Swa To Get Mediation In F/a Negotiations

[KCFlyer]

I have figured your deal out. No, you don't work in the airline industry. Yes, you're an outsider looking in. You have invested some money into SWA and don't want you stock to take a dive if they get an industry leading contract. This is called being selfish! If it wasn't for the SWA employees, your stocks wouldn't be worth anything!

Have you found your Ruby Red Slippers? While you're in Kansas say hi to Toto for me.

On this point you couldn't be more wrong. The employees of Southwest airlines are precisely the reason WHY I bought stock in this company many years ago. You see, it's my opinion that if an employee likes the company that they work for...that they feel that the managment of their company really does have the interest of the employees at heart...then they will do everything in their power to insure that my stock maintains it's value and grows. I've met a few folks at the Dallas Headquarters. I usually have lunch with them during Thanksgiving week. The cafeteria at LUV overlooks the Love field and the terminal. Every one of those HQ guys and gals that I have met point over to that terminal and says "Those are the people that make this airline. I'm only here to support them." And they're right. I wonder if many at the airline that's headquarters are on Amon Carter Blvd say the same things about THEIR employees? I'll give you a hint - it shows.

The biggest compliment I can pay the SWA employees as a stockholder is that they recognize that their customer has a value. Because it's their customers, you know, those of us who don't work in the industry but do use it, that is responsible for the income that makes it all possible for them. So you don't hear words like CHAOS(tm) tossed about over there. I assure you that when you do, I'll be a former shareholder, but I'll still thank them for the years of profit.

Airline stocks have always been pretty much a yo-yo affair. Southwest stock hasn't been that much of a wild ride. Yep, I don't work in the industry, but I do talk with many airline employees. At LUV, I have met several...from executives to rampers. And I'm impressed by every one of them.

Think what you want..it's a free country. But I'll tell you that the SWA employees that I have met will tell you that you're dead wrong about me on this one.

BTW...for future reference...when your plane touches down, you're in Missouri, not Kansas. It's okay...the "Kansas" part of Kansas City throws a lot of people.

 

[Elivs Lives]

BTW...for future reference...when your plane touches down, you're in Missouri, not Kansas. It's okay...the "Kansas" part of Kansas City throws a lot of people.

That's funny. Virginia City is in Nevada, Kansas City is in Missouri, there are no Gardens in Garden City and no Liberals in Liberal, Kansas.

This has been a very intersting thread... it's covered everything from tipping van drivers (looks like JS is tighter than two coats of paint, who must eat paint to live on $10 a day) to real estate deals on the Upper East Side.

The bottom line, IMHO, is that SWA F/A's are the arguably the hardest working in the business. It's not that they "deserve" a significant pay raise, but that they have earned it. I thought it funny that it was argued that 401k match was better than hard pay. How much does one invest in a 410k if one must subsidize one's income with section 8 housing and food stamps? If the company doesn't want to invest in quality employees (by having worthwhile compensation packages), all the job security in the world is not going to matter one iota. The company will begin to appeal to those on parole, looking for a second job with benefits to offset their meth labs, and those terminated from "In and out Burger." A contract with labor is nothing more than an investment in the quality of people you wish to run your company. I have seen some truly wonderful Flight Attendants solve some tremendous problems with tact, maturity, and common sense. These are quality people that keep SWA's vaunted "Customer Satisfaction" at the top of the heap. I fear for the future if the company doesn't wish to invest a miniscule fraction of their 2.5 BILLION in cash on hand on retaining and hiring the best damned Flight Attendants in the world.

They don't deserve a raise. They've already EARNED it.

 

[KCFlyer]

Elvis,

with all due respect, I remember reading about a year before U walked into bankruptcy court that they had over $2 Billion in cash on hand. It didn't take them very far. I wouldn't use cash on hand as a guideline for much, unless you care to look at what happened at U after the $2 billion ran out.

 

[Busdrvr]

Die thread, DDDIIIIEEEEEE!!!!!!! :blink:

 

[wrx]

KC,

You really need to read a post before you respond to it. I see why you have such a hard time with airline matters.

The reason why us folks on Amon Carter Blvd are so P.O. all the time, it's the way management treats us!! You should already know that since you're Mr/Ms. Airline.

I'm done with you on this thread, because you will never get a clue on how this industry operates. If I need information on how to grow corn or prepare for a tornado, I will contact you.

 

[SWAFA30]

with all due respect, I remember reading about a year before U walked into bankruptcy court that they had over $2 Billion in cash on hand. It didn't take them very far. I wouldn't use cash on hand as a guideline for much, unless you care to look at what happened at U after the $2 billion ran out.

Indeed $2 billion won't take you very far if you are hemorrhagging cash at a phenomonal burn rate. Currently SWA is not in the same fiscal postion as UA at the time of their bankruptcy filing. The bookings, load factors, and economic outlook make it reasonable to assume that SWA will be able to remain profitable well into the forseeable future.

.The employees of Southwest airlines are precisely the reason WHY I bought stock in this company many years ago. You see, it's my opinion that if an employee likes the company that they work for...that they feel that the managment of their company really does have the interest of the employees at heart...then they will do everything in their power to insure that my stock maintains it's value and grows. I've met a few folks at the Dallas Headquarters. I usually have lunch with them during Thanksgiving week. The cafeteria at LUV overlooks the Love field and the terminal. Every one of those HQ guys and gals that I have met point over to that terminal and says "Those are the people that make this airline. I'm only here to support them." And they're right. I wonder if many at the airline that's headquarters are on Amon Carter Blvd say the same things about THEIR employees? I'll give you a hint - it shows.

Sadly, in many instances the LUV does not flow as strongly the further you get from the big "D". Often it seems that those of us that work outside of HDQ and DAL, work for a completely different company. The plain unvarnished truth is that SWA has grown at a phenomonal rate over the past decade and in many ways we have become a victim of our own success. In the old days the employees had to pull together as SWA was literally fighting for it's survival. SWA did not just survive, it prospered but try as you might...you can't treat close to 40,000 employees as family. The sheer size of the company though has made the culture that defined it almost impossible to maintain. We have moved beyond Christmas and Birthday Cards, while I appreciate the gesture, a mass mailed card, with a computer generated label( printed last name first no less) that is identical the one my 39, 999 co-workers received feels a tad hollow as a gesture of LUV.

Such expressions of LUV came about in the early years for a two-fold reason...one, in the beginning SWA really was a tight-knit family and two, they were struggling to stay in business and simply had nothing else to offer. This is no longer the case. It is easy to pay lip service to your employees to go before the cameras and profess your depth of feeling for the people who work for you but lip service and Birthday Cards are relatively cheap. If you truly LUV and value your employees you give them the ability to care for themselves and their families. You recognize their hard work and share the wealth that everyone has helped to earn. The time has come for the support from HDQ for the frontline to take the form of reasonable increases in hard pay. Frankly, warm feelings and good wishes don't help keep my lights on.

Many feel that increased wages for my and other work groups will have a negative impact on our ability to offer a consistent product, turn a profit, and ultimately the price of our stock....
The same thing can be said of 7,200 angry, "underpaid" flight attendants.
We will continue to come to work everyday but we will have received the message, loud and clear that our willingness to go the extra mile for our Customers is worthless to our company and it is only a matter of time before that trickles down to how we do our jobs.SWA is no longer the only discount game in town. JetBlue has newer planes, Song has( better) food. All SWA has to offer is friendly employees. The company may in the end win this battle but if the spirit of my workgroup is broken in the process, SWA may eventually lose the war.

 

[Elivs Lives]

Elvis,

with all due respect, I remember reading about a year before U walked into bankruptcy court that they had over $2 Billion in cash on hand. It didn't take them very far. I wouldn't use cash on hand as a guideline for much, unless you care to look at what happened at U after the $2 billion ran out.

I thought this thread was about SWA Flight Attendants... not USAirways. My bad. U has/had the highest cost per ASM of any US carrier right before the money got tight. I think SWA has one of the lowest if not the lowest when adjusted for stage length. It has this advantage primarily because of productive employees that go the extra mile. Loose this advantage and you'd better dump that stock of urine. I mean yours.

 

[Cart Pusher]

Why are ANY Southwest F/A's still discussing what they make with anyone here? It's nobody's business but that of the F/A's. They are the ones that have to live with whatever wage they negotiate and it's not the business of WNfan37 or KC Flyer to tell you what you are worth or how to negotiate. Just let this topic die and they can read it in the news like everyone else. These folks are obviously NEVER going to understand why you feel you deserve a good wage for what you do.

 

[KCFlyer]

These folks are obviously NEVER going to understand why you feel you deserve a good wage for what you do.

