Thb And Ward Debate

[LiveInAHotel]

Did anyone attend the THB and Ward debate last night in DFW? It would be interesting to hear what took place. I just want to know what excuses JW used as to why he has been in hibernation since the concessions.

 

[FA Mikey]

Best I can offer is Jeff Crecelius already published first hand take on the event.


Just got back from the first ever APFA Presidential candidate Debate.

What a refreshing surprise it turned out to be! First of all, Tommie
Hutto-Blake blew away all the myths and rumors once and for all
regarding her so-called "concessionary leanings" as she's been
portrayed by the Ward camp. "I am not the concessionary candidate.
John Ward is the concessionary candidate ....as is evidenced by the
concessionary contract that he produced last year."

It was obvious that Tommie is a much tougher cookie than Ward has
made her out to be - she was cool, yet passionate in the pressure of
the debate.

Ward, meanwhile, although stiff, did have a few good responses. He
tended to ramble quite abit though, and seemed to get off track on
certain questions. He was able to keep his arrogance in check at
first, but his delivery became more and more strained as the debate
wore on. It was obvious that he was struggling to maintain his
composure while on the hotseat.

Putting to rest the false assertions- and only campaign issue of the
Ward slate, Tommie stated, "I WILL NOT GIVE ONE SENIORITY NUMBER TO
FORMER TWA F/A'S. THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL RETURN TO AA PROPERTY IS
WHEN A RECALL OF FURLOUGHED F/A'S REACHES A SENIORITY DATE OF APRIL
10, 2001 - WHICH IS THE SENIORITY DATE OF ALL FORMER TWA F/A'S."

The candidates stand in stark contrast when it comes to having plans
for APFA'S future. Tommie has precise answers to offer as far as
concrete plans for the future, John can only state that he wants to
prepare for the next round of negotiations and wants a chance to
be "a normal president for awhile" whatever that means? If John
hasn't been president for the past 4 years, then WHO HAS?

Tommie scored on the issue of reduced rest. While John throws in the
towel, saying "the rule is what it is and it could take 20 years to
change", (referring to the FAA minimums that we live with under his
concessionary contact); Tommie unveiled a passionate plan for
storming Capitol Hill, the media, and our customers with stories of
real-life f/a's hardships under this rule, with an eye to change the
rule thru hard work. She also mentioned that it's incredible that
the contract we're now living under takes us back in some respects to
the 1940's.

There was so much more, in the nearly two hours Tommie offered solid
plans for APFA's future; John never did articulate ANY solid plans
other than "preparing for potential early opening in 2006
negotiations." That, and his continual reference to the bogus
seniority issues, which Tommie has clearly stated time and time again
are ludicrous lies, seem to be Ward's only "plan" to undo the damage
he's done to our union and our contract.

Jeff Crecelius/MIA

 

[jimntx]

I attended the debate. Here's what I posted to APFAboard on Yahoo.

I would like to say that the debate was informative and stimulating. That is what I would like to say. Unfortunately, a compulsion to tell the truth forces me to say that I think the drive out to Irving was a waste of perfectly good gas.

If this debate had been held at the beginning of the election cycle, it might have been effective. However, I doubt that one single person's mind was changed by anything said tonight.

The room divided down the middle between the Ward camp and the THB camp. There was almost no interaction between the people sitting on opposite sides though obviously most knew each other.

I got the impression that the majority of attendees were senior DFW and IDF flight attendants. As far as I can tell, I was the only furloughee there.

I meant to take notes but got to the hotel and realized I had left the legal pad and pen sitting on my desk at home. There was nothing really substantive said about the issues and a lot of each accusing the other's slate of dirty politics. Quelle surprise!

JW does seem to have studied at the Geo. W. Bush school of nonsensical public statements. Exact quote: "The membership will be divided until it is reunited." Duh!

I didn't stay for the whole thing. I just couldn't. I tried, but kept thinking that I should be home alphabetizing my spices or doing something else equally important.

For those who like to tell the lie that THB plans to give away the farm to former TWA'ers
When the debate discussion tonight turned to the topic of the divisions within the membership, the question was asked how do you intend to heal the divisions and reunite the membership? (This is where JW made his incisive comment that the membership would be divided until it was reunited. Which was his answer to the question, by the way!!!!!!)

THB stated she had already asked Steve Ellis, Rock Soloman (sp?), Sam Morales, and Bobby Bulham to remain involved in union activities. Can anyone spot some missing names in her list? That's right, class. She did not mention a single candidate who was former TWA.

I guess it's not important to reunite with almost 20% of the membership. And, the former TWA flight attendants ARE members of APFA; so, don't even start.

