Swa To Get Mediation In F/a Negotiations

[Busdrvr]

"But I'm glad you mention it - the question was asked "How is an OAK based flight attendant supposed to survive on starting wages". The answer is simple - live in KC and commute. After all, very few crew members live in the city where they are based (especially if it proves too expensive to do so)...right?"

Which again shows just how naive you are WRT the life of crewmembers. If the company "knows" it's employees can't make ends meet in a domicile, and therefore EXPECT him/her to commute, then should they be compensated for the commute? Lets say you have a two day trip that leaves early in the morning and gets back late in the evening. Guess what. That trip is a 4 day trip to a commuter. Over labor day? Full loads? Now it's a five day trip. That's one of the pitfalls of this industry, folks from little tiny towns in america where nobody wants to live hear about salaries and say "I could get a triple wide AND a lift kit for the truck on that pay", never realizing that there are international 767 F/O making less than a city bus driver, and Captains making less than prison guards. Commuting SUCKS and makes a currently barely tolerable job unreasonable.

 

[KCFlyer]

Bus - seems the the philosophy is shared by the other airlines as well. So you are suggesting that Southwest "right this wrong" with their FA's? Sorry, but if one chooses to follow a career path, and they find the prospect of commuting to be problematic, the time to 'correct' that situation is at the time of hire...decline the job. Waiting 10,12, or 15 years to begin complaining about the commute is a bit late.

 

[Busdrvr]

Bus - seems the the philosophy is shared by the other airlines as well. So you are suggesting that Southwest "right this wrong" with their FA's? Sorry, but if one chooses to follow a career path, and they find the prospect of commuting to be problematic, the time to 'correct' that situation is at the time of hire...decline the job. Waiting 10,12, or 15 years to begin complaining about the commute is a bit late.

Nope, the time to fix the wrongs is right now, when the contract is open. Some folks commute for an entire career. I thought it would be no problem, but within 6 months, I moved. The issue is not the commute, the issue is folks quoting the poverty rate of for LA (lower alabama) and trying to apply those standards to someone based in one of the most expensive locations in america. Then you say "well you don't have to live there". True, but then a realistic evaluation of the compensation package MUST include the COSTS of commuting if you are going to trumpet the cost SAVINGS of living in the middle of windblown Kansas.

 

[wrx]

Bus,

I don't think KC Flyer works for an airline. If he/she does then they're not a crewmember. We the people of the airline industry talk a foreign language to the outside world. Some people will never understand the way of life for airline crewmembers. It's getting really windy in here. Could that be a Tornado touching down in Kansas?

I wish the best to all the SWA F/A's on their contract negotiations. Don't let what happened to us at AA, happen to you.

 

[KCFlyer]

You're right, the only connection I have to the airline industry is as a customer. For several years, I was very frequent customer. I maintained an apartment in Dallas Texas, although in the course of many of those years, I was only in it about 20% of the time. The rest of the time I spent "commuting" to my jobsite. And, FWIW, during those years I worked for a company that was "less than generous" with the paychecks.

As I got older, and the travel got old, I opted for a job where travel wasn't required as much. I cut it to about 40%. Today, most of my travel is leisure. While I could make several thousand dollars a year more if I took a job that required travel, I found the time at home to be worth much more, so I took the job I have.

You don't have to work for an airline to understand the hardships of being on the road. Many of your customers are on the road as much, if not more, than you are.

 

[JS]

Flight Attendants should start out at least with $35,000 per year, if not more. We're safety professionals just like Firefighters and Police Officers. We actually now have one of the most dangerous jobs in the nation!!

I would just love to see the source for your statement that the job of a flight attendant is more dangerous than that of a police officer or firefighter.

 

[Fly]

Flight Attendants should start out at least with $35,000 per year, if not more. We're safety professionals just like Firefighters and Police Officers. We actually now have one of the most dangerous jobs in the nation!!

I would just love to see the source for your statement that the job of a flight attendant is more dangerous than that of a police officer or firefighter.

It's dangerous????!!!!!????? Geez, I did it for the glamour..... rut roh!

IMHO, I think it's the easiest job in the world, and I love it! But that's just me

 

[wnfan37]

Don't let what happened to us at AA, happen to you.

what, almost going bankrupt?

 

[wnfan37]

Keep in mind we're safety professionals trained to save lives, evacuate a plane in under 90 seconds (regardless of the size), handle aggressive passengers and now keeping an eye out for the safety and security of the plane.

The lifeguard at the community pool saves lives - don't think he's making too much.
And, the local crossing guard at my kid's day care is a "safety professional" - maybe they could get $50K too.

 

[SWAFA30]

The lifeguard at the community pool saves lives - don't think he's making too much.
And, the local crossing guard at my kid's day care is a "safety professional" - maybe they could get $50K too.

If I had a kid I'd want the very best walking them across the street or pulling them out the deep end of a swimming pool and if it takes $50k to get the best so be it. If they are willing to work for a lesser wage, so be it, but if they feel they deserve more, they are certainly free to try to bargain for it or move on to greener pastures


Putting a dollar figure on a specific job based on it's perceived value is opening Pandora's Box.

Who contributes more to society? Based on their salaries surely Pro Basketball Players and Movie Stars, right? They make millions of dollars a year surely they must contribute more than brain surgeons, ICU nurses, oncologist, firefighters, EMTs, police officers and inner city school teachers...right? Julia Robert's work in 'Erin Brokovich' surely made the world a better place than Salk's work on the polio vaccine or the firefighters who ran into the twin towers on 9/11? Any reasonable person would agree that a skilled brain surgeon who saves lives has more to offer of "value" than an professional athlete. Yet, a reasonable person can also understand that a successful movie star or pro baseketball player generates billions of dollars for their respective employers over the course of their careers, it is their "talent" and skill that "put the asses in the seats" and as such they deserve a piece of the action.

Let's apply that same logic to the current situation with WN and their flight attendants. We could spend all day trying to justify why we should receive pay raises based solely on the merits of our job description. We could go on and on about the initial and recurrent training, the ability to render first-aid, the new reality of cabin security in this age of terrorism and ultimately the willingness to open the door to a burning aircraft and say "After you sir, no really, you go first." The truth is that there will always be those who feel that our job is just not that importand they are entitled to their opinions and ultimately, that is not what this is about. This is about wages that recognize the contribution a work group makes to the success of a company.

Other carriers may be broke. SWA is not. During arguably the worst downturn in commercial air travel in recent history, SWA's mangers and employees, flight attendants included, stayed focused, worked hard and miraculously kept their company profitable. Now, all we are asking is for Southwest to share those profits with the people who helped generate them.

 

[wrx]

SWAFA30,

People who are not in this industry will never understand our deal. You guys at SWA need to get the top pay in the industry. SWA is making money and the f/a's deserve a piece of that pie! Everytime a f/a group gets to the top in pay, it sets the bar that much higher for the next f/a group. Go out and get what you deserve, an industry leading contract!

 

[KCFlyer]

SWAFA30,

People who are not in this industry will never understand our deal. You guys at SWA need to get the top pay in the industry. SWA is making money and the f/a's deserve a piece of that pie! Everytime a f/a group gets to the top in pay, it sets the bar that much higher for the next f/a group. Go out and get what you deserve, an industry leading contract!

In other words, your words are pretty hollow...bottom line, you could care less about SWA flight attendants...you are only concerned that the bar is set high enough so that when YOUR negotiations reopen, you can point to the "low cost" airline and demand more. To the Southwest FA's - settle on a contract that is fair to you and your company. Chances are good it will be "industry leading", especially for any FA's who were hired on 9/10/01 and still have a job.

 

[wnfan37]

SWAFA30,

People who are not in this industry will never understand our deal. You guys at SWA need to get the top pay in the industry. SWA is making money and the f/a's deserve a piece of that pie! Everytime a f/a group gets to the top in pay, it sets the bar that much higher for the next f/a group. Go out and get what you deserve, an industry leading contract!

Your "deal" is that first you are not a WN employee, so thanks for playing. Go fuel the fire on your AA site - maybe your industry leading contract babble will work there, although seems like money is tough there too. So, think it was good for United to reap the benefits of industry leading pay only to land later bankrupt? Pay the F/A's what's fair, period. Cut the industry leading crap.

 

[wnfan37]

If they are willing to work for a lesser wage, so be it, but if they feel they deserve more, they are certainly free to try to bargain for it or move on to greener pastures

a good post, and bottom line for me: negotiate in good faith, be open to something less than industry leading, and if greener F/A pastures are out there (which I can't seem to think of any, except Delta who has the luxury of not having an F/A union.. and look how well they are paid!) then so be it. I mean come on, I'd like to get a raise at my job - but asking for an "industry leading" raise is a bit much. I work hard too, you know.

 

[wrx]

In other words, your words are pretty hollow...bottom line, you could care less about SWA flight attendants...you are only concerned that the bar is set high enough so that when YOUR negotiations reopen, you can point to the "low cost" airline and demand more. To the Southwest FA's - settle on a contract that is fair to you and your company. Chances are good it will be "industry leading", especially for any FA's who were hired on 9/10/01 and still have a job.

KC,

Please show me in my post at what point I said "I couldn't care less about the SWA f/a's." See just like I said, people not in this industry will never know how it works. If SWA gets the industry leading contract, that's great. Then the bar has been raised for the next group to top it. This is how it has always worked and it always will.

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth!! You already admitted you don't work in this industry. When you do get a job in the airline industry, then you will know how everything works.

It's getting windy in here again. It seems a tornado is coming through KC again!