Final post from me. But in nine pages, I am kind of surprised that I am being raked over the coals so hard, especially when I have not posted that LUV FA's should suffer for the benefit of the company and my stock price...when I have posted that I support a raise for them... and suggest that they focus on that wage and not on issues like cleaning the plane and ground time. But especially since I never responded to any of the posts (from employees of other airlines, BTW) what an FA should be "worth". If one were to read my posts, I honestly believe that they would see that I am very much "pro-FA". But because I also suggest that look at the whole package, I am somehow supporting the slave labor market.

I post "opinion", although some seem to feel that any opinion that comes from someone outside the airline industry is not valid, even though it is perhaps more balanced than that of managment or employee. But I appreciate the responses, even the smart assed responses. At least it causes some discussion (even way off topic discussion). It's sort of like listening to Rush Limbaugh...face it, which calls are more entertaining - the ones who disagree with the mighty Rush, or the ones who start with "Megadittoes Rush"? Because, IMHO, without the "opinion" of some of us, these boards could become nothing more than a good old boys "Me too" forum.

Good luck, LUV FA's. You do a great job and you deserve, and IMHO, will get, a decent raise.

That's it - feel free to slam me, slam Kansas and slam all non airline employees. I'm out of this thread.

 

[wnfan37]

They are the ones that have to live with whatever wage they negotiate and it's not the business of WNfan37 or KC Flyer to tell you what you are worth or how to negotiate.

easy tiger. just an opinion... i'm sure all the F/A's are smart enough to consider all the sides before making a decision. healthy debate is taking a back seat to mud-slinging on this post, compliments of some.

 

[orangeman]

ToAll, I have not posted previously under this username. I have had password email etc. difficulties. I hope this thread is dead, yet I need to comment. With regards to getting paid to "tidy" the a/c; I am quite sure this has been an issue in the media because it is a simple point that regular sustomers can identify with. Our pay is not by flight hour, yet by "trip " pay. It can be very confusing and the N/T is tyring to combine many contractual issues for the knowledge of the general flying public. A raise is more important than "paid ground time". Should not any job address raises to atleast offset inflation? I choose not to give out info as those in the need to know, can get it! I have been a F/A for SWA for 13+ years and I make less than someone who had the same years of service 15 years ago. Is this right with a company that continues to grow and hire? I don't think so. Have any of you heard of inflation? The last 2 contracts for WN F/A's have been horrible and to try to make up what has already been lost is only fair!

Just being "On the Road" does not give you knowledge of an airline crewmwmber!
:angry:

 

[Bear96]

Just being "On the Road" does not give you knowledge of an airline crewmwmber!

How true...

It always amuses me to see people who think they travel a lot imply that because they have flown on a commercial airline, they are suddenly experts in the ins and outs and nuances of an entire industry and all of its problems.

I go grocery shopping and eat out about once a week. Yet I wouldn't even pretend to be an expert on the grocery or restaurant industries. And, strangely, I don't feel the need to put down or denigrate the cashiers or wait staff I interact with and make sure they know how greedy or overpaid they are or how good they have it.

And if I don't like the service I am receiving at that restaurant or store, or if I think the prices are too high, I will simply take my business elsewhere. It may be a bit more inconvenient to not go to the closest store. (To analogize this to the airline passenger point-of-view, to not fly US if I live in PIT or to avoid AA if I live in DFW may not be convenient-- using other carriers will involve making a connection.). But there are choices and other options out there.

 

[orangeman]

First off, I would have liked to have a private conv. with the person who addressed me privately. Unfortunately i am new to navigating within this group and I lost that post. I have all kinds of info that was provided to myself and the rest of my union members. All of which debunk the misinformation sent out by management. I choose not to have any type of negotiations on this forum. I wil say this; The WN F/A's Union proposal would not change the cost per ASM ranking among major carriers. Yes, it would rise, but it would not put SWA ahead of anyone that already exceeds us! The F/A labor cost is only higher than HP(America West) among the Majors. My Negotiating Team speaks for me and has for almost 18 months.

With regards to "Life on the road", please think of being on your feet w/out a break for 10+ hours prior to your hotel stay! I get business customers that quite often say to me "I bet I fly as much as you do". Fifteen plus flights per week; I don't think so! That is just an average. If anyone wants to know the real "skinny" I'll chat. Otherwise, if you haven't walked in my shoes, don't comment on what i am worth. Your opinions are always welcome but don't compare your travel to mine!
Chris