SW/Airtran Seniority

Barrister

Veteran
Feb 22, 2009
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Hot off the presses. Looks like the proposal is this. No. 1 AT guy merges around 1600 on SW list. Slotted about 5-1. 10 year fence around ATL. Apparently management made a presentation to both merger committees that was almost an outright threat. Get this done or else. Moving target but typical AT
pilot lost about 22%. SW has 5800 pilots and AT about 1700.

Fire away.

NICDOA
NPJB
 
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Hot off the presses. Looks like the proposal is this. No. 1 AT guy merges around 1600 on SW list. Sloted
about 5-1. 10 year fence around ATL. Apparently management made a presentation to both
merger committes that was almost an outright threat. Get this done or else. Moving target but typical AT
pilot lost about 22%. SW has 5800 pilots and AT about 1700.

Fire away.

NICDOA
NPJB

Also found out that the top AT guy was placed below the bottom Muse Air guy who is now a Captain......whatever that means.

NICDOA
NPJB
 
Get this done or else? That's a funny one. They'll get it done all in due time.
 
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If you look at the history of Muse Air, it stopped existing in 1987. Valuejet was formed in 1992. Are you implying that the number 1 pilot at Airtran should be placed above the Muse Air guy?

I think it was the last Morris Air guy and I have no idea what that means!!!

NICDOA
NPJB
 
BS! It is better for the company to have this drag out as long as possible. The longer that don't have to pay the 30-40% pay raise to the AirTran employees, the better. Also, the ratio is about 4:1 SWA:AirTran. If you start AT at the 1600 level, it would change the ratio to 3:1 for an even merge. Just wait until the actual information is released before you get all spooled up about some BS that some uninformed knucklehead is spewing.
 
BS! It is better for the company to have this drag out as long as possible. The longer that don't have to pay the 30-40% pay raise to the AirTran employees, the better. Also, the ratio is about 4:1 SWA:AirTran. If you start AT at the 1600 level, it would change the ratio to 3:1 for an even merge. Just wait until the actual information is released before you get all spooled up about some BS that some uninformed knucklehead is spewing.
The Better for who, You?
Why is that? So FL Crew can get screwed? Are you sweating getting someone in front of you on the Seniority List? Wow, you show the LUV. Yanno, I don't give a flying leap where I land as long as it is on my feet and I am employed. I guess it's all about you! You think this should drag out for the better of who? YOU or WN? Obviously YOU or you would not have made your claim. Maybe you will be the next person with a 'Sticky Mic' and spew'!
 
BS! It is better for the company to have this drag out as long as possible. The longer that don't have to pay the 30-40% pay raise to the AirTran employees, the better. Also, the ratio is about 4:1 SWA:AirTran. If you start AT at the 1600 level, it would change the ratio to 3:1 for an even merge. Just wait until the actual information is released before you get all spooled up about some BS that some uninformed knucklehead is spewing.
Gary Kelly has (according to someone I know who was in a negotiating session with him last week) stated that he wants the seniority lists merged NOW so that money can begin to be made, from the combined companies, very soon. Barring a quick deal, a not so veiled threat was made that pilot furloughs (from the AirTran side only) as well as getting rid of a certain AirTran not-so-common fleet type would/could begin. Kelly is obviously aware of the percent increase in pilot pay AirTran pilots would receive. And yet, according to him, there's lots of money to be made and he wants to make it immediately, through a quick merging of the lists. The proposed SLI wasn't even presented by SWAPA; it came from SW management, along with the threat from SW management. Doesn't sound like they want to drag anything out to me.
 
The Better for who, You?
Why is that? So FL Crew can get screwed? Are you sweating getting someone in front of you on the Seniority List? Wow, you show the LUV. Yanno, I don't give a flying leap where I land as long as it is on my feet and I am employed. I guess it's all about you! You think this should drag out for the better of who? YOU or WN? Obviously YOU or you would not have made your claim. Maybe you will be the next person with a 'Sticky Mic' and spew'!


I could be wrong but I don't think that is what was said. I think I fly shamu was saying the initial 'report' was BS...the whole get this done now....because it would seem it would be better for the company to drag it out. I don't think I fly shamu was expressing that as a personal opinion, just using that as an example as to why I fly shamu thinks the information as a whole is incorrect. Basically when I read it all I see I fly shamu as saying is wait till the official information comes out before everyone gets worked up.
 
Gary Kelly has (according to someone I know who was in a negotiating session with him last week) stated that he wants the seniority lists merged NOW so that money can begin to be made, from the combined companies, very soon. Barring a quick deal, a not so veiled threat was made that pilot furloughs (from the AirTran side only) as well as getting rid of a certain AirTran not-so-common fleet type would/could begin. Kelly is obviously aware of the percent increase in pilot pay AirTran pilots would receive. And yet, according to him, there's lots of money to be made and he wants to make it immediately, through a quick merging of the lists. The proposed SLI wasn't even presented by SWAPA; it came from SW management, along with the threat from SW management. Doesn't sound like they want to drag anything out to me.