 

[TransWorldONE]

Jim, thanks as always for your unbiased postings.

 

[LiveInAHotel]

It's great to hear that JW cracked under the pressure. Let's just hope that THB gets 50% + 1 and puts JW back on the line!

It will great to see Jeff Bott, Linda Lanning and Juan Johnson back on the line too. The 3 of these sell outs along with JW will now see first hand how life really is on the line, after all the created this mess!

 

[twasilverbullet]

Jim, I second TransWorld.......Hope you were able to do your spices.

 

[skivoodoo]

Jim,

Thank you for attending and reporting. Your level head and astute observations are appreciated!

Ski

 

[fliboi78]

i also thank you jim. that was very unbiased and fair. hope to see you and everyone back soon.

 

[MiAAmi]

The entire debate is available on the following site

http://www.reelectward.org/html/debate.html

 

[skyangelnflight]

My guess is it didn't change anyone's mind. Those that were for Ward before the debate are for him after the debate, the same for Tommie.

I would be curious to hear if anyone was for Tommie and is now for Ward after watching the debate.

Or if anyone was really for Ward, and after the debate changed camps.

 

[jimntx]

My guess is it didn't change anyone's mind. Those that were for Ward before the debate are for him after the debate, the same for Tommie.

I would be curious to hear if anyone was for Tommie and is now for Ward after watching the debate.

Or if anyone was really for Ward, and after the debate changed camps.

Exactly the same point I made in my posting. If this debate had been held at the beginning of the election cycle and had included all the candidates, it might have made a difference. I don't know if you were there or not. I was. I got the distinct feeling that just about everyone there came to support either JW or THB, not to hear a "debate" on the issues.

You either believe that the seniority issue vis-a-vis the former TWA flight attendants is your only problem and thus you will vote for JW, or you believe that we must begin today to build a true union. I don't know that THB will accomplish that. What I do believe, reinforced by his non-answers at the debate, is that JW has no interest in building anything other than a career that does NOT involve having to actually work as a flight attendant.

Consider the fact that 71% of the votes in the first round went to someone other than JW. Yet, he said that he wants to have a chance to "be a normal president for four years." He wants a "normal" presidency while fanning the flames of dissension and division to get elected. Yeah, ok. That's the ticket. :huh:

The proof of how I voted is left to the student.

 

[FA Mikey]

I dont understand what there is to support in jw. He is a fool, he has proved his incompetence over and over again. I understand a good percentage of our membership buries it head in the sand. This guy didn't plan ahead, we all knew cuts would come to us at some point. Why were we so unprepared? He has done zero to improve our situation either pre or post 911. How can anyone look at this proven loser and say this is our hope for the future of our union? Unbelievable!

 

[jimntx]

Now, Mikey. Don't be shy. Come on, try for Mother. Tell us how you really feel.

 

[FA Mikey]

I have always had a problem expressing my emotions and saying what I feel.

 

[L1011Ret]

I agree with Mikey, JW's approach to problems is to ignore them till it becomes nearly too late and you suffer the consequences. Only an ostrich would have believed cuts were not coming. The consequences of not being prepared are repeated nearly daily by posters.

There is a piece on the OP-ED page of today's NY Times about George Washington and how he rose above party party issues to command the nation. The title is "Leader of a Nation, not a party." The point being that a great leader distances himself from party fractionalism and leads the nation. A president has to be inclusive as much as possible. JW has not shown any such potential. He cries that he should be re-elected because of all the disasters that occurred on his watch. He was presented with opportunity after opportunity to demonstrate leadership and yet he has demonstrated a remarkable ability to have his head in the sand when leadership was called for. A lot of people did not like Mayor Guiliani but when the chips were down after 9/11 he performed admirably. The same cannot be said of JW.

JW's use of the TWA seniority issue for re-election fodder is just another example. Rather than welcoming the TWAers into the APFA fold, he has chosen to keep them as outcasts, those "other people" is the way he is reported to have characterized the TWAers. He could have said, "we welcome you, we make every attempt to assist you. We realize you are unhappy with the seniority issue, but we will now represent you as members of APFA." Or something like that. Instead he has chosen the path of being president by dividing the membership while ignoring 1/5 of his constituents. The membership division is solely due to his actions during his watch. There are examples after examples that JW is unable to rise above party issues. By his campaign rhetoric, it appears JW is totally unaware of the huge splits in APFA, the restless voices calling for attachment to a national union and how his own personal failings have led APFA to this point. He appears to foster exclusivity, negative campaigning, a sort of dictatorship that cannot delegate responsibility, and a lack of accountability to the membership. May the results of this election lead you to more prosperous times.