Teamsters "raiding" TWU?

[Hopeful]

I don't think I read to much into your post. Your post #133 plainly states "Watch and learn folks. More details will be out soon. But I will tell you this, SWA will not have another contract unless we are brought up to or over current UPS wages. BTW; SWA wants this done by the end of the first quarter of 2013. Not saying it will happen by then, but they are in a rush for some reason or another".

The way I read it is that there is no way SWA will get out of paying UPS wages.

It wasn't until later you said that was your opinion, and you would vote against anything unless is was equal to UPS wages. Which was probably a correction/update to your other post.

I hope that AMFA will be a lot stronger than our TWU is, good luck!!!

It's ironic that SWA mechanics want to be brought up to UPS wages, and rightfully so...
We can't even come up to SWA wages!

 

[swamt]

Keep in mind that the Wage adjustment is only that-wage. Our contract is bottom of the industry in EVERY measure, its even inferior to Non-union terms of employment. Just the Holidays alone leaves us with around the equivelent of 100 less hours pay per year, if the average is $38/hr, then thats around $3800 a year less. So lets say in three years UAL is making $38, USAIR is making $37.75 and Delta is making $37.50, the adjustment would bring us up to USAIRs Wage of $37.75, but we really wouldnt be making anywhere near what USAIR would be meaking as far as total compensation, just the Holdays alone knocks us down by around $1.80/hr behind them in this possible example, then add in a weeks less vacation at all steps , that knocks it down around $ .75 an hour, then the sick time, 5 days with the first at half pay, and thats not even counting the workrules and the overpriced Medical which will likely cost you around $10,000 out of pocket if you or a family member need any sort of an operation or has a serious illness (it could be even more since there is no longer any out of pocket max).

Hey Bob, just currious; what's up with the claimer after your post? Did I miss something awhile back?? It's just funny to see the claimer, I copied and pasted it from your post above, after a posting that has nothing to do with AMFA, another airline, or even Seham himself. If it's none of my bus. then tell me so. Here's the claimer;

Disclaimer-Lee Seham had no part in this post. The opinions expressed are solely those of the author and are not intended to be legal advice.

 

[swamt]

I still say there is no way this can be done by an association with almost zero real negotiating experience against a hostile airline. At UAL, when up against an un-friendly management, they failed miserably. There are those who excuse this with the bankruptcy, but still, shouldn't you expect more from your union? Isn't the that trouble with AA mechanics now? We expected more from amfa at UAL. They did not know how to deliver.

Traditionally, amfa has always chosen the easiest and least expensive avenue for negotiations. Extend when ever possible. My prediction is your association will settle either for an extension, or you will be asked for some type of concessions. I base this look in to my crystal ball on the recent sound bites coming from various news sources on higher than expected costs at SWA.

Of course I am still in.

As for your numbers, you claim hangar and line are treated the same. But in all honesty, reviewing the details of your last few stock holder reports, SWA aircraft maintenance model system wide is based on a theory of line maintenance. To be fair, you are not anything like AA who still does major hangar work and overhauls. SWA aircraft maintenance in general is more of a glorified line maintenance system. Be honest, you have no real overhaul categories even at your base, am I correct?

AMFA actually did increase protections in UAL. Read their contract. Dallas does 3 lines of heavy maint. soon to be 4 lines starting July 2013. So I don't know why you are saying we are only line. We also do mod lines, "C" checks, Ron, ect... Don't know where you are getting your info about SWA but it has constantly been way off.
I will correct you again Anomaly, The idea of an extention has already been discussed and shot down. Plus they have already started the sec 6 openers. Company has also reafirmed no conssesions. So once again your predictions are wrong again. You are looking better and better man, keep up the good work...

 

[swamt]

You back peddle fast.

Not back peddling. Just explaining to the fine folks how YOU like to twist peoples phrases. For example, I never posted that AMFA garrentees leap froging UPS's wages. But you re-wrote as if I did, so it is apparent that I may have to slow down, and explain like I am dealing with a child...

 

[Lloyd Grey]

I signed and AMFA card and threw the Teamsters package in the round file.

We should be voting in Spring 2013.

 

[strikeforce]

It's ironic that SWA mechanics want to be brought up to UPS wages, and rightfully so...
We can't even come up to SWA wages!

Because AMFA considers all AMT's to be the same....whether you work on pax or cargo planes. The TWU doesn't agree with that statement. And, when your own agent doesn't believe in that theory.....you will never get UPS & FED EX wages. That's the difference. Add in the fact that SWA considers their AMT's to be the "BEST" in the world.....and will gladly pay for their services.

 

[Buck]

I wonder if a mechanic at AA at SWA wages could afford there own benefits package?

 

[swamt]

I signed and AMFA card and threw the Teamsters package in the round file.

We should be voting in Spring 2013.

I think you will brother. Good luck to all you guys.

 

[unionguy1]

I wonder if a mechanic at AA at SWA wages could afford there own benefits package?

Hey Buck, take a trip down memory lane. In the 80's we paid $3 FOR generic drugs and $5 for name brands, 90's $7 and $10, early 2000's $15 and $20. Now we pay a %. I talked to a SWA employee at the Tulsa informational AMFA meeting a couple weeks ago. He said he pays $4 for generic and $10 for name brand drugs.Their health care sounds much better than ours. Wonder how health benefits differ so drastically between carriers? I did not get anymore info concerning medical except for the perscriptions.Not too shabby from a perscription stand point.

 

[1AA]

I signed and AMFA card and threw the Teamsters package in the round file.

We should be voting in Spring 2013.

