. lowered ones.

Keep drumming the beat about "Go ahead and take another one on the chin" , No thanks Pal !! You tell those whom are doing the asking to take it on the chin this time. They are asking us to work for nothing all the while they themselves are drawing wages far higher than the executives of profitable companies that they elect to compare us to.

You people are a collection of jelly-fish.....and it's more than obvious whom the scared parties are in this situation.

Feel free to offer up your wages and benefits for no defineable good if you so desire? , just don't expect the rest of us to go down the tubes with you.

I would rather get additional training for another field while on un-employment based on the current wages...Vs giving more and still ending up in the same situation later due to the core competative issues still not being addressed.

Your giving and giving grants them every reason to not solve such issues....I think the past two years and concessionary rounds speak that clearly enough for those whom can see it or hear it.

 

[OldGuyinPA]

Negotiate or Die.......

The last person leaving please turn off the lights ( Seen on a billboard in Seattle...)
If it's not Boeing...we're not going.......BYCU

 

[firstamendment]

Firstamendment:

Firstamendment said: "Also, if you have another career option, go for it. Why hang around mouthing off how you can do this or that or that you do this or that already? Quit and go for it."

USA320Pilot comments: The reason most people do not quit is that they do not have another option, however, without an across-the-board competitive cost structure they will need to find one and in a hurry.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I know that. I'm just hoping the emotionally attached will step back and see the reality.

 

[Baja4U]

I agree with 320 ! We will work more for less, one way or the other. Whether we agree or its forced on us in another bk filing. So really the choice is simple. Lower your blood pressure and leave, or stay and accept reality. I mean isnt it that simple. If theres anyone on this board who feels US cant and wont file bk again at some point and force us to take additional cuts, raise your hand..... I mean please its plain and simple like the nose on her face!!!! I dont like it but HELLO> unions cant help us now!

usfliboi, who are you???? steve H?????? Or have you been neutered????

 

[BoeingBoy]

USA320Pilot,

" Management has let the unions know that they want JetBlue/America West type contracts.

Apparently, if they do not get them with the work rule changes to fuel the "Going Forward Plan" the company will sell assets, pay off the loan guarantee, and then liquidate."

This is the part I have trouble wrapping my head around. In my earlier post I listed several reasons why we would still have a higher CASM if every employee group adopted JetBlue's contracts. Included in those contracts are work rules, benefits, etc., whether it be outsourcing maintenance or res agents working at home.

We both agree that with all that in place, we would NOT have a competitive cost structure for the reasons I listed plus others I didn't. Here's a couple more specifics:

1) JetBlue's longer average stage length is worth a 1.5 cents CASM advantage over us.

2) Southwest's fuel hedging is worth up to a 0.5 cent CASM advantage over us, depending on what happens with the price of fuel.

Given this, either some employee group (or groups) will have to accept considerable less that a JetBlue equivalent contract or the "Going Forward Plan" will only lurch a time or two before dying.

Jim

 

[Bob Owens]

Firstamendment:

Firstamendment said: "Also, if you have another career option, go for it. Why hang around mouthing off how you can do this or that or that you do this or that already? Quit and go for it."

USA320Pilot comments: The reason most people do not quit is that they do not have another option, however, without an across-the-board competitive cost structure they will need to find one and in a hurry.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Regards,

USA320Pilot

The point is you can keep giving forever, it wont make your life better. The secret to a better life is charge more, work less. Never the opposite, when you get old you will never say to yourself, gee, we should have agreed to work for less. The fear of change is legitimate, but you should not allow that fear to ruin your life.

If USAIR closes its doors you will work again. The planes will fly again, they may be painted a different color but they will fly again. All those people who are getting on those planes are not going to stay home. Someone will take them to where they want to go, and they will need competant mechanics to keep them flying.


If you want to increase your opportunities then make sure they close the doors behind you. Then other airlines that can make money and pay their people, such as SWA can expand.

The workers of Pan Am thought they could get job security through concessions, all the got was a few more years working for lower wages and the lost opportunity to get back up to top scale quicker at the next carrier.

Two years ago I posted on your site saying not to give concessions, that it would not help because everyone else would simply follow. Well thats what happened didnt it? Now Usair is coming around for a third time, in the meantime the big wigs at the top are raking in millions off your backs. Over at Pan Am, after the company finally liquidated, despite having the lowest wages in the industry, the courts threw the last CEO a few extra million, that should have gone into the Pension fund. Talk about adding insult to injury, that carpet bagger was only there a few months and he made several times what most employees made over a lifetime yet the judge threw him an extra few million, their pension was that much lower.

If USAIR is going to fail your sacrifices will not change that, all it will do is give people like Segal the opportunity to pocket a few extra million over the next couple of years. He will leave a very rich man. In the meantime you will leave a few years older, with less time to make enough before you retire, and a lot poorer. Just ask the Pan Am guys if in hindsight they wish they had said no to the first round of concessions.

USA320 pilots talks about cost structure. Saying that you should agree to make hundreds of dollars less every week than a SWA mechanic so USAIR can match SWA cost strucure. In other words you should subsidize the inefficiencies of management. You should agree to earn hundreds of dollars less every week so the stockholders can get a fair return on their investment.

I said all this two years back, and its still true today. Make as much as you can while its there and bank as much as you can. Selling yourself cheap can only lead to slavery. Years of your life will pass you by and things will only get harder, not better. When the worst happens you are likely to find, as the Pan Am and EAL workers did that it was not that bad after all, you will survive. Give no more back and prepare for the inevitable. Thats the risk we take when we rely one one employer for our means of supporting our family.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Bob Owens:

As an AA employee every time the idea of contract changes come up you come out of the woods. Your motives are transparent. Your desire is for US Airways to fail so that AA has less competition.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Sincerely,

USA320Pilot

 

[Baja4U]

Firstamendment:

Firstamendment said: "Also, if you have another career option, go for it. Why hang around mouthing off how you can do this or that or that you do this or that already? Quit and go for it."

USA320Pilot comments: The reason most people do not quit is that they do not have another option, however, without an across-the-board competitive cost structure they will need to find one and in a hurry.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Regards,

USA320Pilot

YOU TOO!!! What are YOUR optiontions??? YOU have none.....Sorry, I feel your pain, but, I will not fall as hard. Did you plan ahead??? :blink: h34r: :blink: