Swa To Get Mediation In F/a Negotiations
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KCFlyer
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Leeme give this a shot...AA pilots got a good contract. Then United pilots want to top that, then Delta pilots want to top that. Then...AA pilots have to give back...then UAL pilots have to give back...and Delta pilots have been asked to give back. Sounds like a winning program so far, huh?
Hypotetical situation for you wrx...let's say your airlines contract comes up for renewal, but your airline is still showing a loss. Will you seek something to "raise the bar" for the UAL flight attendants base on what the Southwest FA's have, or will you say "Gosh, we're still losing money....what say we just go for a little increase over what we've got. " Is that hell I see freezing over?
Again...one doesn't have to work for an airline to understand what it's like to live on the road - a good chunk of the folks flying on your airline can tell you EXACTLY what it's like.
KC,
You still don't understand how it works. I'm talking about getting a better contract and you're talking about concessions. I don't care how bad an airline in loosing money when it comes time to negotiate a new contract. The CEO's are making millions and we the people who make the airlines operate day in and day out are taking paycuts, subject to furloughs and taking medical cuts. While the CEO's are buying new houses and living the high life.
You mentioned AA, UAL and DL pilots taking paycuts. It's up to each work group to give it up. This is what is called a VOTE! The AA flight attendants said NO to concessions and our union the APFA sold us out and reopened the voting for an extra day.
I hope the SWA f/a's get an industry leading contract with a huge pay increase. They deserve it and should get it. If it means to go out and STRIKE to do it, then so be it.
You have no idea how this industry operates when it comes to union contracts. Every airline employee will agree with me on this point. When one work group at a carrier gets an industry leading contract, that sets the bar for the next group to top it.
This all coming from the person who really thinks they can live on $9,000 per month in Manhattan, NY., that is the best joke I have heard all year!!
You still don't understand how it works. I'm talking about getting a better contract and you're talking about concessions. I don't care how bad an airline in loosing money when it comes time to negotiate a new contract. The CEO's are making millions and we the people who make the airlines operate day in and day out are taking paycuts, subject to furloughs and taking medical cuts. While the CEO's are buying new houses and living the high life.
You mentioned AA, UAL and DL pilots taking paycuts. It's up to each work group to give it up. This is what is called a VOTE! The AA flight attendants said NO to concessions and our union the APFA sold us out and reopened the voting for an extra day.
I hope the SWA f/a's get an industry leading contract with a huge pay increase. They deserve it and should get it. If it means to go out and STRIKE to do it, then so be it.
You have no idea how this industry operates when it comes to union contracts. Every airline employee will agree with me on this point. When one work group at a carrier gets an industry leading contract, that sets the bar for the next group to top it.
This all coming from the person who really thinks they can live on $9,000 per month in Manhattan, NY., that is the best joke I have heard all year!!
millions of dollars? sorry man, not at SWA - have you seen Colleen's latest sweat suit? Like I said, your industry leading stuff is great for almost bankrupt AA and bankrupt UA. give the millions of dollars speech to your colleages at AA or hope over and mention Steven Wolfe at the US forum. Then you may get the reaction you are looking for.lwrx said:
thanks for at least tyrying to feed the fire. good thing most at SWA aren't quite as die hard as you. or, do you enjoy watching companies go out of business? Did you work at Eastern before?
Like I have said in my previous posts, I AM a SWA F/A and I know what it is like to be online and try and make it by...
Please take a look at Mr Parkers pay increase chart!
I have been here 2 years but when the contract came up for negotiations I was only in my 2nd 6 monthes there for look under the May 31, 2001 2nd 6 month line, in 2008 I will be here 7 years...now look down at the person that has been here 7 years as of May 31, 2001. The same amount of time right?? 7 years
I will only be making approx 1.50 more than that f/a in six years!! But inflation is going to go up much more...
And how is a single parent supposed to make it by on 16,000.00 a year and raise a family...
Lets get back to the real topic!!
Miss Goose!!
Please take a look at Mr Parkers pay increase chart!
I have been here 2 years but when the contract came up for negotiations I was only in my 2nd 6 monthes there for look under the May 31, 2001 2nd 6 month line, in 2008 I will be here 7 years...now look down at the person that has been here 7 years as of May 31, 2001. The same amount of time right?? 7 years
I will only be making approx 1.50 more than that f/a in six years!! But inflation is going to go up much more...
And how is a single parent supposed to make it by on 16,000.00 a year and raise a family...
Lets get back to the real topic!!
Miss Goose!!
KCFlyer
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But I do understand. I believe I heard mechanics over at UAL demand an "industry leading contract" while their company was losing money big time. They got it...and they gave it back. That's a helluva way to live. And without justifying CEO pay, because it IS out of control, try taking all the CEO's salary, bonus and bene's all the way to zero, with the stipulation that all the savings must be distributed to the employees. You think it's hard living in Manhattan for $9,000 a month, will the extra $150 a year you get from the windfall of the CEO giving it up make you live any more comfortably.
And if the union stood pat, how many more FA's would the airline layoff to reach their desired cost savings goal? Your union didn't sell you out...your union is first and foremost a business that needs income and where does a union get it's income? From members. The more members, the more income. I suppose they could stand firm on concessions, let the airline layoff your brothers and sisters, and then implement an increase in monthly dues to maintain the income level.
Note to SWA FA's - that word STRIKE impacts your customers, who won't join in a letter writing campaign to headquarters telling them to raise your pay. It WILL result in a lot of customers being pissed off at FA's and blaming THEM, not the airline, for missing their important meeting. Sort of like CHAOS(tm) - You think you're hurting the airline, and you are, but you're hurting yourselves more. Think "
summer from hell" here.
And you have no idea how business operates - period. What good is an "industry leading contract" if your company does not have the income to provide it? Let me give you an example...once upon a time there was a little airline called TWA, they were always referred to as "financially troubled TWA". Their mechanics went into negotiations for a better contract. The company offered a "best and final offer", which they rejected. So the company gave in, granted the contract, and in less than two years became a part of American Airlines, where everyone lived happily ever after...right? That's why I say I can hear hell freezing over - if SWA gets a contract that surpasses EVERY airline in the industy, and your airline is still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy when your contract comes due, how can you justify your company giving you an "industry leading contract" to "set a new bar" for everyone else? Bear in mind that even if the top 15 executives decided to take zip, zero, nada in income, it would barely dent the losses your airline is experiencing.
KCFlyer
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I guess a better question would be, what's a single parent doing taking a job that involves leaving town for days at a time?missgoose said:And how is a single parent supposed to make it by on 16,000.00 a year and raise a family...
Lets get back to the real topic!!
Miss Goose!!
What makes you ASSUME she took the job as a single parent? Could she have possibly BECOME a single parent when some loser guy didn't step up to the plate? Are you implying that a female should abort her babies if the men don't do their part or should she quit her job and live off the dole and become part of the "poverty level" victims you speak so often about?
And the REAL question to us all is: Why does some man from the midwest, with no airline affiliation, have 1,184 posts on an aviation board? Things that make you go hmmmmmm. :blink:
i do work in the airline industry, and i can say KC's posts are much more enlightening than the rest of the banter i've seen on this topic. you don't have to be in this business to know how a SUCCESSFUL business can be run. it's really not rocket science.Fly said:
hey there... not to run a play on words, but the "golden" goose probably belongs to the likes of Gordon at CO, Leo at DL, Dave at US, etc... Like I said, SWA executives could make lots more somewhere else. Of course, Colleen couldn't keep wearing what she does..!missgoose said:
KCFlyer
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Maybe it's the chauvinist in me, but if it were my kid, and I had a job that kept me out of town a good portion of the time, and my lowlife scumbag good for nothing MAN (do I detect issues there??? I seem to recall that you took me to task for a response of mine about an 80 year old FA) I was married to left me, I'd start looking for a different job pretty darn quick. My kids are worth more to me than a $16K a year job.Fly said:
Sorry if you feel I'm not qualified to express my opinion on an aviation message board simply because I do not work for an airline. Seems to me a lot of your leaders worked with rental cars company, and one of the most visionary leaders that the industry had ever known (Robert Crandall) came from Hallmark cards.
This issue of deciding how much Southwest flight attendants should make would be a lot easier if you let the labor market do its job. The labor market matches up wages that businesses can afford with wages that people are willing to work for. It's like magic!
Unions were needed when Big Business had a monopoly on the demand side of labor. The labor market does not work very well when there is a monopoly on labor (supply or demand). Before unions were granted legal status, there were all kinds of problems -- company script, abuse of employees, etc.
Today, in what few unionized industries are left, organized labor has a monopoly on the supply of labor. Again, the labor market does not work very well with a monopoly. Problems include business stagnation, job loss, bankruptcy, overseas employment, etc.
Considering the labor laws we now have, as long an industry is not a monopoly (which basically doesn't exist due to the anti-trust laws), there is no need for a union. This would eliminate long, drawn-out negotiations, lock-outs and strikes.
Every so often I write on this board that private-sector unions are relics of the past, and every time the response is an emotional outburst. "You don't know what's it like", "everyone would be poor", blah blah blah.
If anyone can demonstrate how private-sector unions are good, I'm all ears.
Unions were needed when Big Business had a monopoly on the demand side of labor. The labor market does not work very well when there is a monopoly on labor (supply or demand). Before unions were granted legal status, there were all kinds of problems -- company script, abuse of employees, etc.
Today, in what few unionized industries are left, organized labor has a monopoly on the supply of labor. Again, the labor market does not work very well with a monopoly. Problems include business stagnation, job loss, bankruptcy, overseas employment, etc.
Considering the labor laws we now have, as long an industry is not a monopoly (which basically doesn't exist due to the anti-trust laws), there is no need for a union. This would eliminate long, drawn-out negotiations, lock-outs and strikes.
Every so often I write on this board that private-sector unions are relics of the past, and every time the response is an emotional outburst. "You don't know what's it like", "everyone would be poor", blah blah blah.
If anyone can demonstrate how private-sector unions are good, I'm all ears.