Spring 2013? Damm I wish it would be sooner. The TWU is like a cancer. The longer we wait the worse it is for recovery.

 

[Buck]

Hey Buck, take a trip down memory lane. In the 80's we paid $3 FOR generic drugs and $5 for name brands, 90's $7 and $10, early 2000's $15 and $20. Now we pay a %. I talked to a SWA employee at the Tulsa informational AMFA meeting a couple weeks ago. He said he pays $4 for generic and $10 for name brand drugs.Their health care sounds much better than ours. Wonder how health benefits differ so drastically between carriers? I did not get anymore info concerning medical except for the perscriptions.Not too shabby from a perscription stand point.

I am just thinking that if we were paid SWA hourly rates, comparatively we could afford our own medical. However we are compensated the lowest and probably pay the most for our benefits....

 

[swamt]

Hey Buck, take a trip down memory lane. In the 80's we paid $3 FOR generic drugs and $5 for name brands, 90's $7 and $10, early 2000's $15 and $20. Now we pay a %. I talked to a SWA employee at the Tulsa informational AMFA meeting a couple weeks ago. He said he pays $4 for generic and $10 for name brand drugs.Their health care sounds much better than ours. Wonder how health benefits differ so drastically between carriers? I did not get anymore info concerning medical except for the perscriptions.Not too shabby from a perscription stand point.

unionguy1,
What you stated you heard true, but there's more. Speaking from experience, yes our generics can run between 4-7 bucks depending on the medicine. Name brands can run from 10-25 plus totally dependant of the medicine and/or if it is a maintenance drug at that. So there is a wide margine depending on the drugs you are buying, however the lowest is 4 the highest may in fact be higher than I have posted. The reason I say this is because I would think cancer meds run much higher. Hope this helps.

 

[Overspeed]

Because AMFA considers all AMT's to be the same....whether you work on pax or cargo planes. The TWU doesn't agree with that statement. And, when your own agent doesn't believe in that theory.....you will never get UPS & FED EX wages. That's the difference. Add in the fact that SWA considers their AMT's to be the "BEST" in the world.....and will gladly pay for their services.

I disagree. The FAA does not set the standard that all work needs to be done by AMTs much less in the US under the same standards. If the FAA set the same standards for random audits, drug testing, and background checks then all maintenance work would be evaluated equally. But that doesn't happen so airlines started pushing the envelope and work became outsourced to stations that did not have to employee licensed A&Ps to do the work. How does AAR, ST Aero, Aeroman, AMECO, COOPESA, Aeromexico (a JV with DL), and charge such low chargeout rates? Because the FAA is not required to hold them to the same level of enforcement action and does not require all the work to be done by licensed A&Ps (or equivalent license)

The battle we fight is against the regulators. Unions cannot compel any airline to do the work in-house when the gov't allows so much latitude and the ability to circumvent regulation so easily. Until that gets fixed well, in the words of Ross Perot, "There will be a giant flushing sound...," of jobs leaving the country.

 

[strikeforce]

I disagree. The FAA does not set the standard that all work needs to be done by AMTs much less in the US under the same standards. If the FAA set the same standards for random audits, drug testing, and background checks then all maintenance work would be evaluated equally. But that doesn't happen so airlines started pushing the envelope and work became outsourced to stations that did not have to employee licensed A&Ps to do the work. How does AAR, ST Aero, Aeroman, AMECO, COOPESA, Aeromexico (a JV with DL), and charge such low chargeout rates? Because the FAA is not required to hold them to the same level of enforcement action and does not require all the work to be done by licensed A&Ps (or equivalent license)

The battle we fight is against the regulators. Unions cannot compel any airline to do the work in-house when the gov't allows so much latitude and the ability to circumvent regulation so easily. Until that gets fixed well, in the words of Ross Perot, "There will be a giant flushing sound...," of jobs leaving the country.

it won't get fixed because union's, corporate america, and politicians are incahoots against the working man. They put on a great show.....like the TWU that "we're going to fight like hell" only to roll over and play dead.....all the while bamboozling everybody they represent. It's a big sham. The union and company are at work destroying the working man.

With that said, what does the FAA have anything to do with how your bargaining agent views the profession they represent?? I said that AMFA believes SWA amt's are worth as much as UPS mechanics. That's why they go into negotiations and get top dollar for their amt's. The TWU is worried more about dues.....so the amt wage has nowhere to go but down. Craft union's believe in industry leading wages and benefits.....basically to enhance the purchasing power of the worker. In order to maintain those high wages for their amt's, while allowing the hand that feeds those high wages some flexibility, AMFA allowed carriers to outsource. The TWU, on the other hand, allowed AA to outsource, and allowed AA to pay low-end wages to current workers. It was a win-win for AA! But, what the TWU actually did was screw amt's at other carriers that were very successful in exchanging high wages for some outsourcing. There isn't a union on the planet that will stop the outsourcing of good paying MX jobs.......why not try and get top dollars for the remaining jobs? That's something the TWU failed in getting. They failed because they're incahoots with AA. I tend to believe that somehow AA paying TWU's legal fees had something to do with the outcome.

 

[Anomaly]

Because AMFA considers all AMT's to be the same....whether you work on pax or cargo planes. The TWU doesn't agree with that statement. And, when your own agent doesn't believe in that theory.....you will never get UPS & FED EX wages. That's the difference. Add in the fact that SWA considers their AMT's to be the "BEST" in the world.....and will gladly pay for their services.

Strikeforce, you should take some time to learn the history of amfa. This is not the case at all. amfa is for line mechanics period. They have little desire to represent ALL mechanics. Just go back and take a look at their past contracts and see who gets thrown under the bus first.