I don't buy it, they have made it perferctly clear that they need all the aircraft including the the not-so-common fleet type, as well as all the flight crews (plus more) to fullfill the growth plans they have. I understand tensions are high under the circumstances and speculation is rampant as are rumors, but I really believe all these so called reports from so called reliable sources are exaggerated from being passed from person to person or just pure speculation. I'm sure they want the integration to be smooth and possibly even as quick as possible (and maybe there is some leaning on the unions to get it done) but I do not believe jobs are being threatened.....for either side.
 
I don't buy it, they have made it perferctly clear that they need all the aircraft including the the not-so-common fleet type, as well as all the flight crews (plus more) to fullfill the growth plans they have. I understand tensions are high under the circumstances and speculation is rampant as are rumors, but I really believe all these so called reports from so called reliable sources are exaggerated from being passed from person to person or just pure speculation. I'm sure they want the integration to be smooth and possibly even as quick as possible (and maybe there is some leaning on the unions to get it done) but I do not believe jobs are being threatened.....for either side.
I agree that the plan is to keep the 717. But the plan is not to have SLI negotiations drag out while all the "synergies" (or whatever fancy term one might choose to mean "the ability to make more money with the merger complete") are not realized. I don't take what I heard was the "threat" as anything personal. My take is that what GK was saying is "If its going to take a long time to get this done, we've got to start cutting costs, and here's how we"re going to do it". He has a responsibility to SW employees before AirTran employees, and he has a responsibility to the company's financial well-being overall. While the original plan was to keep all AirTran employees and the 717, when things change like sustained high fuel prices or a longer than planned SLI negotiation, then the plan could change. If I were GK, it would be my job to do/say the same thing.
 
I don't buy it, they have made it perferctly clear that they need all the aircraft including the the not-so-common fleet type, as well as all the flight crews (plus more) to fullfill the growth plans they have. I understand tensions are high under the circumstances and speculation is rampant as are rumors, but I really believe all these so called reports from so called reliable sources are exaggerated from being passed from person to person or just pure speculation. I'm sure they want the integration to be smooth and possibly even as quick as possible (and maybe there is some leaning on the unions to get it done) but I do not believe jobs are being threatened.....for either side.


It makes perfect sense to me.. The company (regardless of what they've been talking about till this point) is free to axe and liquidate any and all AirTran assets as they wish, and nobody is entitled to anything from the AirTran side of things (remember Frontier?). In all likelihood, many of AirTran's 1-2 flight per day cities are already as good as gone as things stand now. Luckily for everyone, those places use contracted workers to begin with (which is another nail in the coffin because Southwest doesn't do that). Clearly Gary Kelly wants to send a message to the rest of the industry and to critics by making this integration happen at a record pace. It's really the only thing the competition could hope for because god forbid this merger proceeds quickly, efficiently, and yields all of the synergistic benefits the Southwest execs think it will, the other carriers are going to have a real problem on their hands as far as the domestic market is concerned. The classic quagmire in ALL of these mergers are pilot integration issues. I could totally see Southwest management playing their hand and making an expedited agreement attractive to both sides in the way of a humbling reminder of exactly what their obligations are to the AirTran pilots. It's smart business if you ask me.

Also, read between the lines because only a week ago Gary Kelly was quoted as saying that many of AirTran's routes were not profitable and would be "evaluated". That axe blade is being polished as we speak. When the new combined schedule is released pretty soon, it's going to be a much leaner AirTran I'm willing to bet. Less routes/flights requires less planes and less staff..
 
Gary Kelly has (according to someone I know who was in a negotiating session with him last week) stated that he wants the seniority lists merged NOW so that money can begin to be made, from the combined companies, very soon. Barring a quick deal, a not so veiled threat was made that pilot furloughs (from the AirTran side only) as well as getting rid of a certain AirTran not-so-common fleet type would/could begin. Kelly is obviously aware of the percent increase in pilot pay AirTran pilots would receive. And yet, according to him, there's lots of money to be made and he wants to make it immediately, through a quick merging of the lists. The proposed SLI wasn't even presented by SWAPA; it came from SW management, along with the threat from SW management. Doesn't sound like they want to drag anything out to me.

Which Unions was this presentation made to and the alleged threats?
 
Which Unions was this presentation made to and the alleged threats?
I'm not sure if I'm understanding your question (and therefore answering it), but a combined SLI proposal was, according to my source, presented by SW management to SWAPA and AirTran ALPA. The threat of furloughing AirTran pilots and getting rid of some/all of the 717s was made to the AirTran pilots, as I don't think the SW pilots would have seen this as a threat to them. And to reiterate, I don't think bad of GK nor can I claim that he meant what was allegedly said as a threat. If he chooses to do/say things that are in the interest of the company he runs, then that's his job. If those same things could cost me a lot of money or my job, then I'm going to see them as a threat to the well-being of me and my family, even though that may not have been his intent. I can't blame someone for doing or saying something that I would/might do if I were him.
 

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